Well spoken William, however it's regretful that Ipswitch either don't get it or just plain don't care! Either way this is going to end up biting them pretty hard. I really don't even see how they will be able to continue unless they do a total 180, but I am not there looking at this from their perspective.
There are some other companies out there that sell something like ICS, but most of them realize that not everyone is going to want it, so they are still offering email server only solutions. I am no expert on marketing, but I am not an idiot either. My guess is those offering both are the ones that will be making the most money and having a future. Who on earth would want to take a chance on a case to case basis for future servers or maybe purchasing a backup server? I am still curious about this secret case to case basis. Why is that Ipswitch? What is your line of logic and how will you decide? We don't what to hear another that depends either! -----Original Message----- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of William Van Hefner Sent: Tuesday, November 09, 2004 12:42 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: [IMail Forum] OT: Need to Vent - SPF Jill, So, let me get this straight... * It is possible that if I need to add another Imail install, due to an unexpected influx of new business, Ipswitch might refuse to sell me another license to extend the number of users. * Even if Ipswitch does agree, the list price of Imail is a "secret", and will never be revealed to the general public. * Imail's very existence as a stand-alone product is also a "secret", with no mention being made of it anywhere on Ipswitch's website, and no orders for it from new customers being solicited. * You may decide to charge me more or less for your product than you charge other customers, with some "secret" internal policy being used in order to decide pricing for each customer. It could be $1,000 or $10,000. * If I call Ipswitch on two different occasions regarding pricing, I may get two entirely different answers. * If I call in as a different customer, I may get entirely different treatment, depending upon your unknown "case by case" policies. * All pricing and availability issues are subject to change at any given moment, with little or no notice. In fact, statements made by Ipswitch regarding Imail's development may be changed several times during the course of a few weeks! * Price increases are being made simply in order to make the company (more) profitable, and will not go towards improving the product or its support. We should have no expectations of your current support improving in any manner. * Ipswitch is losing money by selling what most agree to be sub-standard support at prices well above most of its competitors. In fact, the future of the product has absolutely NOTHING to do with technical direction, but with whatever direction it takes to shore-up what by all outward appearances seems to be a fiscally mis-managed company. Give me a break!!! What other company does business like this??? In my opinion, in order for Ipswitch to have an actual future, what it needs is a specialist in corporate restructuring and a "hatchet man" to come in and get rid of the "dead wood", which there seems to be quite a bit of at Ipswitch. This most probably means key executives that are clearly mismanaging the company. Instead of possibly sacrificing their own jobs for the sake of the company, Ipswitch's executives have decided to lay the burden upon what they believe to be a "captive audience", their server customers. This is a band-aid, at best. If Ipswitch can't make a profit under its current pricing structure, something (or someone) is VERY wrong with your company. Even a consumer math graduate such as myself can spot that. Until Ipswitch decides to take measures to address this core problem, we will continue to see desperate actions such as have occurred in the past two weeks. Until I see signs that Ipswitch as a company has begun to take their own problems seriously, I will continue to research alternatives, just as I was actually encouraged to do by Ipswitch. William Van Hefner Network Administrator Vantek Communications, Inc. http://www.vantekcommunications.com > -----Original Message----- > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Jill Jones > Sent: Monday, November 08, 2004 8:08 AM > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Subject: RE: [IMail Forum] OT: Need to Vent - SPF > > > Hi David, > > These are the types of questions that we wish to take on a > case-by-case basis. Everyone's situation is different and we > do not want to make a blanket statement as policy to address > these. I realize that this does not answer the questions you > have asked below, if you have specific cases that require > answers and/or quotes, please call your reseller or customer > service/Sales. > > Best regards, > Jill > > -----Original Message----- > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of David Gregg > Sent: Monday, November 08, 2004 10:50 AM > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Subject: Re: [IMail Forum] OT: Need to Vent - SPF > > Jill, > > I appreciate the position you are in but really need to get > answers to the > following: > 1) Can IMail owners, regardless of SA status, buy additional > licenses for > their own company? > 2) Can IMail owners, regardless of SA status, buy new > licenses for their > clients' companies? > 3) Can a non-IMail owner contract Ipswitch and purchase the > stand-alone > product? > > and finally.. > 4) what is the cost for each of the above 'case by case' scenarios? > > Thanks again for your attention to this matter. > > Regards, > > David Gregg > dgSoft Internet Services > +1.949.584-1514 > > --- > mxGuard for IMail > Adds anti-spam *and* anti-virus capabilities to your IMail > server. $99 unlimited domains/users. No service agreements. > > Download and install a free trial version today. > http://www.mxGuard.com/Postmaster/FreeTrial.asp > --- > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Jill Jones" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Sent: Monday, November 08, 2004 7:37 AM > Subject: RE: [IMail Forum] OT: Need to Vent - SPF > > > > Hi David, > > > > We have stated that any customer looking to purchase > stand-alone IMail > > should call us and we will consider each situation. > > > > Jill > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of > David Gregg > > Sent: Monday, November 08, 2004 10:28 AM > > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > Subject: Re: [IMail Forum] OT: Need to Vent - SPF > > > > Hi Jill, > > > > I've seen multiple posts from Ipswitch staff indicating support for > > existing > > > > customers (i.e. SA are available). What I have not seen is a > > definitive statement on whether or not the stand-alone > product can be > > purchased and if so, what the price will be. > > > > Please advise... > > > > Regards, > > > > David Gregg > > dgSoft Internet Services > > +1.949.584-1514 > > > > --- > > mxGuard for IMail > > Adds anti-spam *and* anti-virus capabilities to your IMail > server. $99 > > unlimited domains/users. No service agreements. > > > > Download and install a free trial version today. > > http://www.mxGuard.com/Postmaster/FreeTrial.asp > > --- > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Jill Jones" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > Sent: Monday, November 08, 2004 6:36 AM > > Subject: RE: [IMail Forum] OT: Need to Vent - SPF > > > > > >> Hi All, > >> > >> I believe that we have made it clear on a number of > occasions that we > >> intend to enhance and support the core IMail product as it > is central > >> to ICS. Features like SPF will absolutely be added to > IMail and will > >> be available to > >> those users who have IMail Service Agreements. > >> > >> Best regards, > >> Jill > >> > >> -----Original Message----- > >> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > >> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Ted > >> Galerneau > >> Sent: Sunday, November 07, 2004 5:11 PM > >> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > >> Subject: RE: [IMail Forum] OT: Need to Vent > >> > >> I know exactly what you mean Darin, and you could be > totally right. > >> Dang, I hate it whenever I am undecided about something > and feel like > >> I don't want > >> to move forwards until it's solved. > >> > >> I could easily just buy Declude and hang in here, but the > fact that > >> some of the other email servers sell for less than the price of > >> Declude pro and some > >> others for less than the cost of Declude's yearly SA > alone. Declude has > >> many > >> features you will not find in other email server > offerings, however some > >> of > >> the other email servers don't have features that Declude > with Imail has. > >> The > >> cost of a yearly SA for both Declude and Imail would > easily pay for a > >> full > >> unlimited license of several different email server > offerings that come > >> with > >> a year of support and upgrades. A subsequent upgrade SA from those > >> companies > >> is much less than it would be with IMail and Declude > together and some > >> are > >> even less that the cost of a Declude SA. If a person is > willing to deal > >> with > >> FreeBSD, there are some really powerful offerings out > there for free. > >> > >> Ipswitch knows that we have a known stable product to work > with and > >> tons of support right here on this forum. Most other email servers > >> are an unknown to > >> us and don't have the support community that Imail does. I > suspect that > >> is > >> part of their motivating factor for the new pricing scam. > If you don't > >> pay > >> more for the SA, you would need to eventually buy ICS > whenever something > >> breaks the Imail core and an upgrade is mandatory, which > has happened > >> before > >> and will likely happen again in the future! > >> > >> The only other thing I have left to consider is about trust and > >> ethics. After all Ipswitch has done and their weak attempt > to smooth > >> things over, there are new questions. Can we trust them to > not bind > >> any of the new features that we need only to ICS and not > the core? If > >> they are greedy enough to pull what they've already done > on us, would > >> they be greedy enough to do that? Take a feature like SPF for > >> instance as they could easily code > >> it to only work with ICS and not with just the core Imail, > then give some > >> lame excuse about the way the code works not allowing them > to do it that > >> way. I am not implying they would do this for sure, I am > just saying they > >> could if they wanted to. I've said before and I will say > again, once > >> corporate greed sets in, it spreads like a cancer! This is > the real > >> reason > > > >> I > >> am having trouble deciding if I want to stay with IMail or > what other > >> product to go with for our email needs. It's now more about ethics > >> and trust to me that it is the money. If I wait and > continue and use > >> Imail in our newest idea, it means that needing to change > later could > >> break what I would > >> be building around Imail. It may be easier to just fix it > now rather than > >> wait and gamble that Imail will do the right things from here on. > >> > >> What say you Ipswitch management? I believe this is the > second time > >> I've asked for an official response about this possible issue. > >> > >> > >> -----Original Message----- > >> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > >> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Darin Cox > >> Sent: Sunday, November 07, 2004 6:30 AM > >> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > >> Subject: Re: [IMail Forum] OT: Need to Vent > >> > >> I really doubt this. It's very hard to get everyone to > agree to new > >> standards, as all of the big players will be fighting for > their own > >> agendas. Take a look at what has happened to SPF as an example. > >> <Snip> > >> > >> > >> To Unsubscribe: http://www.ipswitch.com/support/mailing-lists.html > >> List Archive: > >> http://www.mail-archive.com/imail_forum%40list.ipswitch.com/ > >> Knowledge Base/FAQ: http://www.ipswitch.com/support/IMail/ > >> > >> > >> To Unsubscribe: http://www.ipswitch.com/support/mailing-lists.html > >> List Archive: > >> http://www.mail-archive.com/imail_forum%40list.ipswitch.com/ > >> Knowledge Base/FAQ: http://www.ipswitch.com/support/IMail/ > >> > > > > > > To Unsubscribe: http://www.ipswitch.com/support/mailing-lists.html > > List Archive: > > http://www.mail-archive.com/imail_forum%40list.ipswitch.com/ > > Knowledge Base/FAQ: http://www.ipswitch.com/support/IMail/ > > > > > > To Unsubscribe: http://www.ipswitch.com/support/mailing-lists.html > > List Archive: > > http://www.mail-archive.com/imail_forum%40list.ipswitch.com/ > > Knowledge Base/FAQ: http://www.ipswitch.com/support/IMail/ > > > > > To Unsubscribe: http://www.ipswitch.com/support/mailing-lists.html > List Archive: > http://www.mail-archive.com/imail_forum%40list.ipswitch.com/ > Knowledge Base/FAQ: http://www.ipswitch.com/support/IMail/ > > > To Unsubscribe: http://www.ipswitch.com/support/mailing-lists.html > List Archive: > http://www.mail-archive.com/imail_forum%40list.ipswitch.com/ > Knowledge Base/FAQ: http://www.ipswitch.com/support/IMail/ > > To Unsubscribe: http://www.ipswitch.com/support/mailing-lists.html List Archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/imail_forum%40list.ipswitch.com/ Knowledge Base/FAQ: http://www.ipswitch.com/support/IMail/ To Unsubscribe: http://www.ipswitch.com/support/mailing-lists.html List Archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/imail_forum%40list.ipswitch.com/ Knowledge Base/FAQ: http://www.ipswitch.com/support/IMail/
