WHAT? Are you on glue? Explain to me how micro$oft, let alone, windoze has ANYTHING to do with this??? Did they just buy Valve? Or did they covertly purchase (or steal) RFC-768 recently without my knowledge (or bid)? So how (I cant wait for this answer) would changing the way they handle UDP have ANYTHING to do with what we're discussing? We're not talking about pings here, nor are we discussing routing. This is a simple matter of CPU usage.
DjoDJo was talking about the fact that with the huge increase in cpu load, he can't run well because the insane resource requirements cause his servers to melt - thus increasing pings to an unplayable level. The problem is not the ping, it is the need for clockcycles. ISP's and latest routing technology? I'm sure whoever is in charge of the ISP's decisions on routing policies has a pretty decent handle on what's best for their organization. If you were familiar with this concept, you'd know there isn't one cure-all for routing, protocol or otherwise. And valve? Slap them 100M and get a low-ping server and network? Um, Valve isn't a charity organization, they're a company, in business to make money, and throwing money at something doesn't guarantee that it will either work, or be fixed (windows anyone?). Ok, Im sorry for the flame here, but calling the discussion BS and telling people to chill out because it makes you sick really isn't too proper for a listesrv, especially when you don't know what you're talking about. Ok, back to my little cave. Michael Ressen, Michigan Burbs Network Administrator www.michiganburbs.com > From: "Britt" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Subject: Re: RE: [hlds_linux] HLDS 3111c > Date: Sun, 1 Jun 2003 20:36:06 -0500 > Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > get a grip. I'm more than sure the programmers do care. Be > glad its free and ligthen up a little - alright? > Use 3.1.1.0c until you hear the release is stable. We're > running more than > one '32' player server and pushing close to 30 gig at any > given instance of valves ever popular TFC/CS/DOD UPD traffic. > You can only do so much with what you're given bro - unless > windows changes and the UDP protocol and other internet > routing facilities change their ways of routing to a more > up-2-date means - then its gonna just linger... Until that > time -we have no > choice but to deal with what we're dealing with now. Slap over $100 > million to valve and I promise they'll give you a 'low ping' > server and network! Then you tell Microsoft to modify the way > UDP packets are handled and other major ISPs to change to the > latest in routing technology. > > We can load a 2 processes of hlds on an Intel P4 2gzh 1 gig > ddram - 32 players each - and it runs just fine. If you're > on an old school ISP with lame routing - it'll probably suck > - other than that - Valve is doing 110% - I'm no programmer > but we have indy programmers here in this company that do > gaming dev - and its 1000 times more complex than you could ever > imagine!!!!!!! So chill on the CPU BS - that makes me sick. > Sorry man. > Just frustrates me seeing someone flame a development company > thats doing this for free (lifetime) and people bitch and > moan - while we profit off their development by providing > server space and bandwidth... consider us lucky. > > Have a nice day. Beer is on the ice! > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Sent: Sunday, June 01, 2003 8:32 PM > Subject: Re: RE: [hlds_linux] HLDS 3111c > > > > I CAN'T understand how they can add some useless features like the > > "stats" system in console, which use more and more CPU, > when the cpu > > usage is already so high ! > > > > I use a AMD 1900 XP to run a 32 people servers, it run > quite good with > > the 1.1.1.0c (dont dream, i cant run big maps like torn, storm, > > piranesi, survivor or even vertigo, or the ping go up to > 200 for every > > one). I tried the 1.1.1.1 , without any plugin, with the optimised > > binaries, and > it was > > totally unplayable. If i wanted to have the same ping than before, i > should > > set the maxplayer to 24 !! > > > > Sorry i'm a bit nervous, but this is too crazy. > > Valve programmer dont care about CPU usage. > > I would prefer a new beta only based on CPU usage > improvement, than a > > new beta in which we cant find real good new things but which still > > use more > and > > more CPU. > > I'm sure it would be really more appreciated by a lot of > people. And I > > wonder why the servers renting company dont speak about > that. That's > > probably a big problem for them. > > > > DjoDjo > > > > >I'm comparing the recent 3.1.1.1 to 3.1.1.0c, and observe > approx 40 > > >increase in cpu load under idential maps and playercounts > running CS. > > >Now my setups use -pingboost 3 and +sys_ticrate 10000 so I > know I'm > > >going to be working the cpu, but even with the advent of optimized > > >binaries, it made zero difference. One of my servers has > a 2.8 Xeon, > > >and if a binary compiled with optimizations for x686 really did > > >anything I would have noticed a difference between the 4 > binaries that were > > >provided. I was not able to disinguish any difference in > performance > > >or load for any of them. All of them worked, even the > amd-optmized > > >one, and no one showed any better performance than any other. > > > > > >With my setup, I can still support 2 20-player servers with that > > >config and the new binaries, but that's really pushing it > and there's no margin > > >left. I hope Valve considers this issue because such a dramatic > > >increase in resources is bound to have an effect on the entire HL > > >community. Just think, how many people's server hardware > can no longer > > >support what they were running, all because of an upgrade? > My guess is > > >quite a few. I can understand some gradual needs for resource > > >increases over time, but what caused such a substantial > increase? Has > > >Valve even acknowleged it yet? Have they said anything about > > >correcting it? I haven't heard anything, so my > assumption is that > > >they are considering this not to be a code problem, but an > inherent > > >need of the game engine. > > > > > >I rolled my servers back to 3.1.1.0c last night, and they > are running > > >beautifully again. Loads are down, pings are down, > players are happy, > > >and I have left over CPU resources again. > > > > > >Back to your statement about a 1gig cpu doing just fine, > yes I agree. > > >We were running a 20-player CS server with HLG on a 700mhz > P3 back in > > >February. Yes it did get a bit overworked when full, but > it wasn't > > >bad. Now, I'd wonder if it could even handle 14 players. > > > > > >So at this time I can see no advantage to moving to 3.1.1.1 (or > > >4.1.1.1 for win32) until such time that a benefit is revealed. > > > > > >Michael Ressen, > > >Michigan Burbs Network Administrator > > > > > >www.michiganburbs.com > > > > > > > > >> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > >> Date: Sun, 1 Jun 2003 14:56:41 EDT > > >> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > >> Subject: [hlds_linux] HLDS 3111c > > >> Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > >> > > >> -- > > >> [ Picked text/plain from multipart/alternative ] > > >> I would be happy to see the CRAZY cpu usage of > > >> this 3.1.1.1x beta FIXED... > > >> > > >> Think about people who host servers !!!!! > > >> 20 more cpu usage than 3.1.1.0 ! > > >> > > >> Bah! > > >> > > >> DjoDjo > > >> > > >> > > >> Do you know compare to 3.1.1.1(or 4.1.1.1 for win32) to the old > > >> version like 3.0.0.8 the CPU usage jumped like 200 to > 300 Percent ? > > >> > > >> 2-3 years ago, a 1GHz can handle HLDS + CS like nothing, now? a > > >> 3GHz computer can barely handle a busy HLDS, I'm not > sure what kind > > >> of code they're using, but this kind of insane CPU > really getting > > >> out of hand, compare to other game engines that got far more > > >> features than HL does but they're using far less > resources.....sigh > > >> > > >> Chickon _______________________________________________ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux
