we have never voted at IETFs. "we believe in rough consensus and running code"
/bill On 1August2013Thursday, at 2:14, A ndy Bierman wrote: > Hi, > > Isn't it obvious why humming is flawed and raising hands works? > (Analog vs. digital). A hand is either raised or it isn't. > The sum of all hands raised is comparable across tests. > The sum of the amplitude of all hums is not. > > > Andy > > On Thu, Aug 1, 2013 at 1:50 AM, Ralph Droms <rdroms.i...@gmail.com> wrote: >> >> I found the process in the 6tsch BoF (Tue 1520) for asking about taking on >> the work discussed in the BoF to be thought-provoking. >> >> Toward the end of the BoF, the chairs asked the question "1. Is this a topic >> that the IETF should address?" First, the chairs asked for a hum. From my >> vantage point (middle of the room), the hum was pretty close to equal, >> for/against. I reviewed the audio >> (http://www.ietf.org/audio/ietf87/ietf87-bellevue-20130730-1520-pm2.mp3, >> starting about 1:22), and heard a slightly louder hum "for". The BoF chairs >> decided they needed more information than they could extract from the hum, >> so they asked for a show of hands. From the audio record, there were "a >> lot" for (which matches my recollection) and "a handful" against (my memory >> is that no hands showed against). There was a request to ask for a show of >> hands for "how many don't know". The question was asked, and the record >> shows "a dozen". >> >> So, there was apparently a complete change in the answer to the question >> based on humming versus voting. There may also have been some effect from >> asking, after the fact, for a show of hands for "don't know". >> >> I'm really curious about the results, which indicate that, at least in this >> case, the response to the question is heavily dependent on the on the mode >> used to obtain the answers to the question (which we all know is possible). >> In particular, the effect of humming versus show of hands was pretty >> obvious. draft-resnick-on-consensus gives several reasons why humming is >> preferred over a show of hands. From this example, it seems to me to be >> worth considering whether a more honest and accurate result is obtained >> through humming rather than a show of hands. >> >> The other question raised in my mind is why the initial result from the hum, >> which did not have a consensus either way, was not sufficient. "Roughly the >> same response" for/against the question would seem to me to be as valid a >> result as explicit consensus one way or the other, and the act of taking a >> show of hands to survey the appeared to treat the hum as irrelevant, rather >> than highly significant. >> >> - Ralph >>
