Good to hear from you, Madhav. Yes, dialectal or śākhā differences may well play a role in some of the different characterizations; but the jihvāmūlīya one, as described, is difficult to accept – how could syllabic ṛ be articulated with a quarter-mora of uvular syllabic + half-mora alveolar nonsyllabic + quarter-mora of uvular syllabic? Doing so would require a more than unusual amount of articulatory acrobatics. The term jihvāmūlīya most likely refers to an early stage at which a was characterized as jihvāmūlīya, i.e. velar, and the term stuck for the syllabic portions of ṛ after a was reclassified as kaṇṭhya. (See George Cardona’s article, reference below, for this development.) At any rate, the term mürdhanya is not used in the early phonetic treatises.
As I recall, the term mūrdhanya is also used in some lateish phonetic treatises (e.g. the Pāṇinīya Śikṣā), but as in the Siddhāntakaumudī this no doubt reflects the influence of the grammarians. All the best, Hans Cardona, George. 1986. Phonology and phonetics in ancient Indian works: The case of voiced and voiceless elements. South Asian languages: Structure, convergence, and diglossia, ed. by Bh. Krishnamurti et al., 60-80. Delhi: Motilal Banarsidas On 28 Sep2021, at 21:05, Madhav Deshpande <[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>> wrote: Dear Hans, I have looked at these variant descriptions of the phonetics of r and r̥ as possible dialectal variations. But the technical requirements of Savarṇatva in Pāṇini's grammar may have exerted some influence on the phonetic descriptions found in relatively late texts reflected in works like the Siddhāntakaumudī of Bhaṭṭoji. Madhav Madhav M. Deshpande Professor Emeritus, Sanskrit and Linguistics University of Michigan, Ann Arbor, Michigan, USA Senior Fellow, Oxford Center for Hindu Studies Adjunct Professor, National Institute of Advanced Studies, Bangalore, India [Residence: Campbell, California, USA] On Tue, Sep 28, 2021 at 6:50 PM Hock, Hans Henrich <[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>> wrote: Hi, On the characterization of syllabic ṛ as jihvāmūlīya see the following 1992 article of mine. Were ṛ and ḷ velar in early Sanskrit? Vidyā-Vratin: Professor A. M. Ghatage felicitation volume, ed. by V. N. Jha, 69-94. (Sri Garib Dass Oriental Series, 160.) Delhi: Sri Satguru Publications, The characterization of ṛ and r as savarṇa with the mūrdhanya series is no doubt a phonological one – like ṣ they trigger natva. Phonetically this can be accounted for by the fact that both alveolar r/ṛ and retroflex ṣ are postdental and therefore farther back than dental n. Rather than inventing another term, similar to [- dental] of current western phonology, the Indian tradition used the existing term mūrdhanya to account for this shared behavior. All the best, Hans Henrich On 26 Sep2021, at 19:23, Jim Ryan via INDOLOGY <[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>> wrote: Hello, In response to this “phonetical” thread, the question persists for me why vocalic ṛ and consonantal ra are considered “savarṇas” in the mūrdhanya series. (Siddhānta Kaumudī I.10.) Currently. In all the Sanskrit regional “dialects" I know of they are pronounced, in whole or part, as alveolars. Are we to presume that somehow these once were actually cerebals. Or… was Pāṇini wrong, here? Jim Ryan On Sep 26, 2021, at 11:36 AM, Madhav Deshpande via INDOLOGY <[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>> wrote: Thanks, Harry, for sharing these articles. Best, Madhav Madhav M. Deshpande Professor Emeritus, Sanskrit and Linguistics University of Michigan, Ann Arbor, Michigan, USA Senior Fellow, Oxford Center for Hindu Studies Adjunct Professor, National Institute of Advanced Studies, Bangalore, India [Residence: Campbell, California, USA] On Sun, Sep 26, 2021 at 11:26 AM Harry Spier via INDOLOGY <[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>> wrote: Dear all, There are two articles by SK Chatterji written 25 years apart titled "The Pronounciation of Sanskrit" , same title, different articles. I'm attaching them for whoever is interested. Harry Spier On Sun, Sep 26, 2021 at 1:28 PM Hock, Hans Henrich via INDOLOGY <[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>> wrote: Dear All, As I recall, the issue of how Sanskrit is pronounced in modern (i.e. early 20th-century) India is addressed in an article by Suniti Kumar Chatterji – Chatterji, Suniti Kumar. The pronunciation of Sanskrit. Indian Linguistics, (1961) vol. 21, pp. 61-82. Originally: K. B. Pathak commemoration volume, 330-349. Bhandarkar Oriental Research Institute, 1934. For the ancient period, there are the Prātiśākhyas of course (the source for Allen’s and Verma’s publications; Vidhata Mishra largely repeats Verma). On the earliest recoverable pronunciation of syllabic ṛ as [ara] (with both [a]s a quarter mora), I have published a paper: Were ṛ and ḷ velar in early Sanskrit? Vidyā-Vratin: Professor A. M. Ghatage felicitation volume, ed. by V. N. Jha, 69-94. (Sri Garib Dass Oriental Series, 160.) Delhi: Sri Satguru Publications, 1992 To teach retroflex to American students I ask them to pronounce their r and, while they are doing so, press the tongue hard against the roof of the mouth, which produces a retroflex stop ṭ that is quite distinct from their t sound. In general, I have found it useful to adopt one of the regional variants of modern Indian pronounciations (I use the northern one with ri for ṛ and gy for jñ (while properly warning the students that these are modern pronunciations). By becoming familiar with this way of pronouncing Sanskrit students will find it easier to follow Indian Sanskritists when they are speaking/pronouncing Sanskrit. I also urge students to keep their aspirates and nonaspirates and their dentals and retroflexes as distinct as possible, telling them that when I was beginning to study Sanskrit I sometimes spent fruitless hours locating something in the dictionary because of looking up under the “wrong t”. I hope some of you will find these remarks interesting. All the best – stay safe, Hans Henrich _______________________________________________ INDOLOGY mailing list [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]> https://list.indology.info/mailman/listinfo/indology<https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://list.indology.info/mailman/listinfo/indology__;!!DZ3fjg!q7rUwQFwV_wezWmDeaHTu0h7NuLSygZidI8n7rAdIkLUPXsv3y8Hvu84j8EwWG7tKw$> _______________________________________________ INDOLOGY mailing list [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]> https://list.indology.info/mailman/listinfo/indology<https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://list.indology.info/mailman/listinfo/indology__;!!DZ3fjg!q7rUwQFwV_wezWmDeaHTu0h7NuLSygZidI8n7rAdIkLUPXsv3y8Hvu84j8EwWG7tKw$> _______________________________________________ INDOLOGY mailing list [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]> https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://list.indology.info/mailman/listinfo/indology__;!!DZ3fjg!q7rUwQFwV_wezWmDeaHTu0h7NuLSygZidI8n7rAdIkLUPXsv3y8Hvu84j8EwWG7tKw$
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