On 3/4/21 4:46 PM, Dan Brown wrote:
Sorry for foolishly forgetting about the OCB RFC, which specifies OCB3.
But that OCB3 RFC is from 2014, five-ish years before the OCB2 break.
It says:
"The version of OCB defined in this document is a refinement of two
prior schemes. The original OCB version was published in 2001 [OCB1]
and was listed as an optional component in IEEE 802.11i. A second
version was published in 2004 [OCB2] and is specified in ISO 19772.
The scheme described here is called OCB3 in the 2011 paper describing
the mode [OCB3]; it shall be referred to simply as OCB throughout
this document. The only difference between the algorithm of this RFC
and that of the [OCB3] paper is that the tag length is now encoded
into the internally formatted nonce. See [OCB3] for complete
references, timing information, and a discussion of the differences
between the algorithms."
So this RFC describes OCB3.
Again, the OCB2 attack severely erodes my trust in OCB3, though maybe
I'm an outlier. Maybe I'm also forgetting recent CFRG or other effort
to regain trust in OCB3 relative to OCB2?
And it also says:
"OCB has received years of in-depth analysis previous to its
submission to the CFRG and has been under review by the members of
the CFRG for over a year. It is the consensus of the CFRG that the
security mechanisms provided by the OCB AEAD algorithm described in
this document are suitable for use in providing confidentiality and
authentication."
So CFRG has produced a document defining OCB3 and that document
represents the consensus of the CFRG. I'm not sure what else you think
CFRG should be doing but maybe mention it on the CFRG list instead of
IPsec. Also, Phil Rogaway is on the CFRG list but I don't think he's
on this one. If you have trust issues with OCB then maybe bring them
up with him there.
Dan.
------------------------------------------------------------------------
*From: *Dan Harkins <dhark...@lounge.org>
*Sent: *Mar 4, 2021 5:29 PM
*To: *Dan Brown <danibr...@blackberry.com>; ipsec@ietf.org
*Subject: *Re: [IPsec] [Cryptography] Direct public confirmation from
Dr. Rogaway (fwd)
Hi Dan,
On 3/4/21 11:04 AM, Dan Brown wrote:
Deciding whether to use OCB sounds like a job for CFRG!
As I understand it, OCB2 is severely broken:
https://eprint.iacr.org/2019/311
<https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__eprint.iacr.org_2019_311&d=DwMDaQ&c=yzoHOc_ZK-sxl-kfGNSEvlJYanssXN3q-lhj0sp26wE&r=mf6j6fOClApRsArWE9wqI1rEGUVkfxZ0aXWmn35nK_c&m=8aGCbnoSU7ozJ-QSzxHGokOgKsea7IZq6669KyaMNNA&s=bSN3q8CM03xYZRbPi2KanYD7GKxGF2HjAZ9AjTc5Nvk&e=>
That said, OCB1 and OCB3 may be just fine, but a broken OCB2 is
not a good sign. All the more reason to defer to CFRG, unless
you want to play Monty Hall problem.
CFRG already produced RFC 7253. That's really all they can
be expected to do. It's up to individual IETF WGs to define
how to use that cipher mode in their particular protocols.
That's where we come in.
regards,
Dan.
Dan
*From:* IPsec <ipsec-boun...@ietf.org> *On Behalf Of *Dan Harkins
*Sent:* Wednesday, March 3, 2021 2:37 PM
*To:* ipsec@ietf.org
*Subject:* Re: [IPsec] [Cryptography] Direct public confirmation
from Dr. Rogaway (fwd)
Faster and more secure seem to be compelling reasons. Those
reasons are
probably more compelling for ESP than they are for IKE.
The license for OCB always had some caveats like the code could
not be used
for military purposes which is something of a nightmare for a
manufacturer of
general purpose hardware/software. Considering how difficult it
would be to
ensure that your product is never used by a military anywhere in
the world,
that's probably enough of a reason for TLS to not support it.
Remember how
long ECC was delayed for (imagined) IP reasons?
IP is bad news. People don't want anything to do with partially
encumbered
technology. Now this technology is not encumbered at all so, yea,
let's do it.
If an individual draft was to appear would the WG adopt it as a
work item?
regards,
Dan.
On 2/28/21 1:47 PM, Yoav Nir wrote:
IIRC the license has allowed OCB to be used for TLS for
several years. They haven’t taken it up. There are no AES-OCB
ciphersuites
inhttps://www.iana.org/assignments/tls-parameters/tls-parameters.xml#tls-parameters-4
< >
So I’m wondering right with you: It has a theoretical
advantage in security and a measurable advantage in speed in
software. Neither were compelling enough for anyone to
bother adding it in TLS ciphersuites. Why should our
conclusion be any different?
Yoav
On 28 Feb 2021, at 22:35, Paul Wouters <p...@nohats.ca
<mailto:p...@nohats.ca>> wrote:
So now that OCB is finally free, do we want to implement
it? :)
I'm honestly not sure if the improvements of AES-GCM are
worth it.
I haven't heard of vulnerabilities in IKE/ESP wrt. IVs or
counters.
Paul
---------- Forwarded message ----------
Date: Sat, 27 Feb 2021 14:37:30
From: "Salz, Rich via cryptography"
<cryptogra...@metzdowd.com
<mailto:cryptogra...@metzdowd.com>>
To: "cryptogra...@metzdowd.com
<mailto:cryptogra...@metzdowd.com>"
<cryptogra...@metzdowd.com
<mailto:cryptogra...@metzdowd.com>>
Subject: [Cryptography] Direct public confirmation from
Dr. Rogaway
https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/cfrg/qLTveWOdTJcLn4HP3ev-vrj05Vg/
<https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__mailarchive.ietf.org_arch_msg_cfrg_qLTveWOdTJcLn4HP3ev-2Dvrj05Vg_&d=DwMDaQ&c=yzoHOc_ZK-sxl-kfGNSEvlJYanssXN3q-lhj0sp26wE&r=qkpbVDRj7zlSRVql-UonsW647lYqnsrbXizKI6MgkEw&m=2DcLjYKtazJ6kYTZx5uowgB-qJRp6_C8W0rBOr7ZOUI&s=LZV-8STdDDeui1TmXz2JORn2wTtSrkJa_-l3hZK-AO8&e=>
:
I can confirm that I have abandoned all OCB patents
and placed into the public domain all OCB-related IP of mine.
While I have been telling people this for quite some
time, I don't
think I ever made a proper announcement to the CFRG or on the
OCB webpage. Consider that done.
I hope people will use the scheme to do positive things.
phil
_______________________________________________
The cryptography mailing list
cryptogra...@metzdowd.com <mailto:cryptogra...@metzdowd.com>
https://www.metzdowd.com/mailman/listinfo/cryptography
<https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__www.metzdowd.com_mailman_listinfo_cryptography&d=DwMDaQ&c=yzoHOc_ZK-sxl-kfGNSEvlJYanssXN3q-lhj0sp26wE&r=qkpbVDRj7zlSRVql-UonsW647lYqnsrbXizKI6MgkEw&m=2DcLjYKtazJ6kYTZx5uowgB-qJRp6_C8W0rBOr7ZOUI&s=_9IPM1exZqE6F4PLBAvpqDF-bHkBi5JPiUyq3eeyfwo&e=>
_______________________________________________
IPsec mailing list
IPsec@ietf.org <mailto:IPsec@ietf.org>
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipsec
<https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__www.ietf.org_mailman_listinfo_ipsec&d=DwMDaQ&c=yzoHOc_ZK-sxl-kfGNSEvlJYanssXN3q-lhj0sp26wE&r=qkpbVDRj7zlSRVql-UonsW647lYqnsrbXizKI6MgkEw&m=2DcLjYKtazJ6kYTZx5uowgB-qJRp6_C8W0rBOr7ZOUI&s=B4s3eO4jZ5UhqwAPEQu9SxQaSVWKuM4HcC1moozCyBc&e=>
_______________________________________________
IPsec mailing list
IPsec@ietf.org <mailto:IPsec@ietf.org>
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipsec
<https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__www.ietf.org_mailman_listinfo_ipsec&d=DwMDaQ&c=yzoHOc_ZK-sxl-kfGNSEvlJYanssXN3q-lhj0sp26wE&r=qkpbVDRj7zlSRVql-UonsW647lYqnsrbXizKI6MgkEw&m=2DcLjYKtazJ6kYTZx5uowgB-qJRp6_C8W0rBOr7ZOUI&s=B4s3eO4jZ5UhqwAPEQu9SxQaSVWKuM4HcC1moozCyBc&e=>
--
"The object of life is not to be on the side of the majority, but to
escape finding oneself in the ranks of the insane." -- Marcus Aurelius
------------------------------------------------------------------------
This transmission (including any attachments) may contain
confidential information, privileged material (including material
protected by the solicitor-client or other applicable
privileges), or constitute non-public information. Any use of
this information by anyone other than the intended recipient is
prohibited. If you have received this transmission in error,
please immediately reply to the sender and delete this
information from your system. Use, dissemination, distribution,
or reproduction of this transmission by unintended recipients is
not authorized and may be unlawful.
--
"The object of life is not to be on the side of the majority, but to
escape finding oneself in the ranks of the insane." -- Marcus Aurelius
------------------------------------------------------------------------
This transmission (including any attachments) may contain confidential
information, privileged material (including material protected by the
solicitor-client or other applicable privileges), or constitute
non-public information. Any use of this information by anyone other
than the intended recipient is prohibited. If you have received this
transmission in error, please immediately reply to the sender and
delete this information from your system. Use, dissemination,
distribution, or reproduction of this transmission by unintended
recipients is not authorized and may be unlawful.
--
"The object of life is not to be on the side of the majority, but to
escape finding oneself in the ranks of the insane." -- Marcus Aurelius
_______________________________________________
IPsec mailing list
IPsec@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipsec
