Agreed. This plan seems like it'd do some good. Perhaps a link could be in each email at the start or end with a link to it on the archive? That'd make it easier for people to read any posts in that thread they missed, especially newcomers On Oct 25, 2011 12:07 AM, "Emil Larsson" <ail...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Better archiving is good, I don't think the archives are public either > (other than the unofficial scraping forums), which they should be. Happened > more than once that i show fellow admins something from this mailing list, > and a open archive would let them follow the discussion. > > I'm happy with keeping the mailing list around. Though I admit it's a > little > hidden away, easy to overlook as a new admin. > > On Tue, Oct 25, 2011 at 7:21 AM, Fletcher Dunn > <fletch...@valvesoftware.com>wrote: > > > There's no pressure from anywhere to close this mailing list. > > > > Since most people seem to be happy with the list in its current form, it > > looks like it's highly unlikely that we would be able to find another > > alternative that offers compelling enough advantages to make it worth our > > while to migrate. > > > > Making it easier to search the archives seems like something simple we > > could look into. > > > > I'll see you guys in another two years when the next Valve noob brings up > > this topic again. :) > > > > Cheers, > > Fletch > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: hlds_linux-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com [mailto: > > hlds_linux-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com] On Behalf Of ics > > Sent: Monday, October 24, 2011 10:03 PM > > To: Half-Life dedicated Linux server mailing list > > Subject: Re: [hlds_linux] Forum vs. email list > > > > I prefer mailing list. Just because it's easy to use while reading > > regular e-mail and you can just pick a message to read easily, delete > > immediately the rest that you don't need. On forum, you have to browse > > around on many threads and it's very time consuming. I also hate the > > SPUF style where you just get post to your mail that happened after your > > reply and the messages after that are ignored untill i visit the forum > > again. Forums might be clean first but full of dirt later. Too many > > immature people there, way less here on this list. > > > > People go crazy on forums whenever someone from Valve replies, they want > > to contribute. I'ts a mess there. Benefit on forums is the the easier > > search and messages browsing if you prefer reading all once a week and > > have time to go through all the messages. The count of messages that > > should not be posted would rise high too. It would be harder to find the > > thing you are looking for. It's good for historians. How many people > > browse old messages anyway and why? To check something or find answer? > > Isn't wiki for the answers better or some sort of section "how to run a > > server for dummies". > > > > The recent change where there's as much as ~10 people been around from > > Valve within a month is something i've never seen before. I thought the > > list would live long and the latter closing notice would have been > > proved wrong but i guess there is pressure to close the list down. This > > is way more convinient than forums. Please do not close this down. > > > > -ics > > > > > > 25.10.2011 7:28, Andrew kirjoitti: > > > What about adding some kind of easy searching to the mailing list > > > archives? That seems to be only commonly brought up minus to keeping > > > this format. > > > > > > I am able to access them (the archives) with my login, but the > > > standard listings by month and downloadable gzip'ed archives makes > > > searching nontrivial. Improving that would be a big + > > > > > > On Mon, Oct 24, 2011 at 11:24 PM, m33crob<ad...@m33crob.com> wrote: > > >> I too would prefer to keep the mailing list. If a forum materializes > out > > of > > >> this conversation, I would be interested in becoming a moderator. I'm > > >> already super active in the Steam Forums and you guys may or may not > > have > > >> noticed that I update the Steam Forums server sections almost > everyday. > > >> > > >> On Mon, Oct 24, 2011 at 9:15 PM, Jesse Molina<je...@opendreams.net> > > wrote: > > >> > > >>> I prefer mailing lists, which is why I am here. Discussion and > replies > > are > > >>> below: > > >>> > > >>> I prefer mailing lists because there is a small technical barrier to > > entry. > > >>> Chances are that you had to use a search engine to find it, which > > means you > > >>> probably already tried to find what you were looking for via that > > search > > >>> engine and failed. Many noobs don't even know what a mailman list > is, > > and > > >>> that's good. I want to talk to other people who can actually help > me. > > This > > >>> mailing list is not primarily for a social experience. For most > > forums, a > > >>> significant amount of code is dedicated to smileys, avatars, > > signatures, > > >>> friends/foes, etc, because they need the social experience, because > > they are > > >>> ad-revenue driven. The amount of whitespace on web forums, compared > to > > >>> email, is terrible. > > >>> > > >>> Here's a thought: The quality of the discussion is primarily > impacted > > by > > >>> how those with authoritative knowledge (Valve employees and pros) > > engage in > > >>> the discussion. If Valve employees were more inclined to participate > > in > > >>> discussion on a web forum, I'd go web forum. I would not cry too > hard > > if > > >>> this one mailing list went away. It's just games. > > >>> > > >>> About the archives: Why are they password protected, and why has my > > >>> password never ever worked? From day one, the password that came in > my > > >>> welcome email didn't work and I never tried again. I have never ever > > >>> searched the archives because I can't. > > >>> > > >>> It is nice to have a single point of discussion for issues, as > opposed > > to > > >>> many different sites and applications. As an example, I am an > aquarium > > >>> hobbyist, and I often visit five different web forums because each > has > > some > > >>> specialty, or the community is fractured up. This is annoying. This > > is > > >>> also why I don't check forums.srcds.com but once in a great while. > > >>> > > >>> I've never seen a duel-pane message board reader that worked well. I > > see > > >>> browsing message boards as messy business. I use mutt and Seamonkey > as > > my > > >>> mail clients, depending on where I'm at. > > >>> > > >>> I use my android phone to check email. Checking a web forum would be > > >>> significantly more difficult. I would not do it, at all. I check > > email, > > >>> rss, and podcasts with my phone. Web forums are iPhone/Android > > unfriendly. > > >>> My Android client is k9mail. > > >>> > > >>> Some people brought up the issue of email spam because they fear > giving > > out > > >>> the mail address. Use a spam filter. I don't get spam because I > have > > my > > >>> own server with Spamassassin running. If you are using a free mail > > >>> provider, you get what you pay for (adverts). Business and > > professionals > > >>> use email. I wish I had more pleasant advice to give out, but that's > > the > > >>> truth. > > >>> > > >>> What about a forum that sends out email update announcements? I > don't > > use > > >>> those myself, with a very few exceptions of where I really must. This > > is > > >>> mostly because most of those forums have a very low signal to noise > > ratio. > > >>> I only click on a very few threads. In other words, my > participation > > level > > >>> is lower with web forums. > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> Replies: > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> Kigen wrote: > > >>>> Honestly, I don't like getting my inbox spammed with these messages. > > >>> That is what mail rules/filters are for. > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> DarthNinja wrote: > > >>>> I don't like the idea of forums, because it's a passive stream of > > data. > > >>>> People have to visit to check up on topics. > > >>>> People are just a lot less likely to reply to things in a forum > > >>> environment. > > >>> > > >>> I agree. > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> msleeper wrote: > > >>>> Valve, I'm sorry, but your forum population is about as dumb as > > >>>> facepunch, and I hope you realize it. > > >>> Harsh, but true. > > >>> > > >>> This is why I signed up for the mailing list. I am pro network > > >>> engineer/unix sysadmin, but I didn't know anything about srcds > servers > > a > > >>> year ago. I needed a place where I could come to for technical help > on > > >>> server administration related tasks. I did not come to discuss > in-game > > >>> content issues at all -- such issues are good for the main forums. > > >>> > > >>> That being said, let's face it: More than half of the people on this > > >>> (linux) mailing list doesn't know what a pipe, |, does on the bash > > command > > >>> line. Their preferred editor is the pico clone nano. Just gotta put > > up > > >>> with it... or maybe even help a noob once in awhile. > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> Steffen Schmolinske wrote: > > >>>> I'd like to have a forum just for the sake of proper archives& > search > > >>>> functions. > > >>> Valve is, right now, actively stopping you from having this. Ask > them > > why > > >>> they are doing that. > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> Ryan Stecker wrote: > > >>>> I would love a forum. I don't think the mailing list provides any > > decent > > >>>> method of searching, > > >>> Again, Valve is stopping you from having this. Ask them why they are > > doing > > >>> that. Why are they taking away from you something that you would > > otherwise > > >>> have? They have deliberately password protected the archives and > > prevent > > >>> search engines from searching them. > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> msleeper wrote: > > >>>> the main reason the list fails > > >>>> (and moving SPUF would only make it worse) is that most people post > > >>>> crap nobody needs to hear or wants to read and isn't useful. > > >>>> ... > > >>>> And guess what - we don't care about or need to hear about you > telling > > >>>> us that. Shut up, keep your stupid opinions to yourselves, and maybe > > >>>> there wouldn't be a "problem" in the first place. > > >>> Jesse Porter wrote: > > >>>> The > > >>>> farther away from server maintenance and updates the discussion get, > > the > > >>>> less interest I have (recent discussion on classes, etc). > > >>> This is just the classic pros vs noobs thing. Reference ESR's Asking > > Smart > > >>> Questions, which most have not read, or even heard of. > > >>> > > >>> Because this mailing list involves video games, it has a youth and > > >>> stupid-noob factor -- not to be mistaken as the same issue. I don't > > think > > >>> that can be helped. A FAQ to throw at them every time they failed to > > google > > >>> it might help. > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> -- > > >>> # Jesse Molina > > >>> # Mail = je...@opendreams.net > > >>> # Page = page-je...@opendreams.net > > >>> # Cell = 1.602.323.7608 > > >>> # Web = http://www.opendreams.net/**jesse/< > > http://www.opendreams.net/jesse/> > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> ______________________________**_________________ > > >>> To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list > archives, > > >>> please visit: > > >>> http://list.valvesoftware.com/**mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux< > > http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux> > > >>> > > >> _______________________________________________ > > >> To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, > > please visit: > > >> http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux > > >> > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, > > please visit: > > http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux > > > > _______________________________________________ > > To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, > > please visit: > > http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux > > > _______________________________________________ > To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, > please visit: > http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux > _______________________________________________ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux
