Hmm kalo kasus maling ketangkap basah, itu kan udah terbukti bersalah - bukan kasus yg tepat utk "praduga tak bersalah" walaupun saya bisa menangkap maksudnya, bahwa harus di pengadilan kan dulu.. namun bagaimanapun kasus kyk gitu perlu tindak cepat kan? banyak kasus dimana pemilik rumah terbunuh gara2 kalah cepat mendeteksi si perampok. kalo udah taruhan nyawa begini, apa masih sempat memikirkan praduga tak bersalah? in this cruel world: kill or be killed.
beda lagi kalo kasusnya ketangkep rame2 bukan di TKP, maka kan tidak sampe taruhan nyawa [kecuali dia melawan]. nah itu baru bisa ada kesempatan utk "mendiskusikan HAM" ttg teroris, menarik sekali kalo kita ingat dulu penyerbuan di solo, banyak yg menyayangkan kenapa aparat menggunakan senjata pembunuh padahal dgn begitu maka upaya interogasi jadi terhenti. seolah2 di rumah teroris itu udah pasti bersalah, tidak apa2 menghancurkan semuanya - meskipun akhirnya pemilik rumah terbukti ga bersalah. masa ga bisa sih pake flashbang / concussion grenade / gas saraf? On 1/19/10, Ivan Alidjaja <[email protected]> wrote: > Kalau contohnya, di Star Trek itu yg termasuk civilized: Federation.. > Kalau yg 'tembak dulu, pengadilan belakangan' itu Borg.. > :-) > > > > ----- Original Message ---- > From: iful <[email protected]> > To: [email protected] > Sent: Tue, 19 January, 2010 9:57:12 AM > Subject: Re: [Indo-StarTrek] HUMAN RIGHT #11: We Are Always Innocent Until > Proven Guilty > > Yaap mengerti sekali dan benar susah diterapkan......itulah bedanya antara > mendapatkan sangsi hukum atau 'revenge' - balas dendam atas nama hukum. > > hmmm....keduanya menghasilkan kondisi mental masyarakat yg berbeda tingkat > pemahaman thd hukum. > coba aja bandingkan "behavior " orang dari masyarakat yg mendapatkan > perlindungan hukum yg adil dan sebaliknya masyarakat tidak dpt kepastian > hukum (spt kita skrng) tehadap kasus contoh pencurian (kolor, > televisi)...walaupun orang tsb menangkap tangan si malaing....tetap saja > tidak akan main hakim sendiri....krn mereka yakin aparat hukum akan pasti > menangani sesuai kasusnya. umum cukup menelephon polisi. dst dst dst > > bandingkn di sini....baru ketangkap sdh diguyur bensin dan dibakar...paling > tidak sudah babak belur. > > /ivul > > 2010/1/19 Ivan Alidjaja <[email protected]> > >> >> >> Tapi emang susah sih 'ful. Coba loe dihadapkan ama teroris yg jelas2 ngaku >> ngebom kantor kita, yg mengakibatkan temen2 kita trauma, celaka dsb. >> Pastilah akan susah sekali menerapkan azas praduga tak bersalah itu...yg >> ada >> udah gemes duluan dan pengen rasanya maki2 si teroris tersebut.. >> >> Misalnya, ada maling ketangkep tangan di rumah lagi curi kolor, mesin cuci >> dan televisi. Nah, apakah kita masih bisa menerapkan azas praduga tdk >> bersalah atau men-judged si maling itu dengan kata2 makian dan kadang2 >> jurus2 silat sudah mulai berterbangan. Loe tau sendiri khan, si maling >> belum >> dinyatakan bersalah secara hukum SAMPAI pengadilan memutuskan hal >> tersebut... >> >> Bayangin seberapa geramnya anda kalo kolor anda digondol maling..hehehehe >> >> - >> Ivan >> >> PS. Para admiral mana nih? >> >> ________________________________ >> From: iful <[email protected] <iful.spock%40startrek.or.id>> >> >> To: [email protected] <indo-startrek%40yahoogroups.com> >> Sent: Tue, 19 January, 2010 9:24:41 AM >> >> Subject: Re: [Indo-StarTrek] HUMAN RIGHT #11: We Are Always Innocent Until >> Proven Guilty >> >> >> Praduga tak bersalah ---> seharusnya nih diduga sementara tidak bersalah >> tapi pembuktian hukum tetap dilaksaknakan sehingga ada pembuktian dan sah >> secara hukum (salah atau tidak bersalah)... dan selama pembutian >> "tersangka" >> tetap diperlakukan selayaknya manusia. yg berhak untuk tidak merasa >> 'takut' >> atau terintimidasi selama proses hukum berlangsung. >> >> kenyataannya. ...tau sendiri lah....kita salalu dibuat tidak "nyaman" kalo >> sdh berhubungan dng proses hukum, baik di sisi yg salah ataupun di sisi yg >> benar. >> KOndisi nyaman akan membuat tersangka yg terbukti bersalah akan merasa >> mendapatkan perlakuan adil ketika menerima hukuman. >> >> /ivul >> >> On Tue, Jan 19, 2010 at 8:16 AM, Ignatius Wibowo < >> wib...@artzdesign- studio.com> wrote: >> >> > Ngomong soal ini, sebenernya istilah 'praduga tak bersalah' itu bener >> gak? >> > Imho, istilah itu berarti diduga tidak bersalah. Jadi karena sudah >> > diduga >> > tak bersalah, ya gak usah dibuktikan lagi kan? Atau justru dicari bukti >> dia >> > gak bersalah. >> > >> > Kalo innocent until proven guilty kan artinya beda, bahwa orang itu >> > dianggap tidak bersalah (tapi tentunya diduga bahwa ia bersalah), sampai >> > ada bukti dia bersalah. >> > >> > Ribet, tapi istilah praduga tak bersalah sering dipakai untuk alasan >> > mengelak? >> > >> > Regards, >> > Ignatius Wibowo >> > =========== >> > Sent from my BlackBerry® >> > >> > -----Original Message----- >> > From: "ivan" <alidjajaivan@ yahoo.com. au> >> > Date: Tue, 19 Jan 2010 00:07:28 >> > To: <indo-startrek@ yahoogroups. com> >> > Subject: Re: [Indo-StarTrek] HUMAN RIGHT #11: We Are Always Innocent >> Until >> > Proven Guilty >> > >> > Di berbagai tempat, masih ada yg 'always guilty until proven innocent' . >> > Msh ingat kata2 'gantung dulu, pengadilan belakangan'. >> > >> > >> > >> > Sent from BlackBerry® through subspace channel >> > >> > >> > >> > -----Original Message----- >> > >> > From: "ER [Energy Revolution]" <erianto.rachman@ gmail.com> >> > >> > Date: Tue, 19 Jan 2010 06:48:45 >> > >> > To: <indo-startrek@ yahoogroups. com> >> > >> > Subject: [Indo-StarTrek] HUMAN RIGHT #11: We Are Always Innocent Until >> > Proven Guilty >> > >> > >> > >> > HUMAN RIGHT #11: >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > We Are Always Innocent Until Proven Guilty >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > Nobody should be blamed for doing something until it is proven. When >> people >> > >> > say we did a bad thing we have the right to show it is not true. >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > Please spend 1 minute of your time to watch this video. >> > >> > >> > >> > http://www.youtube. com/watch? v=RjnYRJ2PC_ 4 >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > Salam, >> > >> > >> > >> > ER >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- - >> > >> > >> > >> > Support Energy [R]evolution Now! >> > >> > >> > >> > www.human-earth. blogspot. com >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >> > >> > >> > >> > ------------ --------- --------- ------ >> > >> > ============ [indo-startrek@ yahoogroups. com]=========== >> > [Indo-StarTrek] Indonesian Star Trek Community >> > http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/indo- startrek >> > "...to boldly go where no Indonesian has gone before." >> > ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- ------ >> > Website: http://www.indo- startrek. org >> > Forum: http://www.indo- startrek. org/forum >> > Friendster: http://www.friendst er.com/isc2006 >> >> > Facebook: http://www.facebook .com/group. php?gid=37387153 891 >> > =/\= ============ ========= ========= ========= ========= = =/\=Yahoo! >> Groups >> >> > Links >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > ------------ --------- --------- ------ >> > >> > ============ [indo-startrek@ yahoogroups. com]=========== >> > [Indo-StarTrek] Indonesian Star Trek Community >> > http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/indo- startrek >> > "...to boldly go where no Indonesian has gone before." >> > ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- ------ >> > Website: http://www.indo- startrek. org >> > Forum: http://www.indo- startrek. org/forum >> > Friendster: http://www.friendst er.com/isc2006 >> >> > Facebook: http://www.facebook .com/group. php?gid=37387153 891 >> > =/\= ============ ========= ========= ========= ========= = =/\=Yahoo! >> Groups >> > Links >> > >> > >> > >> > >> >> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >> >> __________________________________________________________ >> See what's on at the movies in your area. Find out now: >> http://au.movies.yahoo.com/session-times/ >> >> >> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >> >> >> > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > ------------------------------------ > > ============[[email protected]]=========== > [Indo-StarTrek] Indonesian Star Trek Community > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/indo-startrek > "...to boldly go where no Indonesian has gone before." > ------------------------------------------------------ > Website: http://www.indo-startrek.org > Forum: http://www.indo-startrek.org/forum > Friendster: http://www.friendster.com/isc2006 > Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=37387153891 > =/\= ================================================= =/\=Yahoo! Groups > Links > > > > > > __________________________________________________________________________________ > See what's on at the movies in your area. Find out now: > http://au.movies.yahoo.com/session-times/ >
