I have read this tread and thought I would throw in my 2 cents. As someone who used Orbz.org, I am sorry to see it gone. The reason that orbz.org was better than other similar lists is that it was devoid of human egos. An IP was sent to Orbz.org, it performed a series of tests on the mail server, if you where an open relay you were listed. No value judgments. The majority of Ips submitted to Orbz.org were submitted via "connection harvesting." All of my IMGate machines were configured to send all Ips that connected to my servers to Orbz.org to be tested. Send an email to my server, you where scanned.
Orbz's test software was not where the problem existed, and I can agree with Ian's position on not making a special allowance for Domino. The message format that caused the problem, was an RFC valid address "bounce@[127.0.0.1]". The issue here is that Lotus had a bug in their software that caused the problem. Had Orbz.org made a special case in the test suite, then Ian would have only had 2 choices available: Block all Domino Servers, or not test Domino Servers. The first choice would have resulted in a legal quagmire in that Orbz.org was incorrectly listing sites that may or may not have been open relays. In the second case, then anyone running Domino would have been given a free ride, thus negating the existence of Orbz.org. On the issue of blocking sites or not blocking sites. That is a decision that every provider/company has to make for themselves. Orbz.org was not the blocking anything. Those of us that chose to make the use of the lists, were the ones performing the blocking, which is within our legal right. As it is Orbz.org's legal right to publish a DNS zone of open relay's. The only hazy legal issue is, if legally Orbz.org can perform open relay testing on behalf of third parties. That is why my SMTP Banner informs everyone that sends mail to my server that they are subject to open relay testing. With Orbz.org gone, I have moved to using dnsbl.njabl.org. Just something to ponder. Thanks, David Sparkman -----Original Message----- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] On Behalf Of Don Schreiner Sent: Thursday, March 21, 2002 10:43 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: [IMail Forum] ORBZ shut down Good point and thanks for clarifying the ORBZ issue. The "Joe the Lawyer" post I thought was originally referencing blocking e-mail and which was not legal. I was mixing the 2 incidents/issues and stand corrected. I feel the same regardless about the Spam issues raised, especially since e-mail accounts are not identified as a child vs. adult. Don > -----Original Message----- > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:IMail_Forum- > [EMAIL PROTECTED]] On Behalf Of Christopher Ulrich > Sent: Thursday, March 21, 2002 10:54 PM > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Subject: RE: [IMail Forum] ORBZ shut down > > > >He apparently does not agree with filtering e-mail for Spam. Does he > agree > >that it is right for un-solicited Porn to be received by children or > >anyone for that matter? If he does agree, then how is this different > >from un-solicited e-mail for Time-Share travel, Life Insurance, and the > >next get rich quick scam? > > There is a HUGE difference legally when you are dealing with children. > > >Sorry to be so verbose, but it just ticks me off what I am seeing > >happening and those who are responsible sending Spam and then actually > >believing they should have the God given right to do so. > > No problem! But remember - the suit doesn't have to do with SPAM. > It has to do with the DOS attack against people's servers from ORBZ. > That's the difference in this case. The press talks about it in terms of > SPAM and ANTI-SPAM, but it is really a DOS attack based on a > software bug AND the continued intentional use of the software with > the bug after the bug was found and not fixed. That - the knowing > crashing > of other people's servers - is the basis of the action (and possible > criminal > action), and has nothing to do with SPAM > > The rest is "spin" to sell newspapers.... But don't get me started on the > media... : ) > > Chris > > > > >Don S. > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:Declude.JunkMail- > > > [EMAIL PROTECTED]] On Behalf Of Tom > > > Sent: Thursday, March 21, 2002 7:59 PM > > > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > Subject: RE: [Declude.JunkMail] ORBZ - More info > > > > > > > > > > Ahh... my 2 cents anyway. I just feel no one has the right to send > >me > > > > crap I did not ask for, especially PORN solicitations into my > >children's > > > > e-mail box. Perhaps I am wrong legally as it relates to free rights > >and > > > > e-mail solicitations, but the PORN solicitation alone is enough to > >keep > > > > me fighting for my rights to block SPAM. > > > > > > Another way to look at things would be to check out the court cases > >where > > > Corporations have sued their employees for misuse of e-mail. > > > > > > In any case if it is your system you can do whatever you want with it. > > > If the customers don't like it, too bad! You own it, you paid for it, > > > and you maintain it. It's that simple! > > > > > > What does this mean? If you write an e-mail to a friend your BOSS, > >the > > > or ISP (owner of the equipment) has the right to view it. Just like > >the > > > FBI and CIA. This is why we stress the use of PGP! > > > > > > Anyway, just my 2 cents! > > > > > > PS: Don't reply to me if you want to argue, I just wanted to give > > > another view point. > > > > > > Regards, > > > Tom > > > --- > > > [This E-mail was scanned for viruses by Declude Virus > > > (http://www.declude.com)] > > > > > > --- > > > > > > This E-mail came from the Declude.JunkMail mailing list. To > > > unsubscribe, just send an E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED], and > > > type "unsubscribe Declude.JunkMail". You can E-mail > > > [EMAIL PROTECTED] for assistance. You can visit our web > > > site at http://www.declude.com . > > > ---------- > > > [This e-mail scanned by CompBiz for Viruses. http://www.CompBiz.Net] > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:IMail_Forum- > > > [EMAIL PROTECTED]] On Behalf Of Len Conrad > > > Sent: Thursday, March 21, 2002 7:37 PM > > > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > Subject: Re: [IMail Forum] ORBZ shut down > > > > > > > > > >This is just another case of "if you block it you are liable". This > >guy > > > is > > > >apparently going to have criminal charges brought against him. That > > > should > > > >be a major wake up call for any of you blocking messages! > > > > > > I'm well awake. I will continue blocking messages for whatever > >reasons I > > > want. AND, I sleep better knowing IMGate will catch the crap before > >it > > > hits my mailbox server. > > > > > > But, it would be a LOT easier (less false positives) if total > >nincompoop, > > > air-head admins, eg: Battle Creek lady who is trying to cover her > > > incompetent @ss with this lawyering BS, would set up their mail > >servers > > > and > > > DNS's correctly, and run current software. > > > > > > Len > > > > > > > > > http://MenAndMice.com/DNS-training > > > http://BIND8NT.MEIway.com : ISC BIND for NT4 & W2K > > > http://IMGate.MEIway.com : Build free, hi-perf, anti-abuse mail > >gateways > > > > > > > > > Please visit http://www.ipswitch.com/support/mailing-lists.html > > > to be removed from this list. > > > > > > An Archive of this list is available at: > > > http://www.mail-archive.com/imail_forum%40list.ipswitch.com/ > > > > > > Please visit the Knowledge Base for answers to frequently asked > > > questions: http://www.ipswitch.com/support/IMail/ > > > ---------- > > > [This e-mail scanned by CompBiz for Viruses. http://www.CompBiz.Net] > > > > > > > >Please visit http://www.ipswitch.com/support/mailing-lists.html > >to be removed from this list. > > > >An Archive of this list is available at: > >http://www.mail-archive.com/imail_forum%40list.ipswitch.com/ > > > >Please visit the Knowledge Base for answers to frequently asked > >questions: http://www.ipswitch.com/support/IMail/ > > > Please visit http://www.ipswitch.com/support/mailing-lists.html > to be removed from this list. > > An Archive of this list is available at: > http://www.mail-archive.com/imail_forum%40list.ipswitch.com/ > > Please visit the Knowledge Base for answers to frequently asked > questions: http://www.ipswitch.com/support/IMail/ > ---------- > [This e-mail scanned by CompBiz for Viruses. http://www.CompBiz.Net] Please visit http://www.ipswitch.com/support/mailing-lists.html to be removed from this list. An Archive of this list is available at: http://www.mail-archive.com/imail_forum%40list.ipswitch.com/ Please visit the Knowledge Base for answers to frequently asked questions: http://www.ipswitch.com/support/IMail/ Please visit http://www.ipswitch.com/support/mailing-lists.html to be removed from this list. An Archive of this list is available at: http://www.mail-archive.com/imail_forum%40list.ipswitch.com/ Please visit the Knowledge Base for answers to frequently asked questions: http://www.ipswitch.com/support/IMail/
