it is based on an artificial "designer/programmer" separation.
marc
|-----Original Message-----
|From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
|[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of Jason Thomas
|Sent: Saturday, February 03, 2001 7:51 AM
|To: jBoss Developer
|Subject: RE: [jBoss-Dev] <sigh> any response PLEASE?
|
|
|Marc,
|
|I had a few ideas about how to make JBoss more self managing and make
|it easier for more people to help. I think one of the problems the
|95% of unutilized people have is that even a small task is very
|difficult to accomplish in the context of a large system. Also
|before the 95% gets frustrated and gives up, they take up your time.
|I think that these both of these problems could be solved by creating
|a simple interactive system to allow people to exchange source code
|and specifications. Heres how it might work...
|
|Developers would be divided into two groups: designers (experienced
|Jboss developers that have RW CVS access) and programmers (everyone
|else). When a designer needed to accomplish a task they would break
|it down into detailed specifications (descriptions, test cases, uml
|diagrams) for methods or classes and enter them into the system along
|with deadlines. Then they would work on something else or take a
|break and wait for programmers to write the code. When a programmer
|wanted to help out they would go into the system, look at the
|outstanding micro-tasks, write the code for it, and submit it to the
|system. The designer would then come back around the deadline,
|grab any code that the programmers wrote, integrate it into JBoss,
|and write any unfinished code themselves.
|
|Designers could also assign points to micro-tasks to entice
|programmers to help. Programmers could put on there resume Received
|18574 JBoss programmer points. The system could even automatically
|promote a programmer (i.e. send them a CVS password) to a designer
|when they reached so many points.
|
|I dont think this methodology is too radical - its basically using
|standard methodologies in a collaborative environment. It would make
|it easy for anyone to contribute code, even if they only had a
|limited amount of spare time. It would also allow anyone to
|contribute without taking up any of your time. Does anyone think
|this could work?
|
|Jason
|
|
|--- marc fleury <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
|> Peter,
|>
|> I don't have a lot of time on my hands but your posts does beg for
|> an
|> answer.
|>
|> Organizing Open Source development is the tougher thing I have ever
|> done.
|> Forget development of the kernel (even though that is no walk in
|> the park
|> either).
|>
|> I am now in a "management" position where I usually work 15h a day,
|> just
|> talking to people and trying to organize stuff. Communication on
|> the
|> website, organization of the new doco, 2.1 stabilization, lawyer
|> papers,
|> possible deals, recruitment of new members, board communication,
|> news,
|> patches, egos it is all a big pot of "stuff" that I need to do.
|>
|> It is so bad, that I really burned out in december, i had to take a
|> week off
|> because there is a price to pay to try and make sense of the whole
|> thing.
|> IT is MUCH worse now, for SOME reason the whole thing exploded and
|> I have
|> 1138 unread mails on jboss-user (serious). Not only that but I
|> have
|> invested $100k of my own money to make it work (and much more from
|> my
|> father in ex-Telkel). That money is gone and it adds to my stress
|> and
|> "Todo" list.
|>
|> I am still running with it as much as I can, and frankly I grow
|> accustomed
|> to the pressure the thousand of little things as well as "long
|> term"
|> development that needs to happen.
|>
|> I invite you to step in my shoes for a second, and sit in front of
|> the
|> "management console" and see how long you can take it. Can you
|> Keep the
|> Kernel in your mind and Keep the organization going. It is a bit
|> like air
|> traffic control.
|>
|> So how does it work? well I understand that OSS is a "Beehive"
|> people come
|> and go, I get about 2-3 "I want to help " messages *per-day* of
|> these maybe
|> 5% really stay on. Should I make more efforts to bring that number
|> up? I
|> could. But what I am really looking for is "self maintaince" as an
|> OSS
|> quality, persistence is another one. I recognized "good faith",
|> gave you a
|> rw passwd if I remember correctly (we give many of these these
|> days), and
|> basically told you "Tu te demerdes t'es legionnaire" (french saying
|> that
|> says "Find your way out of this hell, You are a foreign legionnaire
|> now").
|> If you felt you were not assisted enough, I am sorry to hear it and
|> I am
|> curious to know what would help, since we DO need to have more
|> people
|> staying around than 5%.
|>
|> BUT UNDERSTAND MY POSITION, I need to find "self maintaining" (IE
|> SCALABLE)
|> ways of managing that crazy beehive, we are creating something new
|> as I
|> believe we are outgrowing the "linux model" (modular is NOT
|> enough). No
|> modular is not enough, obviously we need more following, more
|> management,
|> more "TODO" lists, more "STATUS" lists, more "HELP NEEDED" lists,
|> etc etc.
|>
|> The final point on "make noise and you will be heard" well yes,
|> until you
|> make too much noise. But "el que no llora no mama" (spanish saying
|> that
|> goes "he who doesn't cry doesn't get to breast feed"). I am a mama
|> with
|> many many cubs... I don't mean to hurt ANYBODY's feelings, really.
|> You came
|> in good faith, you got fed up for lack of following, help me find
|> "scalable"
|> ways to follow you...
|>
|> ok?
|>
|> marc
|>
|>
|> |-----Original Message-----
|> |From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
|> |[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of Peter Shillan
|> |Sent: Friday, February 02, 2001 2:49 AM
|> |To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
|> |Subject: RE: [jBoss-Dev] <sigh> any response PLEASE?
|> |
|> |
|> |Hi Guys,
|> |
|> |This is the first thing I've written for a *long* time, but this
|> |thread has
|> |inspired me to commit something... :-D
|> |
|> |I tried to get involved in jBoss a long time ago. To protect the
|> |innocent I
|> |won't name names or teams, but here is (roughly) what happened:
|> |
|> |1) I asked to participate and was gladly accepted.
|> |
|> |2) I was assigned to a couple of teams but given no other
|> instructions.
|> |
|> |3) I had a couple of E-Mails between the other guys, but these
|> stopped
|> |fairly quickly.
|> |
|> |4) I asked what I should do and got told to just 'follow along'.
|> |The problem
|> |with this of course was that no one told me there was a mailing
|> |list for the
|> |tasks I needed to put my name on and it was not made clear in any
|> |other way.
|> |
|> |5) No one contacted me to find out if I was dead or alive and I
|> |didn't know
|> |what was going on.
|> |
|> |6) I got fed up and stopped trying to find out.
|> |
|> |7) I saw the tasks I was meant to be working on were finished.
|> |
|> |Now I am new to all this open-source and I'm perfectly prepared to
|> accept
|> |that much of this was or could have been my fault. The question
|> |is, though,
|> |that no one really wanted to help me get into it and no one was
|> |prepared to
|> |try to extend a hand. I am a good programmer and love jBoss and
|> the
|> |principles behind it. I would love to have been involved and cut
|> |some of the
|> |code.
|> |
|> |Since someone began talking about attitude, perhaps someone can
|> |explain the
|> |attitude of people who should be doing everything reasonable to
|> encourage,
|> |welcome and help people - pointing them in the right direction. I
|> realise
|> |this takes time, but if it's a time you are not prepared to spend,
|> you are
|> |in the wrong role. I also have experience of E-Mails to the list
|> going
|> |un-answered until something more... shall we say... *direct* was
|> written.
|> |
|> |Let's not get bitchy... we are professionals. All I'm saying is
|> that you
|> |could get a lot more help to write the thing if the atmosphere was
|> |a little
|> |more supportive and embracing, in my own opinion.
|> |
|> |Peter Shillan.
|>
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