Glad my input is appreciated.
Best Wishes,
Chris Chadwell
81 Parlaunt Road
SLOUGH
SL3 8BE
UK
www.shpa.org.uk
From: J.M. Garg <[email protected]>
To: C CHADWELL <[email protected]>
Cc: efloraofindia <[email protected]>; D.S Rawat
<[email protected]>; Satish Phadke <[email protected]>
Sent: Friday, 9 December 2016, 23:53
Subject: Re: Fwd: Fwd: [efloraofindia:258728] Re: Plumbaginaceae, Primulaceae
& Myrsinaceae Fortnight 1-14June2014: Primula petiolaris(?) from
Uttarakhand_DSR_22
Thanks a lot, Chadwell ji.It is all because you requested that we take his
opinion in this matter.
On 9 December 2016 at 22:21, C CHADWELL <[email protected]> wrote:
It is so helpful to receive input from those with the maximum
knowledge/familiarity with a genus, especiallyfor examples we have been
uncertain about.
Naturally, it is of special interest to members of this group, when a species,
subspecies or variety has their rangeextended into Indian territory or
recognised only in Indian territory.
As far as I know, Richards 'determination' (not sure if he would count it as
such) for this plant from Munsyari means this represents the first record of
Primula boothii in Uttarakhand, as is the case for Primula gracilipes from Gori
Valley.
Best Wishes,
Chris Chadwell
81 Parlaunt Road
SLOUGH
SL3 8BE
UK
www.shpa.org.uk
From: J.M. Garg <[email protected]>
To: efloraofindia <indiantreepix@googlegroups. com>
Cc: D.S Rawat <[email protected]> ; Satish Phadke
<[email protected]>
Sent: Friday, 9 December 2016, 12:20
Subject: Fwd: Fwd: [efloraofindia:256995] Re: Plumbaginaceae, Primulaceae &
Myrsinaceae Fortnight 1-14June2014: Primula petiolaris(?) from
Uttarakhand_DSR_22
Thanks a lot, Richards ji.
---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: JOHN RICHARDS
Date: 9 December 2016 at 15:36
Subject: Re: Fwd: [efloraofindia:256995] Re: Plumbaginaceae, Primulaceae &
Myrsinaceae Fortnight 1-14June2014: Primula petiolaris(?) from
Uttarakhand_DSR_22
To: "J.M. Garg" <[email protected]>
Dear Mr Garg,Many thanks for sending these images. They are of P. boothii, not
P. petiolaris or P. gracilipes. Both the former species have much shorter
flower stems. For P. boothii please note the following characters:no farinalong
slender usually reddish flower stemscalyx which is angled, due to each sepal
being keeled (like a house roof)often (not always) red colour in leaf veins
etcThis is a forest species from Annapurna eastwards to west Bhutan. Most
flower in April, but there is an autumn flowering subspecies ssp. autumnalis,
also a stoloniferous ssp. repens.
John Richards
On Friday, 9 December 2016, 5:46, J.M. Garg <[email protected]> wrote:
Hi, Richards ji,May I request you to pl. help in the matter as requested by
Chris Chadwell ji.
---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: J.M. Garg <[email protected]>
Date: 6 December 2016 at 13:02
Subject: Fwd: [efloraofindia:256995] Re: Plumbaginaceae, Primulaceae &
Myrsinaceae Fortnight 1-14June2014: Primula petiolaris(?) from
Uttarakhand_DSR_22
To: efloraofindia <indiantreepix@googlegroups. com>
Cc: "D.S Rawat" <[email protected]>
Forwarding again for Id assistance please.Some earlier relevant feedback:
| Thanks for sending additional images. I will quote further from 'Primula'
which states that few species have been so misunderstood as Primula petiolaris.
As the earliest described species in the section it was used as a dustbin
during the 19th century, most petiolarids being assigned to it. As the section
became better understood, most of these were split off but so few specimens of
the type plant existed that they were misinterpreted.
Unfortunately, Wallich's type specimen was collected in the summer with a few
off-season flowers, so it has summer leaves with long petioles untypical of the
usual flowering conditions (hence the name of this species, and indeed the
section). Further it was not realized that flowers of pink petiolarids dry
blue. Many 19th Century pressed specimens had few, if any field notes - a
situation which, regrettably has continued with too many Indian botanists
gathering scrappy, often poor pressed specimens and almost no field notes (such
as flower colour) to make attempts to reliable identify more difficult to name
primulas (and other genera) that much harder (to impossible).
Anyhow, according to Richards the plant photographed above Munsyari is not
P.petiolaris. It is a shame that the calyces photographed are not in focus.
They are supposed to be tightly clasps, blunter lobes. There is a total
absence of meal plus cup-shaped flowers, tight, crisped rosette at flowering
with almost stem-less flowers. It is also smaller.
The authors of Flora of Bhutan speak of differences between forms of
P.petiolaris in Bhutan and those in Nepal. It may well be forms in Uttarkhand
are somewhat different as well, so their comments as to Bhutanese and Sikkimese
specimens might not apply further West?
IF this plant is P.gracilipes then it has not been recorded from what was
Kumaon previously. As the differences have been so poorly understood, the old
records are probably somewhat meaningless and few in number.
As Richards thinks P.gracilipes could be considered a subspecies of
P.petiolaris, his opinion, should, for the present, rank the highest. It would
be helpful if someone could forward these images and accompanying information
to him, for his thoughts.
In the mean time, how about calling these plants Primula petiolaris sensu lato
or Primula petiolaris subspecies gracilipes? Or Primula sp. aff. petiolaris?
This indicates the uncertainty.
If group members can send in more good-quality images of petiolarids (and all
other primulas for that making) with close-up, in focus images of flowers
(upper and lower surface of petals, sepals, stalks, upper and lower leaf
surfaces) plus good field notes, then this will help us clarify the situation.
Without more images showing all the necessary characteristics of a number of
other collections, it is impossible to add much to the uncertainty which seems
to remain.
So, I hope group members are inspired to get up into the mountains to look for
Primulas - in the case of the petiolarids, they are not found at extreme
altitudes or terrain, so most members should be able to undertake the required
treks/walks.
Look forward to lots of Primula images in 2017.
Best Wishes,
Chris Chadwell
|
| |
| |
---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: D.S Rawat <[email protected]>
Date: 18 November 2016 at 15:12
Subject: Re: [efloraofindia:256995] Re: Plumbaginaceae, Primulaceae &
Myrsinaceae Fortnight 1-14June2014: Primula petiolaris(?) from
Uttarakhand_DSR_22
To: efloraofindia <indiantreepix@googlegroups. com>
Cc: chrischadwell261@btinternet. com, [email protected]
Attaching more images as desired.
This primula was shot above Munsyari (Pithoragarh District, Kumaon,
Uttarakhand) at an elevation of about 2600-2700m. It was growing on a moist
vertical mossy slope in second fortnight of March 2013. As I understand with
increasing spring temperature the habitat was becoming drier. Some tetramerous
flowers are also visible (marked in image-2).
DSRawat Pantnagar
On Friday, November 18, 2016 at 2:24:32 PM UTC+5:30, JM Garg wrote:
Thanks a lot, Chadwell ji, for looking at all posts in this genera in
efi.Catalogue of life states Primula petiolaris Wall. to be an accepted name.
May I request Rawat ji to pl. post other images.
On 10 November 2016 at 05:05, [email protected] m
<[email protected] om> wrote:
I am unsure about this. Richards observes that few species have been so
misunderstood as Primula petiolaris Wallich.
I see that it is no longer an accepted number in 'The Plant List'. So what has
replaced it? Primula gracilipes perhaps?
It is still on the 'Primula World' site but the only images are of cultivated
plants and some of these could easily be hybrids.
Cannot say the image shot in Uttarakhand matches the images on the above site.
According to Richards it is found in Nepal & Sikkim plus two early records from
Kumaon. Flowers of Himalaya says Uttaranachal to Sikkim @ 2400-3600m.
Richards says throughout Nepal sometimes growing and hybridising with Primula
gracilipes.
I am uncertain as to the differences between P.petiolaris and P.gracilipes.
They are closely related. Richards considers the latter might well be
considered a subspecies of the former! Differing in the almost stemless (those
in the photo do have stalks), tightly clasped blunter sepal-lobes (which cannot
be observed in the image) and the total absence of meal - though sometimes meal
is not prominent.
Is there anyone who can comment with authority? And tell us the correct
nomenclature/taxonomic treatment?
Flowers of the Himalaya say that Primula gracilipes is the most frequent
petiolarid Primula in Bhutan (and Sikkim). They consider P,petiolaris much
smaller and the two may be CONSPECIFIC i.e. being the same species!
On Thursday, June 12, 2014 at 9:31:07 AM UTC+1, D.S Rawat wrote:
This Primulaalso shot in Munsyari area Uttarakhand resembles to Primula
petiolaris Wallich with its irregularly toothed petals.Validation (orotherwise)
is requested.
Dr D.S.RawatDepartment of Biological Sciences, G.B. Pant University of
Agriculture & Technology Pantnagar-263 145 Uttarakhand, INDIA
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For identification,learning, discussion & documentation of Indian Flora, please
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With regards,
J.M.Garg'Creating awareness of IndianFlora & Fauna'Winner of Wipro-NFS Sparrow
Awards 2014 for efloraofindia.
For identification,learning, discussion & documentation of Indian Flora, please
visit/ joinour EfloraofindiaGoogle e-group (largestin the world- around 2700
members & 2,40,000 messages on 31.3.16) orEfloraofindia website (with a species
database of more than11,000 species & 2,20,000 images). The whole world uses my
Image Resource of more than a thousand species & eight thousand images of
Birds, Butterflies, Plants etc. (arranged alphabetically & place-wise). You can
also use them for free as per Creative Commons license attached with each
image.Also author of 'APhotoguide to the Birds of Kolkata & Common Birds of
India'.
--
With regards,
J.M.Garg'Creating awareness of IndianFlora & Fauna'Winner of Wipro-NFS Sparrow
Awards 2014 for efloraofindia.
For identification,learning, discussion & documentation of Indian Flora, please
visit/ joinour EfloraofindiaGoogle e-group (largestin the world- around 2700
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Image Resource of more than a thousand species & eight thousand images of
Birds, Butterflies, Plants etc. (arranged alphabetically & place-wise). You can
also use them for free as per Creative Commons license attached with each
image.Also author of 'APhotoguide to the Birds of Kolkata & Common Birds of
India'.
--
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For identification,learning, discussion & documentation of Indian Flora, please
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Birds, Butterflies, Plants etc. (arranged alphabetically & place-wise). You can
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