In the interest of focusing discussion, it seems like a good
idea to collect and consolidate ones votes on this sub-thread.
So with that in mind, mine are inline below...
On Fri, 22 Jun 2007, Glynn Foster wrote:
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Glynn,
I have a couple of questions on the specific requirements below. On
general question is are the requirements within a section (such as
"Installation") ordered by priority?
Some of the requirements probably need some thought about the order - especially
those requirements that go hand in hand with having a useful system ie. you
can't really have one without the other.
In the case of Installation, I believe the current ordering to be ok.
Also, is there a general prioritization here or could priorities be
assigned to the individual items as you see them? For example, are
there a set of items that are "must haves" for a meaningful, first
Indiana distribution?
I believe having a set of requirements that provides a good step on the ladder
without shooting ourselves in the foot on subsequent releases is obviously
preferred. However, I'm just as open to suggestions for how to prioritize. As
I've mentioned before, I'd be happy for a first release if we only had an
install and package management infrastructure that was developed to the stage
where it would be possible to extend later on. I would personally rate those 2
sections higher than some of the others because in essence, they are enablers
for future work.
+1. In fact this would get my strongest support, FWIW. Namely, that the
1st release focuses mainly on two things: network repository based package
mgmnt and installation. (More below...)
3.1) Installation
INS-1: Provide infrastructure to install Indiana from
a single CD. The default install should be a
graphical experience, with a text console install
if preferred. The core install will be a basic
operating system and desktop environment.
There appear to be two distinct requirements being called out here.
The first, let's called it INS-1a, is around an installer that's build
around a CD rather than a DVD. The second, let's called it INS-1b,
concerns the default set of components/functionality delivered with the
CD. Is that correct?
Sounds reasonable.
Concerning INS-1b, what are the specific features that the installed OS
should provide? I realize the common thing to do will be to use
something that satisfies PKG-2 to download other components but is
there an expectation around this initial installation? Some examples
here include: which (productivity) tools? which languages? which
hardware drivers besides the obvious ones concerning the disk and
network?
I had hoped to work on an initial list of packages that would be available on a
default install. I haven't unfortunately got to that work, but if we could
assume that it includes everything from a core install, desktop environment and
associated dependencies.
I would personally be basing that work heavily from
http://www.gnome.org/~gman/ubuntu-pkg-list.txt
Aside from a few things (which presumably are part of the current package
dependency list), it's a pretty good start.
+1.
[As an aside, I was absolutely *shocked* when I put my Ubuntu CD into a running
Windows environment to see they had additional space to add open source
components that could be installed and run on Windows too. I'm seriously
impressed with their ability to cram all that on a single CD]
INS-3: Any installation should be aware of existing
installed operating systems, prompt the user
for an appropriate action and intuitive
steps to carry out that action, particularly
with respect to re-partitioning if
necessary.
Some additional clarification of this requirement would be helpful.
How integrated should this repartitioning tool be with the installer
itself? Which existing operating systems should the installer be aware
of? Which partition types need to be supported on x86/x64 systems for
installation (and subsequent boot?)
No, I don't believe it's necessary to have a repartitioning tool with the
installer. The installer should be nominally aware of Windows and Linux at the
very least. I honestly don't know what the answer to the last question is -
probably nothing more than what is currently supported in Solaris.
I vote to make it a higher priority. That is, given how
useful a repartitioning tool is, plus, given the low "cost" of
including one (assuming we could borrow the one Moinak developed).
INS-4: A LiveCD should be available for a 'try first,
install later' experience. The LiveCD functionality
should be integrated into the core install CD.
Given how little a CD can hold, how important is that the "live" media
actually be a CD versus something like a DVD? If the requirement is
really around a CD, again what are the attributes/features that the
live environment should contain? Which tools, languages, drivers,
Q: As with Network Auto-Magic (below), given that INS-4 (LiveCD) is already
part of OpenSolaris via the Live Media project, are there any specific
enhancements desired?
Regarding CD vs. DVD: I agree with those who would make CD a high priority
for the 1st release. I'm pretty sure (but admittedly not totally sure) the
BeleniX user community experience would support this position as well.
Also, e.g. siting Alberto Ruiz yesterday: "much much more people than
expected don't have DVD readers yet, even with" ...
I believe crucial as a long term goal is to see the LiveCD be part of the
install CD. However, that shouldn't stop anyone being able to construct a
LiveDVD themselves with additional software available. The LiveCD does not need
to contain any additional software that the install CD doesn't already have in
my opinion.
3.4) Laptop Support
LAP-1: Provide a utility to generate feedback for system
configurations that are being installed, and build
a basic public hardware compatibility list. Provide
drivers for the most popular configurations.
There also seem to be two distinct requirements specified here. The
first, let's called it LAP-1a, seem to express a requirement for a tool
which generates a system report and makes it available to be used to
build a HCL. Or is it to have a tool like the Sun Device Detection
Tool run before or during installation to identify whether the target
machine is suitable for a Indiana installation?
I believe the former. While the current Sun Device Detection tool is very useful
in informing users about whether it is likely that there will be drivers to
support their system, I believe the former is useful for collecting basic
information about what our users are running on, and as such developing a set of
priorities for hardware types that we may want to write support for in the
future.
+1.
The other requirement, let's called it LAP-1b, seems to call out the
need for more drivers. If that's the case, then there needs to be much
more specific requirements around which devices are important.
This should be considered a long term goal. Perhaps the requirement is to gather
the list of 'known' currently available drivers that are suitable to ship with
the distribution.
+1.
Does this narrow things down, or do I need to do some investigation?
LAP-3: The system should automatically connect to an available
network, whether through a network cable or wireless
connection.
Given that Network Auto-Magic Phase 0 is already part of OpenSolaris,
what specific enhancements are meant by this requirement?
Possibly none. Given that we have this infrastructure, and roadmap, I think
including it 'as is' is fine.
+1.
Thanks,
Eric
P.S. +1000 to the progress this new sub-thread represents!
LAP-4: Any system connected up to an external video projector
should work without needing added configuration.
"Any" covers a awfully lot of systems. :-) Is there a list of the more
important ones given that we're talking about video drivers here?
This is similar to LAP-1b. I think we need to do what we can in the short term
until we start generating better metrics for what systems our users are
installing on. Sorry for it being so vague.
Glynn
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