Thanks a lot, Richards ji. ---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: JOHN RICHARDS Date: 9 December 2016 at 15:36 Subject: Re: Fwd: [efloraofindia:256995] Re: Plumbaginaceae, Primulaceae & Myrsinaceae Fortnight 1-14June2014: Primula petiolaris(?) from Uttarakhand_DSR_22 To: "J.M. Garg" <[email protected]>
Dear Mr Garg, Many thanks for sending these images. They are of P. boothii, not P. petiolaris or P. gracilipes. Both the former species have much shorter flower stems. For P. boothii please note the following characters: no farina long slender usually reddish flower stems calyx which is angled, due to each sepal being keeled (like a house roof) often (not always) red colour in leaf veins etc This is a forest species from Annapurna eastwards to west Bhutan. Most flower in April, but there is an autumn flowering subspecies ssp. autumnalis, also a stoloniferous ssp. repens. John Richards On Friday, 9 December 2016, 5:46, J.M. Garg <[email protected]> wrote: Hi, Richards ji, May I request you to pl. help in the matter as requested by Chris Chadwell ji. ---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: *J.M. Garg* <[email protected]> Date: 6 December 2016 at 13:02 Subject: Fwd: [efloraofindia:256995] Re: Plumbaginaceae, Primulaceae & Myrsinaceae Fortnight 1-14June2014: Primula petiolaris(?) from Uttarakhand_DSR_22 To: efloraofindia <[email protected]> Cc: "D.S Rawat" <[email protected]> Forwarding again for Id assistance please. Some earlier relevant feedback: Thanks for sending additional images. I will quote further from 'Primula' which states that few species have been so misunderstood as Primula petiolaris. As the earliest described species in the section it was used as a dustbin during the 19th century, most petiolarids being assigned to it. As the section became better understood, most of these were split off but so few specimens of the type plant existed that they were misinterpreted. Unfortunately, Wallich's type specimen was collected in the summer with a few off-season flowers, so it has summer leaves with long petioles untypical of the usual flowering conditions (hence the name of this species, and indeed the section). Further it was not realized that flowers of pink petiolarids dry blue. *Many 19th Century pressed specimens had few, if any field notes - a situation which, regrettably has continued with too many Indian botanists gathering scrappy, often poor pressed specimens and almost no field notes (such as flower colour) to **make attempts to reliable identify more difficult to name primulas (and other genera) that much harder (to impossible).* Anyhow, according to Richards the plant photographed above Munsyari is not P.petiolaris. It is a shame that the calyces photographed are not in focus. They are supposed to be tightly clasps, blunter lobes. There is a total absence of meal plus cup-shaped flowers, tight, crisped rosette at flowering with almost stem-less flowers. It is also smaller. The authors of Flora of Bhutan speak of differences between forms of P.petiolaris in Bhutan and those in Nepal. It may well be forms in Uttarkhand are somewhat different as well, so their comments as to Bhutanese and Sikkimese specimens might not apply further West? IF this plant is P.gracilipes then it has not been recorded from what was Kumaon previously. As the differences have been so poorly understood, the old records are probably somewhat meaningless and few in number. *As Richards thinks P.gracilipes could be considered a subspecies of P.petiolaris, his opinion, should, for the present, rank the highest. It would be helpful if someone could forward these images and accompanying information to him, for his thoughts.* *In the mean time, how about calling these plants Primula petiolaris sensu lato or Primula petiolaris subspecies gracilipes? Or Primula sp. aff. petiolaris? This indicates the uncertainty.* *If group members can send in more good-quality images of petiolarids (and all other primulas for that making) with close-up, in focus images of flowers (upper and lower surface of petals, sepals, stalks, upper and lower leaf surfaces) plus good field notes, then this will help us clarify the situation.* *Without more images showing all the necessary characteristics of a number of other collections, it is impossible to add much to the uncertainty which seems to remain.* *So, I hope group members are inspired to get up into the mountains to look for Primulas - in the case of the petiolarids, they are not found at extreme altitudes or terrain, so most members should be able to undertake the required treks/walks.* *Look forward to lots of Primula images in 2017.* Best Wishes, Chris Chadwell ---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: *D.S Rawat* <[email protected]> Date: 18 November 2016 at 15:12 Subject: Re: [efloraofindia:256995] Re: Plumbaginaceae, Primulaceae & Myrsinaceae Fortnight 1-14June2014: Primula petiolaris(?) from Uttarakhand_DSR_22 To: efloraofindia <indiantreepix@googlegroups. com <[email protected]>> Cc: chrischadwell261@btinternet. com <[email protected]>, [email protected] Attaching more images as desired. This primula was shot above Munsyari (Pithoragarh District, Kumaon, Uttarakhand) at an elevation of about 2600-2700m. It was growing on a moist vertical mossy slope in second fortnight of March 2013. As I understand with increasing spring temperature the habitat was becoming drier. Some tetramerous flowers are also visible (marked in image-2). DSRawat Pantnagar On Friday, November 18, 2016 at 2:24:32 PM UTC+5:30, JM Garg wrote: Thanks a lot, Chadwell ji, for looking at all posts in this genera in efi. Catalogue of life <http://www.catalogueoflife.org/col/details/species/id/4c16f03bb909a78dc595a58aacaf4294> states *Primula petiolaris *Wall. to be an accepted name. May I request Rawat ji to pl. post other images. On 10 November 2016 at 05:05, [email protected] m <[email protected]> <[email protected] om <[email protected]>> wrote: I am unsure about this. Richards observes that few species have been so misunderstood as Primula petiolaris Wallich. I see that it is no longer an accepted number in 'The Plant List'. *So what has replaced it? Primula gracilipes perhaps?* It is still on the 'Primula World' site but the only images are of cultivated plants and some of these could easily be hybrids. Cannot say the image shot in Uttarakhand matches the images on the above site. According to Richards it is found in Nepal & Sikkim plus two early records from Kumaon. Flowers of Himalaya says Uttaranachal to Sikkim @ 2400-3600m. Richards says throughout Nepal sometimes growing and hybridising with Primula gracilipes. *I am uncertain as to the differences between P.petiolaris and P.gracilipes. They are closely related. Richards considers the latter might well be considered a subspecies of the former! Differing in the almost stemless (those in the photo do have stalks), tightly clasped blunter sepal-lobes (which cannot be observed in the image) and the total absence of meal - though sometimes meal is not prominent. * *Is there anyone who can comment with authority? And tell us the correct nomenclature/taxonomic treatment?* *Flowers of the Himalaya say that Primula gracilipes is the most frequent petiolarid Primula in Bhutan (and Sikkim). They consider P,petiolaris much smaller and the two may be CONSPECIFIC i.e. being the same species!* On Thursday, June 12, 2014 at 9:31:07 AM UTC+1, D.S Rawat wrote: This Primula also shot in Munsyari area Uttarakhand resembles to *Primula petiolaris* Wallich with its irregularly toothed petals. Validation (or otherwise) is requested. Dr D.S.Rawat Department of Biological Sciences, G.B. Pant University of Agriculture & Technology Pantnagar-263 145 Uttarakhand, INDIA -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "efloraofindia" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to indiantreepix+unsubscribe@goog legroups.com <[email protected]>. To post to this group, send email to [email protected] . Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/grou p/indiantreepix <https://groups.google.com/group/indiantreepix>. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/op tout <https://groups.google.com/d/optout>. -- With regards, J.M.Garg 'Creating awareness of Indian Flora & Fauna' <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Jmgarg1> Winner of Wipro-NFS Sparrow Awards 2014 for efloraofindia <https://sites.google.com/site/efloraofindia/award-for-efloraofindia>. For identification, learning, discussion & documentation of Indian Flora, please visit/ join our Efloraofindia Google e-group <https://groups.google.com/forum/#!forum/indiantreepix> (largest in the world- around 2700 members & 2,40,000 messages on 31.3.16) or Efloraofindia website <https://sites.google.com/site/efloraofindia/> (with a species database of more than 11,000 species & 2,20,000 images). The whole world uses my Image Resource <http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Category:J.M.Garg> of more than a thousand species & eight thousand images of Birds, Butterflies, Plants etc. (arranged alphabetically & place-wise). You can also use them for free as per Creative Commons license attached with each image. Also author of 'A Photoguide to the Birds of Kolkata & Common Birds of India'. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "efloraofindia" group. 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For identification, learning, discussion & documentation of Indian Flora, please visit/ join our Efloraofindia Google e-group <https://groups.google.com/forum/#!forum/indiantreepix> (largest in the world- around 2700 members & 2,40,000 messages on 31.3.16) or Efloraofindia website <https://sites.google.com/site/efloraofindia/> (with a species database of more than 11,000 species & 2,20,000 images). The whole world uses my Image Resource <http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Category:J.M.Garg> of more than a thousand species & eight thousand images of Birds, Butterflies, Plants etc. (arranged alphabetically & place-wise). You can also use them for free as per Creative Commons license attached with each image. Also author of 'A Photoguide to the Birds of Kolkata & Common Birds of India'. -- With regards, J.M.Garg 'Creating awareness of Indian Flora & Fauna' <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Jmgarg1> Winner of Wipro-NFS Sparrow Awards 2014 for efloraofindia <https://sites.google.com/site/efloraofindia/award-for-efloraofindia>. For identification, learning, discussion & documentation of Indian Flora, please visit/ join our Efloraofindia Google e-group <https://groups.google.com/forum/#!forum/indiantreepix> (largest in the world- around 2700 members & 2,40,000 messages on 31.3.16) or Efloraofindia website <https://sites.google.com/site/efloraofindia/> (with a species database of more than 11,000 species & 2,20,000 images). The whole world uses my Image Resource <http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Category:J.M.Garg> of more than a thousand species & eight thousand images of Birds, Butterflies, Plants etc. (arranged alphabetically & place-wise). You can also use them for free as per Creative Commons license attached with each image. Also author of 'A Photoguide to the Birds of Kolkata & Common Birds of India'. -- With regards, J.M.Garg 'Creating awareness of Indian Flora & Fauna' <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Jmgarg1> Winner of Wipro-NFS Sparrow Awards 2014 for efloraofindia <https://sites.google.com/site/efloraofindia/award-for-efloraofindia>. For identification, learning, discussion & documentation of Indian Flora, please visit/ join our Efloraofindia Google e-group <https://groups.google.com/forum/#!forum/indiantreepix> (largest in the world- around 2700 members & 2,40,000 messages on 31.3.16) or Efloraofindia website <https://sites.google.com/site/efloraofindia/> (with a species database of more than 11,000 species & 2,20,000 images). The whole world uses my Image Resource <http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Category:J.M.Garg> of more than a thousand species & eight thousand images of Birds, Butterflies, Plants etc. (arranged alphabetically & place-wise). You can also use them for free as per Creative Commons license attached with each image. Also author of 'A Photoguide to the Birds of Kolkata & Common Birds of India'. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "efloraofindia" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to [email protected]. To post to this group, send an email to [email protected]. Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/indiantreepix. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
