On Nov 14, 2007 2:23 PM, Manoj Srivastava <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > On Wed, 14 Nov 2007 13:14:32 +0530, Shamail Tayyab > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> said: > > > This is what i consider as flame wars. > > Err. I am not sure why you think so -- no one is going around > attacking other people. > > > But what i think Kazim was > > trying to say was not actually what it seems, i myself is a Debian > > user from a long time, its not like defending someone, but why we > > don't look at small facts, like, > > >> I need to configure glx before i can run any 3D desktop client. I > > I have never had to configure glx to do anything special. What > exactly did you have to do? And what is a "3D desktop client"? > > I did have t configure /etc/X11/xorg.conf, with help from > dexconf, but I consider that normal -- and I did not have to deal with > the bloatedness of Gnome or KDE, which is hard to escape, I am told, in > Ubuntu. >
It seems that i am not that skilled as much as you are, though i think i can answer all the queries, and still can prove my point! Let me go particular... Firstly, i was talking in general, what an average human being thinks... With 3D desktop i meant compiz, beryl, fusion etc. (now please dont say, i should have said compiz fusion) in deb, one needs to edit xorg.conf to add glx in the module section... leave it let dexconf do it... all of us know you consider it normal... you consider, not a newbie. This is your personal opinion about gnome or kde, but it doesn't counts in user-friendliness - our actual point of discussion > > > >> need to edit ALSA configuration to have my system defaults its sound > >> to software mixer, which is preconfigured in ubuntu. > > I do not understand what defaulting sound to software mixer > means. I made sure that my kernel had my sound driver compiled as a > module, and it all worked. Even the buttons on the outside of the > laptop work, and are supported by Xorg. > Have you experienced something like, changing of volume doesn't function? This happens because in many cases, hardware volume mixer doesn't work, the best solution is to keep aside the hardware, and control the volume using software mixer... ubuntu defaults to it. Means in every case, either your card is being rendered properly or not, volume control will work for sure. Try Intel 915 on debian and change PCM level... you'll realize. Manually, for this one has to write a plugin like this... http://alsa.opensrc.org/index.php/How_to_use_softvol_to_control_the_master_volume > I am using the Dell Precision M90 laptop with intel HD audio. > > >> I need to install everything in text mode. (does anyone think a > >> novice> user had a dream the night before he installed debain, to give > > "installgui" at the boot prompt) > > Well, the novice user would, if they had read the instructions. > I am not sure I have much sympathy for people who can't read the > installation instructions. > > Secondly, I have no idea why X is so much better than the curses > based install; I prefer the curses, personally, since it is faster. And > I was able to install a fully encrypted partition, with LVM on top, > entirely from the install. > Again you are giving your personal opinion, "I have no idea...". Why do you think others have to do anything with your idea?? Do you think they don't have brains to form their opinion about curses and X? > > And, despite it all being encrypted -- it suspends to ram, and > suspends to disk, all by itself. > > Try doing a fully encrypted (all but boot -- and yes, the swap > is encrypted, and still resume works) in either Fedora or Ubuntu. User > friendly, my foot. > Had you used a bit better way of talking on a such a big mailing list, where you are representing yourselves among more than 6000 people, i'ld have been much interested in answering this as well. Really, this was not expected... from a person like you. I've seen your profile. So my dear friend... keep your calm. This is not a battle field. > > >> I myself need to edit sources.list, <defaults to an empty file > >> in debian> to get aptitude working. > > This happens not to be the case. D-I creates an sources.list. > Please tell me what D-I is? In my case, i've got an empty file after install. > > >> Its the end of 2007, and i still log in for the first time in the > > traditional old gnome theme. Same with other desktop environments. > > Thankfully, Debian allows me _not_ to log into either GNOME or > KDE. And configuring themes is an easy, one time thing; giving me the > choices I want is far more user friendly than going for eye candy by > default. Are GNIOME themese so very hard to change? I was assured that > changing themes is easy -- in which case, what does it matter what the > initial theme is? > Yes, this matters... means debi is good that they provide no theme, and rest of 4786 distro developers are mad enough to waste their time and resources in creating a custom feel of their distro. Ridiculous! > > >> One needs to download or what i did, steal bash_completion to get the > > better environment support. > > What on earth are you talking about? Look at the end of the > post, as I demonstrate how loads of packages install bash_completions > automatically. Try "dlocate /etc/bash_completion" > I knew that! But you still have to do much to get bash auto complete things the way ubuntu does! try giving a command on ubuntu that exists but the package is not installed... u'll realize > > I don't think you are talking about Debian. > Do! I am talking about the very same, and for your sake of information, this mail is being typed on Debian itself in iceweasel web browser. > > > // And many of hue and tricks, which are there in distros like fedora > > // and ubuntu... > > And also in Debian, from what I can tell. Try installing a > non-GNOME non-KDE desktop in Ubuntu. Hah. > Again, may be this comes to surprise to you, I am a user of window maker. I dont use KDE and GNOME, from the very beginning i am talking as from a newbie. > > > Are these things justified for a person just starting his journey > > of GNU/Linux. And answer yourself, how many of power users you have > > seen, recommending Debian for novices? Yes its true that Debian is > > providing a real stable system, but i don't think its doing much in > > terms of user-friendliness, what other trends are driving Linux > > to.... Anyhow, this is my personal opinion, maybe they want a raw > > distro! > > Frankly, I think this is just plain old FUD. I think that user > friendliness has also rests in the choices offered; and the ojly users > to be friendly to are not the novice ones. > It depends, no one can do anything if you consider it FUD. Giving an example, tell me honestly, in your life time, how many computer or your friends/neighbours, you have seen buying a system and asking for a GNU/Linux system? Had you taken it as a public opinion, instead of cross commenting, then a bit of scope improvement may be seen! > > Every single thing you have said is for the distribution to make > choices on behalf og novice users -- which, BTW, is extremely > unfriendly to non-novice users. > > manoj > > __> dlocate /etc/bash_completion > dbs: /etc/bash_completion.d > dbs: /etc/bash_completion.d/dbs-edit-patch > reprepro: /etc/bash_completion.d > reprepro: /etc/bash_completion.d/reprepro > bash: /etc/bash_completion.d > bash: /etc/bash_completion > dpatch: /etc/bash_completion.d > dpatch: /etc/bash_completion.d/dpatch_edit_patch > stgit: /etc/bash_completion.d > stgit: /etc/bash_completion.d/stg > debtags: /etc/bash_completion.d > debtags: /etc/bash_completion.d/debtags > pbuilder: /etc/bash_completion.d > pbuilder: /etc/bash_completion.d/pbuilder > apt-file: /etc/bash_completion.d > apt-file: /etc/bash_completion.d/apt-file > inkscape: /etc/bash_completion.d > inkscape: /etc/bash_completion.d/inkscape > cdcd: /etc/bash_completion.d > cdcd: /etc/bash_completion.d/cdcd > svn-buildpackage: /etc/bash_completion.d > svn-buildpackage: /etc/bash_completion.d/svn-buildpackage > git-completion: /etc/bash_completion.d > git-completion: /etc/bash_completion.d/cg > git-completion: /etc/bash_completion.d/gitk > git-completion: /etc/bash_completion.d/git-common > debconf: /etc/bash_completion.d > debconf: /etc/bash_completion.d/debconf > debfoster: /etc/bash_completion.d > debfoster: /etc/bash_completion.d/debfoster > rake: /etc/bash_completion.d > rake: /etc/bash_completion.d/rake > quintuple-agent: /etc/bash_completion.d > quintuple-agent: /etc/bash_completion.d/quintuple-agent > xen-tools: /etc/bash_completion.d > xen-tools: /etc/bash_completion.d/xen-tools > xen-tools: /etc/bash_completion.d/xm > quilt: /etc/bash_completion.d > quilt: /etc/bash_completion.d/quilt > apache2.2-common: /etc/bash_completion.d > apache2.2-common: /etc/bash_completion.d/apache2.2-common > nmh: /etc/bash_completion.d > nmh: /etc/bash_completion.d/nmh > dput: /etc/bash_completion.d > dput: /etc/bash_completion.d/dput > surfraw: /etc/bash_completion.d > surfraw: /etc/bash_completion.d/surfraw > git-core: /etc/bash_completion.d > git-core: /etc/bash_completion.d/git > rubygems: /etc/bash_completion.d > rubygems: /etc/bash_completion.d/gem > mercurial: /etc/bash_completion.d > mercurial: /etc/bash_completion.d/mercurial > cowdancer: /etc/bash_completion.d > cowdancer: /etc/bash_completion.d/cowbuilder > jackd: /etc/bash_completion.d > jackd: /etc/bash_completion.d/jackd > subversion: /etc/bash_completion.d > subversion: /etc/bash_completion.d/subversion > openoffice.org-common: /etc/bash_completion.d > openoffice.org-common: /etc/bash_completion.d/ooffice.sh > bzr: /etc/bash_completion.d > bzr: /etc/bash_completion.d/bzr > bzr: /etc/bash_completion.d/bzr.simple > r-base-core: /etc/bash_completion.d > r-base-core: /etc/bash_completion.d/R > mpc: /etc/bash_completion.d > mpc: /etc/bash_completion.d/mpc > module-assistant: /etc/bash_completion.d > module-assistant: /etc/bash_completion.d/m-a > konwert: /etc/bash_completion.d > konwert: /etc/bash_completion.d/konwert > kernel-package: /etc/bash_completion.d > kernel-package: /etc/bash_completion.d/make_kpkg > > -- > A lot of people are afraid of heights. Not me. I'm afraid of > widths. Steven Wright > Manoj Srivastava <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> <http://www.golden-gryphon.com/> > 1024D/BF24424C print 4966 F272 D093 B493 410B 924B 21BA DABB BF24 424C > > > _______________________________________________ > ilugd mailinglist -- ilugd@lists.linux-delhi.org > http://frodo.hserus.net/mailman/listinfo/ilugd > Next Event: http://freed.in - February 22/23, 2008 > Archives at: http://news.gmane.org/gmane.user-groups.linux.delhi > http://www.mail-archive.com/ilugd@lists.linux-delhi.org/ > > I am sorry for any sort of harsh language, if i had used... but i don't think this is the way to cross comment a post! This is mailing list, with users from across the globe... You are representing the iLugD, what impact does it carry (may be you are trying to show off your knowledge, well i am sorry for this, but it seems to be the truth)? Anyways... Regards -- Shamail Tayyab shamail [at] inbox.com 4 2 3 2 4 9 9 9 9 9 - 1 9 + (right to left without spaces) <<Bringing Linux and Mobiles one step closer>> Blog at: http://tuxatwork.blogspot.com _______________________________________________ ilugd mailinglist -- ilugd@lists.linux-delhi.org http://frodo.hserus.net/mailman/listinfo/ilugd Next Event: http://freed.in - February 22/23, 2008 Archives at: http://news.gmane.org/gmane.user-groups.linux.delhi http://www.mail-archive.com/ilugd@lists.linux-delhi.org/
