James, Your reply is about me and not about the beta, therefore I'm not interested.
Cheers. -----Original Message----- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of James Gray Sent: 01 May 2007 21:45 To: hlds@list.valvesoftware.com Subject: Re: [hlds] Pure Server Mode Question / Request The problem is, you have been making very strong statements towards several people using _assumptions_ as to how the pure server mode will work. This has become an obvious problem, so perhaps you should learn a bit more about the subject matter. All you've been doing here is rambling on about vanilla servers or whatnot.... On 5/1/07, Chris Barnett <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Whisper, > > I'm not here for an argument. I'm not here for some kind of bun fight. > Someone asked a question, I answered it in a more than reasonable manner. > > If you have nothing to offer other than insults and just want to snipe from > the sidelines, it's really not my problem mate. > > Cheers. > > -----Original Message----- > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Whisper > Sent: 01 May 2007 18:31 > To: hlds@list.valvesoftware.com > Subject: Re: [hlds] Pure Server Mode Question / Request > > -- > [ Picked text/plain from multipart/alternative ] > Arguing with idiots only makes you stupid > > They only drag you down to their level and beat you with experience > > The only thing cystal clear, is that you are not worth engaging, and you are > certainly not worth getting upset about. Which is why this is all you are > going to get from me. > > On 5/2/07, Chris Barnett <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > A personal insult with no argument what-so-ever. > > > > I've made myself crystal clear in plain English. > > > > Now if you have a problem with any of the numerous points I have raised, > > then the floor is yours. > > > > People have asked me questions. I've answered them, without resorting to > > hurling insults at others. > > > > Are you suggesting that VALVe shouldn't bother to offer a mechanism to > > server operators to check for consistency on custom files, just because a > > small number of server operators: > > > > A) Make the mistake of using the thing to check for the consitancy of > > non-gaming files > > B) Pick daft names for files. > > > > > > ???????? > > > > > > Cheers. > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Whisper > > Sent: 01 May 2007 17:44 > > To: hlds@list.valvesoftware.com > > Subject: Re: [hlds] Pure Server Mode Question / Request > > > > -- > > [ Picked text/plain from multipart/alternative ] > > The only stupid server operator on this list is you. > > > > On 5/2/07, Chris Barnett <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > > > Erm, I have no problem with vanilla servers. > > > > > > What I have a problem with, is anything which NEEDLESSLY caters only for > > > vanilla servers, thus damaging the custom server community. > > > > > > For instance, what do you think would happen, if VALVe only offered VAC > > on > > > vanilla servers? It's the same with file consistency. Thankfully, that's > > > now > > > an academic scenario as Alfred is saying this new system can check > > custom > > > content. > > > > > > I'm painfully aware that standard textures are exploited and the history > > > behind it all and no, I disagree that something that fixed only standard > > > content, would be detrimental to the game as people would start to play > > on > > > only custom maps as they are the only maps which are covered from > > > exploits. > > > But anyway. Who cares? Alfred says that the new system covers > > everything, > > > both Valve and non-Valve. > > > > > > With regards to custom content, in the scenario that you have cited, it > > > would be down to the second server administrator to spot the trend of > > > people > > > being kicked for "hello.wav" and to change his custom files as > > > appropriate. > > > > > > VALVe should not be punishing 99% of server operators because 1% are too > > > stupid to configure their servers properly. > > > > > > Cheers. > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Roman Hatsiev > > > Sent: 01 May 2007 15:58 > > > To: hlds@list.valvesoftware.com > > > Subject: Re: [hlds] Pure Server Mode Question / Request > > > > > > You seem to be a bit blindfolded by crusade against vanilla servers, pal > > > :D > > > > > > Most commonly used exploits are based on original resources > > > replacement, like footsteps, bomb pickup-defuse sounds, textures, etc. > > > Even if update will enforce only original resources it will be > > > extremely useful. Though it would be nice to use the same approach for > > > all content available on server, I'm not going to argue obvious. > > > > > > Still there are some questions about non-Steam content. Let's say you > > > are playing on two servers both having different hello.wav files and > > > consistency of hello.wav is enforced by both servers - server admins > > > want you to listen to their genuine unmodified greeting. Each time > > > before joining second server you'll have to delete version downloaded > > > from first server. This can be a problem since most players don't > > > really care to read console. I hope you see my point. > > > > > > Regards, > > > > > > Roman > > > > > > On 01/05/07, Chris Barnett <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > Roman, > > > > > > > > I'm sorry, but you don't know what you are talking about. > > > > > > > > File A - On the server > > > > > > > > File A - On the client > > > > > > > > Does it matter if file A is from the original game vendor or not? > > > > > > > > No, it doesn't. What matters is that file A is the same on both the > > > server > > > > and client. > > > > > > > > I don't care whether Valve, some German dude or my cat made File A, > > what > > > > matters is that it's the same on both the client and the server. > > > > > > > > It's really that simple. > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Roman Hatsiev > > > > Sent: 30 April 2007 14:42 > > > > To: hlds@list.valvesoftware.com > > > > Subject: Re: [hlds] Pure Server Mode Question / Request > > > > > > > > My point is that consistency of original resources is HUGE leap > > > > forward to fair play and it has nothing to do with vanilla servers. > > > > There are far too many unfair things that can be done just by > > > > replacing of few files on client side. You don't really need a > > > > software cheat to get a significant advantage over other players. > > > > > > > > On 30/04/07, Chris Barnett <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > > If it's to only enforce the original resources provided by Steam and > > > not > > > > the > > > > > server operator, then it's a complete and utter total waste of time > > > then, > > > > > unless you are one of those very, very vocal 5%ers, who are trying > > to > > > > force > > > > > the vanilla game on the rest of us of course...(I don't believe you > > > are > > > by > > > > > the way). > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Roman > > Hatsiev > > > > > Sent: 28 April 2007 07:19 > > > > > To: hlds@list.valvesoftware.com > > > > > Subject: Re: [hlds] Pure Server Mode Question / Request > > > > > > > > > > I think that the idea behind pure server mode is to force the > > > > > consistency of original resources delivered via Steam, not to > > prevent > > > > > people from using custom maps. > > > > > > > > > > On 28/04/07, Chris Barnett <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > > > If you want a pure server, don't install anything on top. > > > > > > > > > > > > There is no need for Valve to do anything. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > > > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Keeper > > > > > > Sent: 27 April 2007 15:54 > > > > > > To: hlds@list.valvesoftware.com > > > > > > Subject: RE: [hlds] Pure Server Mode Question / Request > > > > > > > > > > > > Quoted from the whitelist: > > > > > > > > > > > > // > > > > > > // Three types of file specifications: > > > > > > // > > > > > > // 1. directory\*.* - refers to all files under the > > > > directory > > > > > > // 2. directory\... - refers to all files under the > > > > directory > > > > > > and all directories under that (recursively) > > > > > > // 3. directory\filename - refers to a single file > > > > > > > > > > > > Best way and easiest would be to do the second one. > > > > > > > > > > > > Like they show: > > > > > > > > > > > > // > > > > > > // By default, when in pure server mode, most content file types > > > are > > > > > only > > > > > > allowed to come from Steam. > > > > > > // > > > > > > materials\... from_steam > > > > > > models\... from_steam > > > > > > sounds\... from_steam > > > > > > scripts\... from_steam > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > > > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Will > > > > > > Sent: Friday, April 27, 2007 10:23 AM > > > > > > To: hlds@list.valvesoftware.com > > > > > > Subject: Re: [hlds] Pure Server Mode Question / Request > > > > > > > > > > > > could you be so kind to point out how that could be done without > > > listing > > > > > the > > > > > > 8,837 files in 273 folders in a whitelist? > > > > > > > > > > > > Thanks > > > > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > > > From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > > > > > To: <hlds@list.valvesoftware.com> > > > > > > Sent: Friday, April 27, 2007 9:27 AM > > > > > > Subject: hlds digest, Vol 1 #5351 - 2 msgs > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Send hlds mailing list submissions to > > > > > > > hlds@list.valvesoftware.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > > > > > > > http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds > > > > > > > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > > > > > > > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You can reach the person managing the list at > > > > > > > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more > > > specific > > > > > > > than "Re: Contents of hlds digest..." > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Today's Topics: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 1. Pure Server Mode Question / Request (Will) > > > > > > > 2. Re: Pure Server Mode Question / Request (Wim Barelds) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --__--__-- > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Message: 1 > > > > > > > From: "Will" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > > > > > > To: <hlds@list.valvesoftware.com> > > > > > > > Date: Fri, 27 Apr 2007 08:59:24 -0400 > > > > > > > Subject: [hlds] Pure Server Mode Question / Request > > > > > > > Reply-To: hlds@list.valvesoftware.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > We want to lock all default game content to use only steam > > files, > > > > > > > everything > > > > > > > no "replacement" allowed at all for default game content. > > > > > > > We run servers that plays many default maps but also many custom > > > maps, > > > > > we > > > > > > > want to allow files from disk only for custom maps with the crc > > > checks > > > > > as > > > > > > > there will be no steam files for these. Will this be possible or > > > are > > > > we > > > > > > > left > > > > > > > out of all this by running custom maps? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Can there be a var for all default content from Steam but allow > > > files > > > > > from > > > > > > > disk with crc for content that was not delivered from Steam? > > > > > > > if in steam use steam if not use from disk and crc > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Looking at the whitelist I don't see a way to do this without > > > adding > > > > all > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > files for 150 custom maps file by file to the whitelist, many > > > custom > > > > map > > > > > > > files do not path to /custommapname/ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Also a viewable var for this"? > > > > > > > I would think many league and community type servers would want > > to > > > run > > > > > in > > > > > > > such a mode, with a viewable var so it can be checked by players > > > in > > > > game > > > > > > > or > > > > > > > hlsw. > > > > > > > I think the viewable vars is important to remove suspicion. > > > > > > > sv_pure 0/1/2 > > > > > > > say 2 for default = use whitelist > > > > > > > say 1 From Steam only for all default files and > > > > > allow_from_disk+check_crc > > > > > > > for any non steam content > > > > > > > 0 off > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I recall awhile back you saying you were going to look into > > > removing > > > > > some > > > > > > > unneeded vars from the server query, can you please make room in > > > the > > > > > > > server > > > > > > > query for vars from plugins by removing some like: > > > > > > > r_VehicleViewDampen > > > > > > > r_JeepViewDampenFreq > > > > > > > r_JeepViewDampenDamp > > > > > > > r_JeepViewZHeight > > > > > > > r_AirboatViewDampenFreq > > > > > > > r_AirboatViewDampenDamp > > > > > > > r_AirboatViewZHeight > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Thank you > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --__--__-- > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Message: 2 > > > > > > > Date: Fri, 27 Apr 2007 15:28:25 +0200 > > > > > > > From: "Wim Barelds" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > > > > > > To: hlds@list.valvesoftware.com > > > > > > > Subject: Re: [hlds] Pure Server Mode Question / Request > > > > > > > Reply-To: hlds@list.valvesoftware.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > > > > [ Picked text/plain from multipart/alternative ] > > > > > > > You should be able to do most of what you want simply by > > modifying > > > the > > > > > > > whitelist. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On 4/27/07, Will <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> We want to lock all default game content to use only steam > > files, > > > > > > >> everything > > > > > > >> no "replacement" allowed at all for default game content. > > > > > > >> We run servers that plays many default maps but also many > > custom > > > > maps, > > > > > we > > > > > > >> want to allow files from disk only for custom maps with the crc > > > > checks > > > > > as > > > > > > >> there will be no steam files for these. Will this be possible > > or > > > are > > > > we > > > > > > >> left > > > > > > >> out of all this by running custom maps? > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> Can there be a var for all default content from Steam but allow > > > files > > > > > > >> from > > > > > > >> disk with crc for content that was not delivered from Steam? > > > > > > >> if in steam use steam if not use from disk and crc > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> Looking at the whitelist I don't see a way to do this without > > > adding > > > > > all > > > > > > >> the > > > > > > >> files for 150 custom maps file by file to the whitelist, many > > > custom > > > > > map > > > > > > >> files do not path to /custommapname/ > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> Also a viewable var for this"? > > > > > > >> I would think many league and community type servers would want > > > to > > > > run > > > > > in > > > > > > >> such a mode, with a viewable var so it can be checked by > > players > > > in > > > > > game > > > > > > >> or > > > > > > >> hlsw. > > > > > > >> I think the viewable vars is important to remove suspicion. > > > > > > >> sv_pure 0/1/2 > > > > > > >> say 2 for default = use whitelist > > > > > > >> say 1 From Steam only for all default files and > > > > > allow_from_disk+check_crc > > > > > > >> for any non steam content > > > > > > >> 0 off > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> I recall awhile back you saying you were going to look into > > > removing > > > > > some > > > > > > >> unneeded vars from the server query, can you please make room > > in > > > the > > > > > > >> server > > > > > > >> query for vars from plugins by removing some like: > > > > > > >> r_VehicleViewDampen > > > > > > >> r_JeepViewDampenFreq > > > > > > >> r_JeepViewDampenDamp > > > > > > >> r_JeepViewZHeight > > > > > > >> r_AirboatViewDampenFreq > > > > > > >> r_AirboatViewDampenDamp > > > > > > >> r_AirboatViewZHeight > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> Thank you > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> _______________________________________________ > > > > > > >> To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list > > > > archives, > > > > > > >> please visit: > > > > > > >> http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > > > > ___________________________ > > > > > > > Wim 'TheUnknownFactor' Barelds > > > > > > > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > > > > -- > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --__--__-- > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > > > > To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list > > > archives, > > > > > > > please visit: > > > > > > > http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > End of hlds Digest > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > > > To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list > > > archives, > > > > > > please visit: > > > > > > http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > > > To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list > > > archives, > > > > > > please visit: > > > > > > http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > > > To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list > > > archives, > > > > > please visit: > > > > > > http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > > To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list > > archives, > > > > > please visit: > > > > > http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > > To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list > > archives, > > > > > please visit: > > > > > http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds > > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, > > > > please visit: > > > > http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, > > > please visit: > > > > http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, > > > please visit: > > > http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, > > > please visit: > > > http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds > > > > > -- > > > > _______________________________________________ > > To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, > > please visit: > > http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, > > please visit: > > http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds > > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, > please visit: > http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds > > > _______________________________________________ > To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: > http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds > 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