On 8/1/13 11:14 AM, Andy Bierman wrote:
> Hi,
>
> Isn't it obvious why humming is flawed and raising hands works?
> (Analog vs. digital). A hand is either raised or it isn't.
> The sum of all hands raised is comparable across tests.
> The sum of the amplitude of all hums is not.
Consensus for any particular outcome is in the end a judgment call.
> Andy
>
> On Thu, Aug 1, 2013 at 1:50 AM, Ralph Droms <rdroms.i...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> I found the process in the 6tsch BoF (Tue 1520) for asking about taking on
>> the work discussed in the BoF to be thought-provoking.
>>
>> Toward the end of the BoF, the chairs asked the question "1. Is this a topic
>> that the IETF should address?" First, the chairs asked for a hum. From my
>> vantage point (middle of the room), the hum was pretty close to equal,
>> for/against. I reviewed the audio
>> (http://www.ietf.org/audio/ietf87/ietf87-bellevue-20130730-1520-pm2.mp3,
>> starting about 1:22), and heard a slightly louder hum "for". The BoF chairs
>> decided they needed more information than they could extract from the hum,
>> so they asked for a show of hands. From the audio record, there were "a
>> lot" for (which matches my recollection) and "a handful" against (my memory
>> is that no hands showed against). There was a request to ask for a show of
>> hands for "how many don't know". The question was asked, and the record
>> shows "a dozen".
>>
>> So, there was apparently a complete change in the answer to the question
>> based on humming versus voting. There may also have been some effect from
>> asking, after the fact, for a show of hands for "don't know".
>>
>> I'm really curious about the results, which indicate that, at least in this
>> case, the response to the question is heavily dependent on the on the mode
>> used to obtain the answers to the question (which we all know is possible).
>> In particular, the effect of humming versus show of hands was pretty
>> obvious. draft-resnick-on-consensus gives several reasons why humming is
>> preferred over a show of hands. From this example, it seems to me to be
>> worth considering whether a more honest and accurate result is obtained
>> through humming rather than a show of hands.
>>
>> The other question raised in my mind is why the initial result from the hum,
>> which did not have a consensus either way, was not sufficient. "Roughly the
>> same response" for/against the question would seem to me to be as valid a
>> result as explicit consensus one way or the other, and the act of taking a
>> show of hands to survey the appeared to treat the hum as irrelevant, rather
>> than highly significant.
>>
>> - Ralph
>>
