Like going to the barber shop and looking into the mirrors on opposite walls. I'm sure my hair is already cut in that thousandth barber shop I see way in the back.
-----Original Message----- From: Adam Sando [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, February 21, 2007 3:49 PM To: hlds@list.valvesoftware.com Subject: RE: [hlds] Voice causes high ping Agreed, and as Nick pointed out, the ad is a marketing pitch by the company to lure you in. To try put it in perspective - take the new SNES emulator developed for Xbox 360. The first version ran crap because the coder has to EMULATE what the original OS and hardware is doing. In any type of hosted OS/Application model (MS VS and VMWare are hosted models) where the emulation layer sits on top of the OS, you would have to have rocks in your head to think an OS running within another OS yields better performance. Even with Hypervisor technology, you still incur a performance hit. Maybe its the secret though... maybe if I install linux, then Emulate an XP install, all my games will run better than a straight XP install. Maybe if I create a virtual linux machine under XP an then put a further emulated XP install under that, I will get even more super performance :-| Regards, Adam. -----Original Message----- From: "Jason O. Washburn" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "hlds@list.valvesoftware.com" <hlds@list.valvesoftware.com> Sent: 22-Feb-07 04:38 Subject: RE: [hlds] Voice causes high ping I was going to say the same thing. Their add doesn't mention performance just compatibility. It also says playing games not serving them. Jason -----Original Message----- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of LDuke Sent: Wednesday, February 21, 2007 9:32 AM To: hlds@list.valvesoftware.com Subject: Re: [hlds] Voice causes high ping -- [ Picked text/plain from multipart/alternative ] Yes it allows you to run games from another OS...at a loss of performance. On 2/21/07, Jason <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > http://www.transgaming.com/index.php?module=ContentExpress&func=displa > y&ceid=2&meid=-1 > > Nough said ;) > > Jason > > Adam Sando wrote: > > I've been in Virtualisation Roadmap workshops with Microsoft and > > VMWare > recently, and have touted figures of approx 10-20% Host OS overhead > for Virtual Server 2005 R2 running 1+ vm's; and 8-10% Host OS overhead > for Vi3. > > > > Both companies have stated that 1 physical will always be more > > powerful > than a host + 1 vm (comparing like-for-like hardware specs). > > > > Some of our engineers recently did a test of 1 physical 4-way > > dual-core > 8216 w/32GB RAM (local SAS disks) running Win2k3-x86, versus the same > hardware (EVA connected) running Win2k3-x64 with Virtual Server 2k5, > and a bunch of vm's running the same config as the other physical. > Well, the vm's performed horribly, even with the other physical > running a 32-bit OS. > > > > Virtualisation/emulation will only solve compatibility issues, not > performance... You're deluded to think you can get extra performance > out of a VM when the host has to do all that work anyway. > > > > Regards, > > Adam > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: "Jason O. Washburn" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > To: "hlds@list.valvesoftware.com" <hlds@list.valvesoftware.com> > > Sent: 21-Feb-07 19:40 > > Subject: RE: [hlds] Voice causes high ping > > > > Amen Brother:-) > > > > Jason > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Gigabit Nick > > Sent: Wednesday, February 21, 2007 2:48 AM > > To: hlds@list.valvesoftware.com > > Subject: RE: [hlds] Voice causes high ping > > > > > > -- > > [ Picked text/plain from multipart/alternative ] > > Emulated environments are slower. > > > > The reason; Almost any significant work done inside the emulator has > > to be translated into the host OS's API and then run by the host OS > > before it can be completed, thus adding extra steps into the > > execution process. This includes everything from thread creation and > > memory allocation through to Disk and Network IO. If you add into > > that the fact that instead of processing the needs of one OS a > > machine running an emulated system is processing the needs of two > > (the host and the emulated OS), there is no way that emulation will > > increase performance over dedicated machine of the same > > specification.I've done a lot of work with virtualisation and > > emulation and I have yet to see an emulated system run faster on the > > same hardware than it would do if running natively and that includes > > experience of VMWare, Bochs, Wine, Xen, and Parallels. The ONLY > > advantage I've seen to virtualization is a reduction in the need for > > hardware to service a dynamic need such as QA testing where you > > don't want 10 machines each with their own environment when 9 won't > > be used most of the time, having 1 machine with 10 emulated machines > > where you can swap saves real cash. > > > > It doesn't matter if the emulated machine needs to "load all the sub > > protocols and such", the host OS most will have had to already load > > them in order to offer support. > -----Original Message-----> From: > > [EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Jason> Sent: > > Tuesday, February 20, 2007 5:01 PM> To: hlds@list.valvesoftware.com> > > Subject: Re: [hlds] Voice causes high ping> > > Negative. If > > anything, the emulation increases performance due to the> fact that > > it doesn't load all the sub protocols and such. It uses less> memory > > then explorer and runs more smoothly.> > Jason> > Jason O. Washburn > > wrote:> > I would think it was the emulation also.> >> > Jason> >> > > > -----Original > > Message-----> > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Chris Bass> > > > > > Sent: Tuesday, February 20, 2007 9:59 AM> > To: > > hlds@list.valvesoftware.com> > Subject: Re: [hlds] Voice causes high > > ping> >> >> > Ummm, the emulation maybe causing issues. Try running > > ping> >> >> > it > > in Windows> > native.> >> > Jason wrote:> >> >> I'm running a 6600 > > gt with an amd althalon 64 in ubuntu 64 emulating> >> windows xp > > x64. 1 gig of ram. Its certainly poweful enough to run tfc> > >> as > > if it was a joke. I'll try messing with the update rate and cmd> >> > > rate> >>> >> [GS]Admin wrote:> >>> >>> ----- Original Message -----> > > >>> From: "chad" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>> >>> To: > > <hlds@list.valvesoftware.com>> >>> Sent: Monday, February 19, 2007 > > 7:45 PM> >>> Subject: Re: [hlds] Voice causes high ping> >>>> >>>> > > >>>> >>>> WOW, can you host stuff?> >>>>> >>>> Jason wrote:> >>>>> > > >>>>> My ISP just upgraded...I'm running a cable line to the house > > but> >>>>> fiber elsewhere. I pay for the greater upload speeds > > above 2.5> >>>>> megabits.> >>>>>> >>>>> Jason> >>>>>> >>> He "can" > > host stuff but with a residental connection it wouldn't be> >>> too > > great of pings times for people "outside" the network.But would> >>> > > probably work ok for a website with not alot of traffic.But most> > > >>> isp's like mine in their TOS say that its against the rules to > > host> >>> anything from your home connection.> >>>> >>> Now back to > > the topic.If tracert's and perfmon are showing good> >>> maybe> >>>> > > >> >> >>> it has something todo with your rates.Try turning down > > your> >>> rate,cl_updaterate,cl_cmdrate and your backup rate.Try something> >>>> > > > along> >> >>> the> >>> lines of 9999,60,40 and see if it still does > > it.If it does or> >>> doesn't adjust accordingly.> >>>> >>> Also > > have you tried messing with your audio stuff in cs?Not knowing> >>> > > what hardware you have kinda makes this fishing in an ocean for the> > > >>> lockness monster.BUT if you have built on board audio I do know > > at> >>> times it can do this if your cpu is overloaded.Say > > HLSW,STEAM and a> >>> messenger running on a 1.3 thunderbird with > > built on audio has> >>> caused the same issues in the past> >>> with > > me.If you have an x-fi card or something to that sort try> >>> > > updating the> >>> drivers to the newest latest and greatest. And one > > last thing, if> its> >>> x64 XP> >>> or Vista I know alot of people > > have been having sound "issues"> >>> > > especially> >>> with older games or hardware that's only 50%(beta > > drivers) supported> >>> as of> >>> late.> >>>> >>> I'll search > > around some and see if anyone else may be having these> >>> issues.I > > know last night I was having major issue with gernades> >>> blowing > > up and my computer would lag to all high hell,and found out> >>> my > > hard drive after a FS 2004 mesh install was fragmented to high> >>> > > hell.After the defrag all> >>>> > way> >> >>> well> >>> again and I > > knew that cs 1.6 wouldn't stress out an fx-60, 2 gigs or> > >>> ram > > and an audigy 2 zs.....Anywho hope I may have given you> >>> > > something else to look> >>> into.> >>>> >>> -BeNt-> >>> > > http://www.gorillazsouth.com> >>>> >>>> >>>> > > > >>>> _______________________________________________> >>> To > >>>> unsubscribe, > >>>> > > edit your list preferences, or view the list> >>> archives, please > > visit:> >>> http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds> > > >>>> > > > >>>>>>> _______________________________________________> >> To > >>>>>>> > > unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list> >> > > archives,> > > > >>>>>>>>>> please visit: > >>>>>>>>>> > > http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds> >>> >> > > > _______________________________________________> > To unsubscribe, > > edit your list preferences, or view the list archives,> > > please > > visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds> >> > --> > > > No virus found in this incoming message.> > Checked by AVG Free > > Edition.> > > > Version: 7.5.441 / Virus Database: 268.18.3/694 - Release Date:> > > > 2/20/2007 1:44 PM> >> >> > --> > No virus found in this outgoing > > message.> > Checked by AVG Free Edition.> > Version: 7.5.441 / Virus > > Database: 268.18.3/694 - Release Date:> > 2/20/2007 1:44 PM> >> >> >> > > > _______________________________________________> > To unsubscribe, edit > > your list preferences, or view the list archives,> > > please visit: > > http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds> >> >> > > > > _______________________________________________> To unsubscribe, edit > > your list preferences, or view the list archives,> please visit: > > http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds> > --> No virus > > found in this incoming message.> Checked by AVG Free Edition.> Version: > > 7.5.441 / Virus Database: 268.18.3/694 - Release Date:> 2/20/2007 1:44 > > PM> > > --> No virus found in this outgoing message.> Checked by AVG > > Free Edition.> Version: 7.5.441 / Virus Database: 268.18.3/694 - > > Release Date:> 2/20/2007 1:44 PM> > > > > > _______________________________________________> To unsubscribe, > > edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please > > visit:> http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds > > _________________________________________________________________ > > Live Search: Better results, fast > > http://get.live.com/search/overview > > -- > > > > _______________________________________________ > > To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list > > archives, please visit: > > http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds > > > > -- > > No virus found in this incoming message. > > Checked by AVG Free Edition. > > Version: 7.5.441 / Virus Database: 268.18.3/694 - Release Date: > > 2/20/2007 1:44 PM > > > > > > -- > > No virus found in this outgoing message. > > Checked by AVG Free Edition. > > Version: 7.5.441 / Virus Database: 268.18.3/694 - Release Date: > > 2/20/2007 1:44 PM > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list > > archives, > please visit: > > http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds > > > > _______________________________________________ > > To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list > > archives, > please visit: > > http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, > please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds > -- _______________________________________________ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.441 / Virus Database: 268.18.3/696 - Release Date: 2/21/2007 3:19 PM -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.441 / Virus Database: 268.18.3/696 - Release Date: 2/21/2007 3:19 PM _______________________________________________ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds _______________________________________________ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds _______________________________________________ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds
