This group is in need of serious moderation. Let's keep the religious right-wing diatribe out of here. Can the moderators please intervene?? Arnab
On Sat, May 3, 2008 at 1:26 PM, Dr.Dhanakar Thakur <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > Dear Nachiketa, > > > > I live in Jharkhand and I feel if anybody talks for conversion in > Jharklhand he/she is not a "mentally retarded idiot" whether one talks for > or against that. > > > > True, Jharkhand has more serious problems to attend to but if one talks > on it he/she should be ready to listen to the other view point as well. > > Hindus never say they only have the last "word" and the way to "god" and > that others say is the root of maladies and conversion and its opposition. > > > > > > Equating Afganistan with Gujarat or Kashmir is ridiculous. > > > > if there would not have been Christian missionaries the Hindu types > would not have evolved. > > > > Equating both have destring cultures of adivasies in India is wrong. > > > > Hanumans Himself was an Adivasi born at Anjan village near Toto Gumla, > > > > There is nothing as cultural imperialism and erasing of tribal identity > and culture. > > Why anybody is more serious for evangelical talks than talking on the food > price rise and long term global warming and starvation and destitution? > > > > - If RSS is so active in tribal and backward areas- to counteract > Missionaries with service and educational facilites what harm in that? > > > > Let people choose their way. > > > > Aunited dalit-tribal- poor front if happen would be a Hindu front abd > where is the Brahminical dominance in the country?? It had never been- > brahmins hardly ruled any oart of the country. > > > > . Divide and rule- has partitioned India , > > > Whether RSS people in power in Jharkhand or anywhere or not an > anti-conversion law must be strengthened.. > > Regards > > Dhanakar > > *Dr. Dhanakar Thakur* > > > --- On *Sat, 3/5/08, Nachiketa <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>* wrote: > > From: Nachiketa <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Subject: Re: RE: [ =>> Jharkhand <<= ] Conversion law violation is a > criminal offence > To: [email protected] > Date: Saturday, 3 May, 2008, 6:18 AM > > Why are you falling all into the rhetorical trap set up by these > fanatics? Stop responding to them - you people are giving them too much > importance.. Don't pay attention to these mentally retarded idiots who see > everything from the lens of their accursed religious ideology. Jharkhand has > more serious problems to attend to. > > Ven calls me a pro-christian person - I am an agnostic - and plague on > fundamentalists of all types- fascist hindutvavadis, rapturous christian, > wahbabi islamists- all those who think that they and they only have the last > "word" and the way to "god". If it was upto them the world would be awash in > blood of innocents. Actually they are pretty successful in achieving this- > look at Iraq (thanks to the rapture inclined Bush). Or Gujarat (Modi's tough > love for muslims) or Afghanistan (Muslim fundamentalism vs. christian > crusaders). Or Kashmir turned from a struggle over nationality to a Jihadi > war against India. Count their acheivement in terms of children slaughtered, > women raped and killed. Let us fight some more- kill some more in the name > of religion and caste and creed. I don't like missionaries - neither the > christian types nor the Hindu types - both have destroyed cultures of > adivasies. You will either find Hanumans and Ganesh or you will find cross > in adibasi areas - sickening cultural imperialism and erasing of tribal > identity and culture. > > When the whole world is falling around our heads- with the food price rise > and long term global warming and starvation and destitution - only thing > these people are bothered about is the spiritual health of the tribals. That > is because they have all the comfort and good life at the cost of the same > tribals and poor - and need to divide them to be able to rule them with ease > without fear of retribution. That is the reason why RSS is so active in > tribal and backward areas- because it sees a united dalit-tribal- poor front > as the greatest threat to brahminical dominance in the country. Divide and > rule- make them fight and watch the fun. Hindu vs. muslims- hindu vs. > christians. Aag lagao aur hath seko - old ruling class funda. > > And Ven, you have had your RSS people in power in Jharkhand - why don't > you try and pass an anti-conversion law instead of bothering this listserve > with your crap. > > Regards > > Nachiketa > > > > > > > > > > On Fri, May 2, 2008 at 6:08 AM, Dr.Dhanakar Thakur <dhanakar_amp@ > yahoo.co. in <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>> wrote: > > > I feel conversion by greed, alluration or force is bad and it should > > not be practiced or preached on a platform like that of Jharkhand where > > Sarnas among tribal too constitute a majority not to talk of whole Hindus. > > > > *Dr. Dhanakar Thakur* > > > > > > --- On *Fri, 2/5/08, isaac verghese <[EMAIL PROTECTED] com<[EMAIL > > PROTECTED]> > > >* wrote: > > > > From: isaac verghese <[EMAIL PROTECTED] com <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>> > > > > Subject: Re: RE: [ =>> Jharkhand <<= ] Conversion law violation is a > > criminal offence > > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ps.co.in <[email protected]> > > Date: Friday, 2 May, 2008, 10:23 AM > > > > How come none of the converts are complaining? If they are happy, > > what is your problem, venkat. Why are you interested in whats boiling in > > others pot.Why don't you just mind you own business? U speak as if hordes of > > converts landed up in your door step asking for succour- " help me venkat I > > am being crucified by these christian missionaries ". > > > > If you think you follow a superior religion and have the spiritual > > courage, try reconverting one. Make sure you donot get converted yourself. I > > doubt if you will be able to reconvert even one with or without using "Rice" > > (Money). > > > > If you donot understand the connection between feeding the poor and > > religion mate, then it speaks volumes about your spirituality. You are worse > > than the Rice missionaries. Venkat you live up to this slogan "Moo mein Ram > > bhagal mein chura" > > > > Isaac > > > > *ven <ahvenkitesh@ gmail.com>* wrote: > > > > > > > > On 5/1/08, isaac verghese <[EMAIL PROTECTED] com <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>> > > wrote: > > > > > > Thats probably the most ignorant statement I have ever heard. Jesus > > > could not help himself..... ........how many Hindu gods are alive, Vikash? > > > Sorry if I am rude. > > > Jesus could not help himself but he helped a lot of people. Your young > > > immature mind , Vikash,will find that very difficult to comprehend mate. > > > Try > > > to become a better Hindu first , before you accuse others of > > > converting.Have you ever bought lunch for a poor adivasi or a poor Hindu > > > for > > > that matter? That wud be too much to expect from a bitter person like > > > you.People living in glass house should not ............ ....... > > > > > > Isaac > > > > > > > > > Isaac, > > Eg Lord Vishnu descended on earth as Rama's incarnation. The point is > > why do you emphasize, Jesus died so that he can save others. WE never hear a > > statement that Krishna, or Rama died so that they can save us. It is kind of > > contradictory. Our gods are eternal. Only a spark of them comes to earth as > > Rama, Krishna for a particular purpose. In fact all of us are sparks of god, > > our creator. > > > > Further, pray tell me .. what does feeding a poor have to do with > > religion. Shame on those rice missionaries who convert the poor by feeding > > them... This is the worst type of exploitation. Destroying their traditional > > religion. > > > > If christianity is so great .. why are American Indians in USA, South > > Africa the poorest and most exploited. Why are the Filippins the poorest in > > south east Asia. Why are so many Christian countries in Africa the poorest > > of the poor. Why christian missionaries do not open schools and feed hte > > poor there? > > > > Venkat > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > PS: Those who talk about principles rarely practice them. > > > > > > *vikash singh <vikash_singh@ yahoo.com <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>>*wrote: > > > > > > Try converting a Muslim, The next day your dead body > > > will be found. > > > Hindoos are good people that people trying to convert > > > are still alive. They should thank Jesus that they > > > deal with Hindus. > > > > > > Anyway Jesus couldn't help himself, what the hell he > > > will help the poor christians.. . . > > > > > > Vikash S. > > > --- Sachi <[EMAIL PROTECTED] co.uk <sachidadev%40yahoo..co.uk>> wrote: > > > > > > > As for my personal opinion any humans living in this > > > > world should be given > > > > right to practice any > > > > religion they want. It has been happening throught > > > > the world : Convertions > > > > What's wrong in Convertions, be it to Hinduism, to > > > > Chistianity , to Islam, > > > > to Buddhism. > > > > Anyone want to have debate on why conversions should > > > > not be allowed in a > > > > secular country like India? > > > > > > > > Bye, > > > > Sachi > > > > > > > > > > > > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ps.co.in <Jharkhand%40yahoogroups.co.in> > > > > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] ps.co.in <Jharkhand%40yahoogroups.co.in>] > > > On > > > > Behalf Of WILLIAM KISKU > > > > Sent: Sunday, April 27, 2008 1:04 AM > > > > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ps.co.in <Jharkhand%40yahoogroups.co.in> > > > > Subject: Re: RE: [ =>> Jharkhand <<= ] Conversion > > > > law violation is a > > > > criminal offence > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Well I am not a politician: I hate politicians. > > > > > > > > From my basic general knowledge the Indian > > > > constitution is based on British constitution, which > > > > is a western/christian based constitution, therefore > > > > contrarary to Hindutvas constitution. > > > > > > > > As far as my understanding goes, it is NOT > > > > illegal/criminal to convert christians back to > > > > Hindutva, but criminal to convert adivasis/tribals/ > > > > into Christianity. > > > > > > > > Advocate Ashutoshjee. .. Can you throw some light on > > > > this and educate the forum on the right of an > > > > individual to practice a religion based on the human > > > > right issue? > > > > > > > > William Kisku > > > > > > > > --- Gladson Dungdung <[EMAIL PROTECTED] com<nfindia%40rediffmail.com> > > > > <mailto:nfindia%40rediffmai l.com <nfindia%2540rediffmail.com>> > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > Hello, > > > > > > > > > > It's not the matter of Gladson or Venki. The real > > > > > matter is the state is becoming the violator human > > > > > rights in the name of freedom of religion and so > > > > on. > > > > > How can the State dictate which religion I should > > > > > follow, profess or decline? > > > > > > > > > > Father of the Nationa, Mahatma Gandhi had very > > > > clear > > > > > idies about it. He said that I'm a sanatan Hindu > > > > and > > > > > it's my personal matter therefore the state should > > > > > not dictate my religion. We have the right to > > > > > freedom of religion as the fundamental rights > > > > > guaranted by the Constitution of India under > > > > Article > > > > > 25 and the state is duty bound to ensure these > > > > > rights. If the state decides about whom I should > > > > > believe, what I should wear and so on then where > > > > my > > > > > freedom is? > > > > > > > > > > When a tribal or dalit becomes Christian, Muslim > > > > or > > > > > Budhist peole of the so-called main streem of the > > > > > society lose their sleep but why people do not > > > > raise > > > > > any question when a Sharma, Verma, Mishra and list > > > > > goes on accept/change their religion. > > > > > > > > > > Another thing is when a tribal becomes Christian, > > > > > Muslim or Budhist so-called people call it > > > > > "conversion" but when the same fellow becomes > > > > > 'Hundu' then they call it 'Ghar Vapsi'. what a > > > > > wonderful defination of conversion we have. > > > > > > > > > > This is nothing than the power politics. The major > > > > > reason is that the Tribals and Dalits are > > > > > challenging the statu quo as a result the Brahmins > > > > > have already lost their control in the politics > > > > and > > > > > now they are also going to lose their social > > > > > control, which they are not able to digest > > > > therefore > > > > > they blam in many ways to stop the social change > > > > > process. But nothing is going to work we will > > > > bring > > > > > about change in the society at any cost. I know > > > > that > > > > > many people feel uncomfortable in these issues > > > > > therefore it must be stopped but sometimes I > > > > > surprise that inspite of many request why do peole > > > > > put these matterials in the group. I don't have > > > > any > > > > > problem if people want to discuss let's discuss > > > > it, > > > > > otherwise I would requet to the Moderater please > > > > > don't pass any matter like this, which is > > > > > meaningless to discuss in the forum. > > > > > > > > > > rgds > > > > > Gladson > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Sat, 26 Apr 2008 BARBARA ali wrote : > > > > > >Hi, > > > > > > > > > > > >Its as simple as this, each one mind your own > > > > > business and let Venki and Gladson go hand in hand > > > > > and stand where ever they have to if they want to > > > > do > > > > > what ever they wish with their own lives. > > > > > > > > > > > >Bye > > > > > > > > > > > >BARBARA ALI > > > > > >SHARJAH > > > > > >UAE > > > > > >PO BOX 38485 > > > > > >Mobile No: 0097150-6914668 > > > > > >URL: > > > > > > > > > > > > Http://angloindianh eritagecentre. googlepages. com/anglo- > > > indianbiographie > > > s<http://angloindianheritagecentre.googlepages.com/anglo-indianbiographies> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ps.co.inFrom<Jharkhand%40yahoogroups.co.inFrom> > > > > <mailto:Jharkhand%40yahoogr > > > > oups.co.inFrom<Jharkhand%2540yahoogroups.co.inFrom>> > > > : > > > > > > > > [EMAIL PROTECTED] comDate <prabirkc%40yahoo.comDate> > > > > <mailto:prabirkc%40yahoo. comDate <prabirkc%2540yahoo.comDate>> : > > > Sat, 26 Apr > > > > 2008 08:01:51 > > > > > -0700Subject: Re: [ =>> Jharkhand <<= ] Conversion > > > > > law violation is a criminal offence > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >Hope somebody prevents the Dalai Lama, Rajneesh > > > > and > > > > > Mahesh Yogi's followers from entering Gujarat! > > > > > >Now what will we do if Venki converts Gladson to > > > > > Jainism? Will they arrest Gladson or Venki? > > > > > >And > > > > > >Prabir--- On Sat, 4/26/08, ven > > > > > <ahvenkitesh@ gmail.com <ahvenkitesh%40gmail.com> > > > > <mailto:ahvenkitesh% 40gmail.com <ahvenkitesh%2540gmail.com>> > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >I believe such a law such be enacted in Jharkhand > > > > > as soon as possible since the state is plagued by > > > > > unethical conversions of the poor.Conversion law > > > > > violation is a criminal offencehttp: //timesofindia > > > > > .indiatimes. com/Ahmedabad/ Conversion_ > > > > > law_violation_ is_a_criminal_ offence/articles > > > > > how/2984048. cms26 Apr 2008, 0332 hrs IST,Rajiv > > > > > Shah,TNNGANDHINAGAR : From now on, anyone wishing > > > > to > > > > > convert will have to tell the government why they > > > > > were doing it and for how long they had been > > > > > following the religion which they were renouncing, > > > > > failing which, they will be declared offenders and > > > > > prosecuted under criminal laws. Forced conversion > > > > > could land those responsible a three-year jail > > > > term. > > > > > This clause is contained in the rules of the > > > > > anti-conversion law which came into effect on > > > > April > > > > > 1.. The new law is called Gujarat Freedom of > > > > Religion > > > > > Act, 2003, and took five years to be implemented > > > > > because of the failure of the state government to > > > > > come up with rules on the kind of information to > > > > be > > > > > provided when applying for permission to convert > > > > to > > > > > any religion. The Bill confirms that Jainism and > > > > > Buddhism are not sub-sects of Hinduism. The rules > > > > > have been published in the Gujarat government > > > > > gazette. The rules make it obligatory for a priest > > > > > seeking to convert someone from one religion to > > > > > another to take prior permission of the district > > > > > magistrate in order to avoid police action. > > > > > >. > > > > > > > === message truncated === > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > *P V Isaac, > > > Home:9874 1819 Mob 0415 144 981. > > > * > > > ** *" What you resist, will persist"* > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > J h a r k h a n d F o r u m <http://www.jharkhand.org.in/forum>[image: > > > [EMAIL > > > PROTECTED]<http://livechat.boldchat.com/aid/3425823559901012311/bc.chat?cwdid=2183157464202456985> > > > Moderators > > > are here to chat *live* and answer your > > > questions**<http://www.jharkhand.org.in/forum> > > > * * > > > > > > > > > > > -- Arnab Sen Flat # 2622, Sector C Pocket 2 Vasant Kunj New Delhi 110070 INDIA Phone: (+91) 9811004308, (+91 11) 26124928
