Dear Dr Ryan, This seems to have been a matter of debate within the tradition since quite some time; cf. Uvaṭa at *Ṛgvedaprātiśākhya* 1.1:
śikṣādibhir yat sāmānyenotsargeṇoktaṃ lakṣaṇam | yathā tāvac chikṣāyām syur mūrdhanyā ‘ṛṭuraṣāḥ’ sāmānyena sarvaśākhāsu repho mūrdhanya ity uktaḥ | tathānyasyāṃ śikṣāyām ‘dantamūlīyaḥ’ iti repho dantamūlīya uktaḥ | evaṃ sarvā śikṣā varṇeṣu sthānakaraṇānupradānādi sarvāsu śākhāsu vidadhāti | na tu niyamataḥ kasyāṃ śākhāyāṃ repho mūrdhanyaḥ kasyāṃ dantamūlīya iti | ata etad vyavasthāpakam ārabhyate ‘dantamūlīyas tu takāravargaḥ’ ‘sakārarephalakārāś ca’ ‘rephaṃ vartsyam eke’ | evam asyāṃ śākhāyāṃ dantamūlīyo vā vartsyo vā repha ity etad avadhāritam | In any case, one should always keep in mind that phonetics and phonology don't really have a one-to-one correspondence. All best, Giovanni Il giorno lun 27 set 2021 alle ore 02:23 Jim Ryan via INDOLOGY < [email protected]> ha scritto: > Hello, > > In response to this “phonetical” thread, the question persists for me why > vocalic ṛ and consonantal ra are considered “savarṇas” in the mūrdhanya > series. (Siddhānta Kaumudī I.10.) Currently. In all the Sanskrit regional > “dialects" I know of they are pronounced, in whole or part, as alveolars. > Are we to presume that somehow these once were actually cerebals. Or… was > Pāṇini wrong, here? > > Jim Ryan > > On Sep 26, 2021, at 11:36 AM, Madhav Deshpande via INDOLOGY < > [email protected]> wrote: > > Thanks, Harry, for sharing these articles. Best, > > Madhav > > Madhav M. Deshpande > Professor Emeritus, Sanskrit and Linguistics > University of Michigan, Ann Arbor, Michigan, USA > Senior Fellow, Oxford Center for Hindu Studies > Adjunct Professor, National Institute of Advanced Studies, Bangalore, India > > [Residence: Campbell, California, USA] > > > On Sun, Sep 26, 2021 at 11:26 AM Harry Spier via INDOLOGY < > [email protected]> wrote: > >> Dear all, >> There are two articles by SK Chatterji written 25 years apart titled "The >> Pronounciation of Sanskrit" , same title, different articles. I'm >> attaching them for whoever is interested. >> Harry Spier >> >> >> On Sun, Sep 26, 2021 at 1:28 PM Hock, Hans Henrich via INDOLOGY < >> [email protected]> wrote: >> >>> Dear All, >>> >>> As I recall, the issue of how Sanskrit is pronounced in modern (i.e. >>> early 20th-century) India is addressed in an article by Suniti Kumar >>> Chatterji – >>> >>> Chatterji, Suniti Kumar. The pronunciation of Sanskrit. *Indian >>> Linguistics*, (1961) vol. 21, pp. 61-82. Originally: *K. B. Pathak >>> commemoration volume*, 330-349. Bhandarkar Oriental Research Institute, >>> 1934. >>> For the ancient period, there are the Prātiśākhyas of course (the source >>> for Allen’s and Verma’s publications; Vidhata Mishra largely repeats >>> Verma). On the earliest recoverable pronunciation of syllabic *ṛ* as >>> [ara] (with both [a]s a quarter mora), I have published a paper: Were ṛ and >>> ḷ velar in early Sanskrit? *Vidyā-Vratin: Professor A. M. Ghatage >>> felicitation **volume*, ed. by V. N. Jha, 69-94. (Sri Garib Dass >>> Oriental Series, 160.) Delhi: Sri Satguru Publications, 1992 >>> >>> To teach retroflex to American students I ask them to pronounce their >>> *r* and, while they are doing so, press the tongue hard against the >>> roof of the mouth, which produces a retroflex stop *ṭ* that is quite >>> distinct from their *t* sound. >>> >>> In general, I have found it useful to adopt one of the regional variants >>> of modern Indian pronounciations (I use the northern one with *ri* for >>> *ṛ* and *gy* for *jñ* (while properly warning the students that these >>> are modern pronunciations). By becoming familiar with this way of >>> pronouncing Sanskrit students will find it easier to follow Indian >>> Sanskritists when they are speaking/pronouncing Sanskrit. I also urge >>> students to keep their aspirates and nonaspirates and their dentals and >>> retroflexes as distinct as possible, telling them that when I was beginning >>> to study Sanskrit I sometimes spent fruitless hours locating something in >>> the dictionary because of looking up under the “wrong *t*”. >>> >>> I hope some of you will find these remarks interesting. >>> >>> All the best – stay safe, >>> >>> Hans Henrich >>> >>> >> _______________________________________________ >> INDOLOGY mailing list >> [email protected] >> https://list.indology.info/mailman/listinfo/indology >> > > _______________________________________________ > INDOLOGY mailing list > [email protected] > https://list.indology.info/mailman/listinfo/indology > > > > _______________________________________________ > INDOLOGY mailing list > [email protected] > https://list.indology.info/mailman/listinfo/indology >
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