> On Monday, August 14, 2023 at 06:34:35 AM PDT, Grant Taylor wrote: >> On 8/14/23 12:54 AM, Jon Perryman wrote:
>> You're confusing z/OS with Unix where all programmers are >> systems programmers who can do anything they want. > No, I'm not confusing z/OS with Unix. > I'm speaking agnosticly about any OS that will run on the platform; > z/OS, VM, z/TPF, or even Linux. Of course you are confusing z/OS mentality with UNIX mentality. Based on your expectations of z/OS, you come from the Unix world. In z/OS, we expect accounting programmers to expand their knowledge about accounting instead learning to make their programs perform better. There are sysprogs who monitor and solve performance problems. If you want more control over your life, then become a z/OS sysprog. > What is better for the business, discouraging people from learning Do you sleep during your yearly performance review when they discuss advancement? Every manager I had discusses personal and job growth which included at least 1 self-improvement item. Do you feel the need to go behind their backs when there is something that you want to learn? How much control do you need? > If anything the cost of the system implies that it will be more > difficult for newcomers to gain access to the platform to learn. What difficulty for a newcomer are you talking about? IBM has a free learning platform that is available for newcomers. If a newcomer is hired, then the company has a learning plan in place > What gives you the impression that any and all things to be investigated > don't go through the change approval board and don't have managerial support. Are you saying they were told you needed 100GB but they simply forgot to approve that as part of the request? > My experience is that these older DR systems gain some additional value > to the business if they are /also/ used to host sandbox VMs / LPARs. Are you saying that as a programmer, you were trained on the implications of using these DR systems? There are monthly hardware, software, personnel and facilities costs which is different for everyone. How is it that as a programmer, you know all about it? >> Programmers leave z/OS for Unix in order to be in full control. > I've never heard that before. > I question the veracity of the idea that everything is about control. How long are you willing to be a cobol programmer? If you never heard that, then you must have your head buried in the sand because it comes up every couple of years. >> Why do you think it's difficult to get z/OS programmers. > Would you rather have someone that blindly follows directions We don't ask people to follow blindly. Instead, we don't give them another option. JCL, VSAM, availability to specific products and more ensure you are choosing wisely. Kurbernettes containers, cloud and more are implemented by sysprogs in a manner that meets the business needs. > I can't think of a single instance that providing a test / sandbox / lab > instance has been a net negative. Are you a sysprog? You're not thinking hard enough. Are you dealing with a service provider or are you a service provider? Are you using provisioning or some other pricing schedule? You have to look for negatives to find them. > If you believe that proof of concepts are not necessary, I never made that claim. I do however question the wisdom of letting everyone do proof of concept for anything they desire. > Nothing about a what I'm advocating for negates, sidesteps, or > usurps change control or approval process. Stop using motivated reasoning. The storage admin gives you 100 bytes of storage but you want 100GB. You don't think his limit should apply to you and therefore don't consider this part of the approval process. You directly want to usurp the approval process otherwise we wouldn't be discussing it. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
