Not this bullshit again. The custom tab has to be scratched, all servers should be displayed by default. Players should then be allowed to filter tags they like or do not like.
If a player learns to use tags, great. If they don't, they see all options. This is what's important, if you by default HIDE 'custom' servers, the majority of the players who don't care will never see the so called custom servers. The whole tag system is flawed, let's say I run a 24 server without fast respawn. No tags are added by valve without any kind of mods manipulating the tags. But I add a grapple hook for all players. What server operator in their right mind would voluntarily add a tag that results in their server effectively being delisted? NOBODY. And then what is valve going to do about that? Are they going to come tell server ops "hey you HAVE to list tags". Is valve going to hire a bunch of people to look for servers to make sure they aren't modded? Doubtful. In its current implementation server operators have an incentive to avoid tags, if all servers are shown by default with their respective tags, server operators would have an incentive to SHOW their tags. It's basically saying "hey! Look what we got!", but if players don't see this by default, it will be worthless. How hard is it to understand this? Valve probably realized their mistake and might be correcting it. At least I hope so. The custom tab will be an eternal cat and mouse game between server operators and valve. Valve can very easily solve the problem and make everyone happy just by having the servers all visible by default. Players who want custom, can find it. Players who want vanilla, can find it. Players who don't care or don't know what they want, or don't know how to use the filters, have all options shown to them so they can make their mind on the fly. If you go to a restaurant and the waiter gives you a menu, and without you knowing, there is "two" different menus, but they give you the "standard" menu, chances are, very few people will ever ask "hey what's on the other menu" Also, increased_maxplayers is probably one of the stupidest tags ever. It's like a bag of peanuts with the warning: "Warning: contains peanuts". Like players can't tell it's a 32 player server without reading the tags. - voogru. -----Original Message----- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of SakeFox Sent: Wednesday, July 23, 2008 9:57 PM To: Half-Life dedicated Win32 server mailing list Subject: Re: [hlds] valve, some feedback? Well just because you pay for your servers doesn't give you rights to do whatever with there programs. Valve has been good about allowing people to modify there games, but i can see there point in what they are doing. They want people that are getting into the game to be able to play it as it was created and not with modified settings. There not limiting anyone from running there servers how they want. They are just looking at how new people experience the game. Now the game was designed for 24players in a server, so if you have a 32 person complaining about balancing issues in a game, that information is kinda scewed because the game is not played as intended. I really didn't want to create the bullshit from a few weeks ago either, however i think it was a few months ago, but since no one else has been calling Valve out on there short comings and completely ignoring issues with there games I thought I might as well start somewhere. This really wasn't intended to start the flame back up, but thought it to bring this bit up of there idle threats first and get it out of the way since its the most touchy of things. tgnwells wrote: > I think the problem is valve set up the rules without thinking much > about them, or more obviously, how the community would react to being > forced to have to adapt to these changes when there's really no reason to. > > And a lot of people pay good money for their hosted servers, I don't > think Valve should be moderating the servers people put up and start > punishing people for something that doesn't really matter either way, I > especially hope they don't think they should as well. > > And to think this whole custom tags argument bullshit could be done with > once and for all by adding an "All Servers" tab. > > chillicane wrote: > >> indeed you are correct, valve set us up the rules (sic) >> >> The problem we have in this country is all the major telco run server >> opertions have instaspawn servers and none of them end up in the custom tab, >> wether they are running a plugin version of instaspawn or >> disableresapwntimers 1. >> >> And the custom tab may have only 20 or so servers on it at any one time. >> >> hopefully i managed to avoid creating a flame war over this. Certainly dont >> want to create that bullshit we had here 2 weeks ago. >> >> >> >> >> >> On Thu, Jul 24, 2008 at 11:01 AM, Jake E <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >> >> >> >>> good idea >>> >>> On Wed, Jul 23, 2008 at 7:24 PM, chillicane <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >>> >>> >>> >>>> Apart from the fact that it took me a while to realise the custom tab was >>>> there when it was first implemented, my main issue with it is that it is >>>> STILL not in the out of game, steam server list. >>>> >>>> I think the tags should still be there, but instead of shunting the >>>> >>>> >>> servers >>> >>> >>>> off to the custom tab where no-one looks, allow them to be searchable via >>>> filters. If something like this was happening instead of the custom tab >>>> arrangment, we wouldnt be trying so hard to circumvent this in the first >>>> place. The fact is, if your on the custom tab, people dont come. >>>> >>>> On Thu, Jul 24, 2008 at 9:01 AM, Blood Letter < >>>> >>>> >>> [EMAIL PROTECTED]> >>> >>> >>>> wrote: >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>> The last thing Valve wants to do is get in a war with the mod writers >>>>> >>>>> >>>> over >>>> >>>> >>>>> this. >>>>> Every TF2 update will include a patch to the delisting code, and every >>>>> >>>>> >>>> mod >>>> >>>> >>>>> update will include a patch for that. >>>>> >>>>> I'm a server admin. I don't know what the tags are. I don't know how >>>>> >>>>> >>> to >>> >>> >>>>> use them. I don't care. >>>>> I run a game server for people to have fun. My server run's Beetles >>>>> >>>>> >>> Mod >>> >>> >>>>> for administration and reserved slots. >>>>> I have custom maps, but not in my regular rotation. If the server is >>>>> switched to one, you'll be able to download it lickity split from my >>>>> redirect. >>>>> I see no need for tags in my case. >>>>> >>>>> If you're running a 24/7 or party mode or omg supar low gravity or >>>>> >>>>> >>>> whatever >>>> >>>> >>>>> server that can mess with people's stats, achievements, etc., just list >>>>> >>>>> >>>> it >>>> >>>> >>>>> in the damned server name. >>>>> >>>>> As for tags/stats/etc.... >>>>> >>>>> I'd be more than happy to see Valve do away with the custom tags >>>>> >>>>> >>> entirely >>> >>> >>>>> and just give us more robust filter options, and the option to reset >>>>> >>>>> >>> our >>> >>> >>>>> stats. >>>>> Ideally, you'd be able to reset individual stats and achievements, and >>>>> track stats over all time, month, week, etc. Sure, that kind of stat >>>>> tracking is more suited to a mod/plugin, but those would only catch >>>>> >>>>> >>> data >>> >>> >>>>> from one server/group of servers, and you wouldn't see them when >>>>> >>>>> >>> loading. >>> >>> >>>>> The way Valve handled stats seems to have been shortsighted. When >>>>> >>>>> >>>> someone >>>> >>>> >>>>> first gets into TF2, they see their stats at each map load and can see >>>>> >>>>> >>>> their >>>> >>>> >>>>> progress, and it's interesting. It encourages you to try out other >>>>> >>>>> >>>> classes >>>> >>>> >>>>> and do better. After a few weeks/months, you're basically staring at >>>>> >>>>> >>> the >>> >>> >>>>> same bars. Stats don't age well. A lot of people complain about >>>>> >>>>> >>> custom >>> >>> >>>>> servers avoiding the tags because they can ruin their stats. A lot of >>>>> people want to reset their stats because of this. I'm willing to be >>>>> >>>>> >>>> there >>>> >>>> >>>>> are also a lot of people who would like to reset their stats just >>>>> >>>>> >>> because >>> >>> >>>>> they'd like to get a picture of how they're doing now that they're >>>>> experienced with the game. Stats would a lot more fun for me if I >>>>> >>>>> >>> could >>> >>> >>>>> reset them (keeping my unlocks/achievements!) and play for a week or >>>>> >>>>> >>> two >>> >>> >>>>> from a blank slate. >>>>> >>>>> If we can't reset our stats, let us reset our stat displays. Think of >>>>> >>>>> >>> it >>> >>> >>>>> as an odometer versus a trip odometer. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> Date: Wed, 23 Jul 2008 18:31:02 -0400 >>>>>> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] >>>>>> To: hlds@list.valvesoftware.com >>>>>> Subject: [hlds] valve, some feedback? >>>>>> >>>>>> Most likely there will be a patch and make some of this more >>>>>> >>>>>> >>> worthless >>> >>> >>>>>> then it already is, but since its been kinda quite the last few days >>>>>> >>>>>> >>> i >>> >>> >>>>>> thought what the heck. No its not beating a long lost dead >>>>>> >>>>>> >>> horse...well >>> >>> >>>>>> maybe a small poke. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> A while ago valve made mention about delisting servers that are >>>>>> bypassing the custom tags. Now i am not wanting to start a huge thing >>>>>> again on if there should be tags or what not, but i am more wondering >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>> on >>>> >>>> >>>>>> why valve gave out a kind of idle threat then does nothing with it. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>> You >>> >>> >>>>>> look on the lists and there are a bunch of servers that are bypassing >>>>>> it. Is there going to be any actual enforcement here or something >>>>>> >>>>>> >>> else >>> >>> >>>>>> you guys are just giving up on it? >>>>>> >>>>>> I would like to hear some feedback from valve about some bug fixes >>>>>> >>>>>> >>> that >>> >>> >>>>>> i had brought up in the list before. most that have been there since >>>>>> long long ago that also seem to have been ignored. >>>>>> >>>>>> Can we get some information on these things? >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list >>>>>> >>>>>> >>> archives, >>> >>> >>>>> please visit: >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> _________________________________________________________________ >>>>> Use video conversation to talk face-to-face with Windows Live >>>>> >>>>> >>> Messenger. >>> >>> >>>>> >>>>> >>> http://www.windowslive.com/messenger/connect_your_way.html?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL _Refresh_messenger_video_072008 >>> >>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, >>>>> please visit: >>>>> http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>> -- >>>> -------- >>>> Chillidog Systems - Re-inventing the wheel for the sake of all humanity! >>>> -------- >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, >>>> please visit: >>>> http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds >>>> >>>> >>>> >>> -- >>> I don't have a sig -_- >>> _______________________________________________ >>> To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, >>> please visit: >>> http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds >>> >>> >>> >> >> >> > > _______________________________________________ > To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: > http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds > > > _______________________________________________ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds _______________________________________________ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds
