Why are you falling all into the rhetorical trap set up by these fanatics? Stop responding to them - you people are giving them too much importance. Don't pay attention to these mentally retarded idiots who see everything from the lens of their accursed religious ideology. Jharkhand has more serious problems to attend to.
Ven calls me a pro-christian person - I am an agnostic - and plague on fundamentalists of all types- fascist hindutvavadis, rapturous christian, wahbabi islamists- all those who think that they and they only have the last "word" and the way to "god". If it was upto them the world would be awash in blood of innocents. Actually they are pretty successful in achieving this- look at Iraq (thanks to the rapture inclined Bush). Or Gujarat (Modi's tough love for muslims) or Afghanistan (Muslim fundamentalism vs. christian crusaders). Or Kashmir turned from a struggle over nationality to a Jihadi war against India. Count their acheivement in terms of children slaughtered, women raped and killed. Let us fight some more- kill some more in the name of religion and caste and creed. I don't like missionaries - neither the christian types nor the Hindu types - both have destroyed cultures of adivasies. You will either find Hanumans and Ganesh or you will find cross in adibasi areas - sickening cultural imperialism and erasing of tribal identity and culture. When the whole world is falling around our heads- with the food price rise and long term global warming and starvation and destitution - only thing these people are bothered about is the spiritual health of the tribals. That is because they have all the comfort and good life at the cost of the same tribals and poor - and need to divide them to be able to rule them with ease without fear of retribution. That is the reason why RSS is so active in tribal and backward areas- because it sees a united dalit-tribal- poor front as the greatest threat to brahminical dominance in the country. Divide and rule- make them fight and watch the fun. Hindu vs. muslims- hindu vs. christians. Aag lagao aur hath seko - old ruling class funda. And Ven, you have had your RSS people in power in Jharkhand - why don't you try and pass an anti-conversion law instead of bothering this listserve with your crap. Regards Nachiketa On Fri, May 2, 2008 at 6:08 AM, Dr.Dhanakar Thakur <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > I feel conversion by greed, alluration or force is bad and it should not > be practiced or preached on a platform like that of Jharkhand where Sarnas > among tribal too constitute a majority not to talk of whole Hindus. > > *Dr. Dhanakar Thakur* > > > --- On *Fri, 2/5/08, isaac verghese <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>* wrote: > > From: isaac verghese <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Subject: Re: RE: [ =>> Jharkhand <<= ] Conversion law violation is a > criminal offence > To: [email protected] > Date: Friday, 2 May, 2008, 10:23 AM > > How come none of the converts are complaining? If they are happy, what > is your problem, venkat. Why are you interested in whats boiling in others > pot.Why don't you just mind you own business? U speak as if hordes of > converts landed up in your door step asking for succour- " help me venkat I > am being crucified by these christian missionaries ". > > If you think you follow a superior religion and have the spiritual > courage, try reconverting one. Make sure you donot get converted yourself. I > doubt if you will be able to reconvert even one with or without using "Rice" > (Money). > > If you donot understand the connection between feeding the poor and > religion mate, then it speaks volumes about your spirituality. You are worse > than the Rice missionaries. Venkat you live up to this slogan "Moo mein Ram > bhagal mein chura" > > Isaac > > *ven <ahvenkitesh@ gmail.com>* wrote: > > > > On 5/1/08, isaac verghese <[EMAIL PROTECTED] com <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>> wrote: > > > > Thats probably the most ignorant statement I have ever heard. Jesus > > could not help himself..... ........how many Hindu gods are alive, Vikash? > > Sorry if I am rude. > > Jesus could not help himself but he helped a lot of people. Your young > > immature mind , Vikash,will find that very difficult to comprehend mate. Try > > to become a better Hindu first , before you accuse others of > > converting.Have you ever bought lunch for a poor adivasi or a poor Hindu for > > that matter? That wud be too much to expect from a bitter person like > > you.People living in glass house should not ............ ....... > > > > Isaac > > > > > Isaac, > Eg Lord Vishnu descended on earth as Rama's incarnation. The point is why > do you emphasize, Jesus died so that he can save others. WE never hear a > statement that Krishna, or Rama died so that they can save us. It is kind of > contradictory. Our gods are eternal. Only a spark of them comes to earth as > Rama, Krishna for a particular purpose. In fact all of us are sparks of god, > our creator. > > Further, pray tell me .. what does feeding a poor have to do with > religion. Shame on those rice missionaries who convert the poor by feeding > them.. This is the worst type of exploitation. Destroying their traditional > religion. > > If christianity is so great .. why are American Indians in USA, South > Africa the poorest and most exploited. Why are the Filippins the poorest in > south east Asia. Why are so many Christian countries in Africa the poorest > of the poor. Why christian missionaries do not open schools and feed hte > poor there? > > Venkat > > > > > > > > > PS: Those who talk about principles rarely practice them. > > > > *vikash singh <vikash_singh@ yahoo.com <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>>* wrote: > > > > Try converting a Muslim, The next day your dead body > > will be found. > > Hindoos are good people that people trying to convert > > are still alive. They should thank Jesus that they > > deal with Hindus. > > > > Anyway Jesus couldn't help himself, what the hell he > > will help the poor christians... . > > > > Vikash S. > > --- Sachi <[EMAIL PROTECTED] co.uk <sachidadev%40yahoo..co.uk>> wrote: > > > > > As for my personal opinion any humans living in this > > > world should be given > > > right to practice any > > > religion they want. It has been happening throught > > > the world : Convertions > > > What's wrong in Convertions, be it to Hinduism, to > > > Chistianity , to Islam, > > > to Buddhism. > > > Anyone want to have debate on why conversions should > > > not be allowed in a > > > secular country like India? > > > > > > Bye, > > > Sachi > > > > > > > > > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ps.co.in <Jharkhand%40yahoogroups.co.in> > > > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] ps.co.in <Jharkhand%40yahoogroups.co.in>] > > On > > > Behalf Of WILLIAM KISKU > > > Sent: Sunday, April 27, 2008 1:04 AM > > > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ps.co.in <Jharkhand%40yahoogroups.co.in> > > > Subject: Re: RE: [ =>> Jharkhand <<= ] Conversion > > > law violation is a > > > criminal offence > > > > > > > > > > > > Well I am not a politician: I hate politicians. > > > > > > From my basic general knowledge the Indian > > > constitution is based on British constitution, which > > > is a western/christian based constitution, therefore > > > contrarary to Hindutvas constitution. > > > > > > As far as my understanding goes, it is NOT > > > illegal/criminal to convert christians back to > > > Hindutva, but criminal to convert adivasis/tribals/ > > > into Christianity. > > > > > > Advocate Ashutoshjee. .. Can you throw some light on > > > this and educate the forum on the right of an > > > individual to practice a religion based on the human > > > right issue? > > > > > > William Kisku > > > > > > --- Gladson Dungdung <[EMAIL PROTECTED] com<nfindia%40rediffmail.com> > > > <mailto:nfindia%40rediffmai l.com <nfindia%2540rediffmail.com>> > > > wrote: > > > > > > > Hello, > > > > > > > > It's not the matter of Gladson or Venki. The real > > > > matter is the state is becoming the violator human > > > > rights in the name of freedom of religion and so > > > on. > > > > How can the State dictate which religion I should > > > > follow, profess or decline? > > > > > > > > Father of the Nationa, Mahatma Gandhi had very > > > clear > > > > idies about it. He said that I'm a sanatan Hindu > > > and > > > > it's my personal matter therefore the state should > > > > not dictate my religion. We have the right to > > > > freedom of religion as the fundamental rights > > > > guaranted by the Constitution of India under > > > Article > > > > 25 and the state is duty bound to ensure these > > > > rights. If the state decides about whom I should > > > > believe, what I should wear and so on then where > > > my > > > > freedom is? > > > > > > > > When a tribal or dalit becomes Christian, Muslim > > > or > > > > Budhist peole of the so-called main streem of the > > > > society lose their sleep but why people do not > > > raise > > > > any question when a Sharma, Verma, Mishra and list > > > > goes on accept/change their religion. > > > > > > > > Another thing is when a tribal becomes Christian, > > > > Muslim or Budhist so-called people call it > > > > "conversion" but when the same fellow becomes > > > > 'Hundu' then they call it 'Ghar Vapsi'. what a > > > > wonderful defination of conversion we have. > > > > > > > > This is nothing than the power politics. The major > > > > reason is that the Tribals and Dalits are > > > > challenging the statu quo as a result the Brahmins > > > > have already lost their control in the politics > > > and > > > > now they are also going to lose their social > > > > control, which they are not able to digest > > > therefore > > > > they blam in many ways to stop the social change > > > > process. But nothing is going to work we will > > > bring > > > > about change in the society at any cost. I know > > > that > > > > many people feel uncomfortable in these issues > > > > therefore it must be stopped but sometimes I > > > > surprise that inspite of many request why do peole > > > > put these matterials in the group. I don't have > > > any > > > > problem if people want to discuss let's discuss > > > it, > > > > otherwise I would requet to the Moderater please > > > > don't pass any matter like this, which is > > > > meaningless to discuss in the forum. > > > > > > > > rgds > > > > Gladson > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Sat, 26 Apr 2008 BARBARA ali wrote : > > > > >Hi, > > > > > > > > > >Its as simple as this, each one mind your own > > > > business and let Venki and Gladson go hand in hand > > > > and stand where ever they have to if they want to > > > do > > > > what ever they wish with their own lives. > > > > > > > > > >Bye > > > > > > > > > >BARBARA ALI > > > > >SHARJAH > > > > >UAE > > > > >PO BOX 38485 > > > > >Mobile No: 0097150-6914668 > > > > >URL: > > > > > > > > > Http://angloindianh eritagecentre. googlepages. com/anglo- > > indianbiographie > > s<http://angloindianheritagecentre.googlepages.com/anglo-indianbiographies> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ps.co.inFrom<Jharkhand%40yahoogroups.co.inFrom> > > > <mailto:Jharkhand%40yahoogr > > > oups.co.inFrom<Jharkhand%2540yahoogroups.co.inFrom>> > > : > > > > > > [EMAIL PROTECTED] comDate <prabirkc%40yahoo.comDate> > > > <mailto:prabirkc%40yahoo. comDate <prabirkc%2540yahoo.comDate>> : Sat, > > 26 Apr > > > 2008 08:01:51 > > > > -0700Subject: Re: [ =>> Jharkhand <<= ] Conversion > > > > law violation is a criminal offence > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >Hope somebody prevents the Dalai Lama, Rajneesh > > > and > > > > Mahesh Yogi's followers from entering Gujarat! > > > > >Now what will we do if Venki converts Gladson to > > > > Jainism? Will they arrest Gladson or Venki? > > > > >And > > > > >Prabir--- On Sat, 4/26/08, ven > > > > <ahvenkitesh@ gmail.com <ahvenkitesh%40gmail.com> > > > <mailto:ahvenkitesh% 40gmail.com <ahvenkitesh%2540gmail.com>> > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >I believe such a law such be enacted in Jharkhand > > > > as soon as possible since the state is plagued by > > > > unethical conversions of the poor.Conversion law > > > > violation is a criminal offencehttp: //timesofindia > > > > .indiatimes. com/Ahmedabad/ Conversion_ > > > > law_violation_ is_a_criminal_ offence/articles > > > > how/2984048. cms26 Apr 2008, 0332 hrs IST,Rajiv > > > > Shah,TNNGANDHINAGAR : From now on, anyone wishing > > > to > > > > convert will have to tell the government why they > > > > were doing it and for how long they had been > > > > following the religion which they were renouncing, > > > > failing which, they will be declared offenders and > > > > prosecuted under criminal laws. Forced conversion > > > > could land those responsible a three-year jail > > > term. > > > > This clause is contained in the rules of the > > > > anti-conversion law which came into effect on > > > April > > > > 1.. The new law is called Gujarat Freedom of > > > Religion > > > > Act, 2003, and took five years to be implemented > > > > because of the failure of the state government to > > > > come up with rules on the kind of information to > > > be > > > > provided when applying for permission to convert > > > to > > > > any religion. The Bill confirms that Jainism and > > > > Buddhism are not sub-sects of Hinduism. The rules > > > > have been published in the Gujarat government > > > > gazette. The rules make it obligatory for a priest > > > > seeking to convert someone from one religion to > > > > another to take prior permission of the district > > > > magistrate in order to avoid police action. > > > > >. > > > > > === message truncated === > > > > > > > > > > > > > > *P V Isaac, > > Home:9874 1819 Mob 0415 144 981. > > * > > ** *" What you resist, will persist"* > > > > > > * Jharkhand.org. in/forum * <http://www.jharkhand.org.in/forum> > > <http://egroups.com/list/Jharkhand> > > * * > > > > > > > > > > *P V Isaac,* > > > > > * Jharkhand.org.in/forum * <http://www.jharkhand.org.in/forum> > <http://egroups.com/list/Jharkhand> > * * > > > >
