I thought you were retired at the time... > -----Original Message----- > From: Jani Taskinen [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > Sent: Tuesday, July 17, 2007 7:37 AM > To: Andi Gutmans > Cc: internals@lists.php.net > Subject: RE: [PHP-DEV] POSIX regex > > Just FYI: I did not agree with that choice. And IIRC, neither > did several other people here. > > --Jani > > On Tue, 2007-07-17 at 07:27 -0700, Andi Gutmans wrote: > > A few months ago we agreed that we will give our users the > choice of > > both modes. The burdon of maintenance has mainly been on us > btw as the > > majority of the differences here are in the Zend Engine and the > > extensions don't have as much work associated with them. > > > > Here's my proposed way of figuring how to make migration > easier. Port > > the following applications to PHP 6 and let's see what we can learn > > from > > it: > > - mediaWiki > > - SugarCRM > > - Drupal > > - Wordpress > > > > I don't think we can have more of a reality check than > actually going > > through this exercise and understanding the issues. As I mentioned > > from the small work we have done up to now it seems like > there really > > is no migration patch except for applications to be almost > completely > > rewritten when unicode_semantics=on. I don't think this is > a feasible > > way to go. But if volunteers can work on this porting and > it allows us > > to fix some things (if they are fixable) then that would change the > > situation. > > > > I believe that people who actually do this exercise and > want to have a > > migration path will understand that there's no other way except to > > support unicode_semantics=off. Btw, most languages deliver > Unicode in > > this way and it works pretty well. > > > > Andi > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: Lukas Kahwe Smith [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > Sent: Monday, July 16, 2007 11:40 PM > > > To: Andi Gutmans > > > Cc: Ilia Alshanetsky; [EMAIL PROTECTED]; > internals@lists.php.net > > > Subject: Re: [PHP-DEV] POSIX regex > > > > > > Andi Gutmans wrote: > > > > > > > There are clear things we want to change (like > register_globals) > > > > because we believe that ultimately they have a significant > > > benefit to > > > > our users with controllable downside (there is an easy one line > > > > workaround which we can document for people to get their > > > old apps to > > > > work). There are other areas where breaking BC makes sense. > > > But saying > > > > we should just break it across the board and not even > > > consider having > > > > a good upgrade path for our users is unreasonable. I believe we > > > > can have a very good PHP 6, which is pretty much in sync with > > > many of your > > > > feelings, but that provides a well documented and > > > reasonable upgrade > > > > path (unlike VB -> VB.NET). > > > > > > I never said we should break BC just for the hell of it. The goal > > > must be that PHP6 feels and behaves like PHP. Its not about > > > high-jacking PHP to come up with the language we all > wanted instead. > > > > > > > So let's not oversimplify this situation. We have to > > > continue to make > > > > trade-offs. > > > > > > Sure, but you are suggesting to delay decisions indefinitely. > > > Either you are saying this because you already decided that you > > > don't want this change, or you are accepting that our > users will be > > > unable to prepare themselves for what happens in the > future. This of > > > course will make it that much harder for them to take the plunge > > > into PHP6. > > > > > > > Btw, one of PHP's strengths has been in high > performance sites and > > > > with a Unicode=on only mode this would take quite a hit > > > (but it's not > > > > the only reason why I need we need choice). In any > case, I think > > > > on this question it does make sense that we start > making "informed" > > > > decisions by understanding the migration path better, > as opposed > > > > to just basing decisions on gut feelings. Maybe that kind of > > > > learning experience will proove me wrong (which may be so). > > > > > > I have not seen any proposed way of finding out this > migration path > > > besides lets wait. Lets wait is not the answer. What I > asked for was > > > exactly a decision on how far we are willing to go with > the breakage > > > and more importantly the fundamental decision about how > we approach > > > unicode in PHP6. > > > The on off switch is not something that makes sense to > delay until > > > forever. Its a big decision and once its decided other > things will > > > become much easier (like PHP6 development or deciding the > impact of > > > other potential BC breaks). > > > > > > regards, > > > Lukas > > > > > > > -- > > PHP Internals - PHP Runtime Development Mailing List To > unsubscribe, > > visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php > > > >
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