I wonder if IBM (or maybe the Univ. of Waterloo?) could ever be talked into putting the DCF/SCRIPT source code (including the companion programs) into the public domain for open-source maintenance and enhancement.
Do either IBM or U. of Waterloo still charge money for either those products? Peter From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List <[email protected]> On Behalf Of Seymour J Metz Sent: Thursday, October 16, 2025 11:43 AM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: Newer SYSPROGs If you build a PDF right it's searchable, but you still have the alias issue. My solution, which will never happen, is DCF II, a reimplementation of SCRIPT with the constraints massively relieved, and available for Linux, with concurrent reimplementation of the companion programs. ________________________________________ From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List <mailto:[email protected]> on behalf of Eric Rossman <mailto:[email protected]> Sent: Thursday, October 16, 2025 8:48 AM To: mailto:[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]> Subject: Re: Newer SYSPROGs True. As long as the PDF viewer in use supports it, you can use #page=xx to open to a specific page. All that said, the core problem remains the searchability of the information. It's two problems in one: First, the information isn't always organized well, making it harder to find something that is documented. Second, oftentimes, the searcher knows something about what they are looking for BUT they don't use the exact keyword(s) needed to narrow down to the relevant information. I'm actively working at fixing the first problem (please send me comments about the ICSF pubs if you have helpful suggestions!) and would love to help with the second problem. I just need some thoughts on what is most often tripping people up. Eric Rossman -----Original Message----- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List <mailto:[email protected]> On Behalf Of Seymour J Metz Sent: Thursday, October 16, 2025 8:42 AM To: mailto:[email protected] Subject: [EXTERNAL] Re: Newer SYSPROGs (was Re: Political topics) You can link to a page in a PDF. ________________________________________ From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List <mailto:[email protected]> on behalf of Colin Paice <mailto:[email protected]> Sent: Thursday, October 16, 2025 2:49 AM To: mailto:[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]> Subject: Re: Newer SYSPROGs (was Re: Political topics) I write blogs and refer to documentation. It is so useful when you can link directly to the topic or paragraph, rather than a chapter or larger entity. I use PDF for reading, but HTML pages to link to a topic. On Thu, Oct 16, 2025, 07:51 Abe Kornelis <mailto:[email protected]> wrote: > All, > > For documentation to be useful, the information in it has to be findable. > > Creating good structure and properly indexing and cross-referencing all > information in any sizeable library is a daunting task. > > I am currently upgrading the documentation for our team's product. > Using AI (here we go again) helps, although results are still tentative. > I mean, the jury is still out, but it looks like it will help reduce the > task > from 'Herculean' to 'manageable'. I hope it will. > > Software without documentation is as useful as gasoline without a car. > > Kind regards & Happy programming! > Abe > > On 16/10/2025 00:16, Phil Smith III wrote: > > That's an excellent point! "Documentation? What documentation??" My wife > bought a neck massager that has an 18-page manual, and I was astounded that > it was that long in this modren day and age. > > > > The shift from "Here's the IBM doc library for <x>" to "Just Google it" > has also led to reduced focus on structuring the documentation library, I > fear. That's surely not fixable: doc is seen as a pure cost, I think. IBM > is not going to rehire the legions of Information Developers that used to > exist. > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List <mailto:[email protected]> On > Behalf Of Lennie Bradshaw > > Sent: Wednesday, October 15, 2025 2:06 PM > > To: mailto:[email protected] > > Subject: Re: Newer SYSPROGs (was Re: Political topics) > > > > Sadly, much software on other platforms today has far less > documentation. This leads to low expectations that an answer might be > found. Instead, answers are found in forums. Perhaps we need to emphasise > that IBM mainframe systems manuals are rather more comprehensive and can be > used as a first source of information. > > > > Lennie > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List <mailto:[email protected]> On > Behalf Of David Purdy > > Sent: 15 October 2025 18:25 > > To: mailto:[email protected] > > Subject: Re: Newer SYSPROGs (was Re: Political topics) > > > > Our first response to a question is;What did the manual say? > > Our second response is:Don't use ChatGPT > > On Wednesday, October 15, 2025 at 12:59:09 PM EDT, Jousma, David < > mailto:[email protected]> wrote: > > > > Changed the subject to keep Darren’s feathers down… > > > > As entrenched system programmers most of us are from decades of > experience, we really need to take a softer tone that some here have > mentioned. First off, let’s not scare away newbies from the platform, but > sometimes just a pointer to which manual they can go looking at is all that > is needed. > > > > My mentor used to ask me what I was looking at that I didn’t > understand. And if I replied that I hadn’t looked, well then he pointed me > to the manual. For me, I’ve learned more about everything else by > searching the manual for what I really wanted. After awhile it all starts > to fit together. > > > > From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List <mailto:[email protected]> on > behalf of Seymour J Metz <mailto:[email protected]> > > Date: Wednesday, October 15, 2025 at 12:44 PM > > To: mailto:[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]> > > Subject: Re: Political topics > > > > I used to phrase it as "Which part of the explanation is unclear"; maybe > they legit did RTFM and the information was ambiguous or flat wrong. > > > > Yes, that last does happen, and I can't reaonably expect a user to > recognize and deal with it. > > > > -- > > ________________________________________ > > From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List <mailto:[email protected]> on > behalf of Jay Maynard <mailto:[email protected]> > > Sent: Wednesday, October 15, 2025 9:34 AM > > To: mailto:[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]> > > Subject: Re: Political topics > > > > > > I try hard to always say which FM and where the information is in it > when saying RTFM. > > > > On Wed, Oct 15, 2025 at 8:06 AM Seymour J Metz <mailto:[email protected]> > > wrote: > > > >> Always verify that the relevant information is in TFM before saying > RTFM. > >> In fact, verify that it is not hidden away. > >> > > -- > > Jay Maynard This message and any attachments are intended only for the use of the addressee and may contain information that is privileged and confidential. 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