PHP is not a scripting language. On Nov 17, 2007 9:01 AM, Xushi <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > Is it right to compare a "Programming Language" with a scripting > language in those terms ? > > > > On 17/11/2007, Ala'a Ibrahim <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > Well, I'm not a Java fan myself, I've always been C/C++ guy, till I > started > > working with PHP, but for me Programming Languages are tools that you > use to > > accomplish things, and that's the way I think we should look at them, > before > > starting the comparison. > > About performance, yes it's expected to have a lower performance, but it > > gained the speed the hardware is offering, but it feels that way cause > it's > > slower than everything else. well try running OpenOffice on a PII with a > > 32M/ RAM machine and you'll see there is a difference :P. > > About OO, well OO is a programming style, the language only offers you > tools > > that would make it easier to implement, I've written a lot of OO > > applications using C, and believe me, whatever the programing language > is > > fully OO, I can assure you that you can write your applications in a > > Top/Down code style. > > > > Also, strongly typed languages are not just about defining a space in > the > > memory, and one of the problems I had with PHP is that it doesn't have > the > > double type, I needed that while writing a package that calculates the > > praying times in a day, and the precision I needed for it, well it had > an > > error of minutes, which wasn't a good result, so I needed to write it in > C, > > and call it from PHP to get a better result. and sometimes you just need > to > > specify the actual type of a certain variable, in a big application, a > > variable tossed around the whole application his type might change in > the > > middle of something that has a bug, causing a logical error in the end. > I > > prefer to see that as a warning, or an error. > > > > Also code generators are not as bad as people talk about them, they are > very > > useful for all types of languages, I have bash and vim scripts all over > my > > machine that it's job is to generate certain code for me that I don't > think > > that I need to waste my time writing, it saves me a lot of time, also > most > > of the frameworks (including rails) have some certain feature that would > > generate part of the code for you. If I had a better knowledge with gtk > I > > would write a wizard to generate most of the stuff for me, like imagine > > every time I need to write a class, I would write the basic class > structure > > that I use for most of the classes I write. also I hope I can write a > class > > generator for inherited classes, to at least write the function > prototype > > for all the abstract functions in its parent. using my written > generators, I > > managed to cut down about 25% of the time I need to write a certain > > application, we really waste a lot of time writing stupid stuff that we > > don't even think about. > > > > it's a very nice quote, but when it comes to the point that Java runs on > all > > platforms, well this is really not true, have you ever tried Java with a > > 64bit OS (which is not Mac of course), it's a real pain in the A**. also > I > > guess there is no Programming language that runs on all platforms, it > should > > say it's easy to be ported to all platforms, and the best thing to do to > > achieve that, is to publish your source code, and use only open source > > libraries in it ( i.e. comply to the gnu standards), that way, someone > might > > figure out a way to run it on his system, and whatever Suns CEO says, > Java > > is still not open source which makes porting harder. > > > > If you want to see on it's best performance, try it on Mac OSX, as it's > > built into the core of the OS, (an upgrade of the JVM used to require a > > reboot, I don't know how it is now, I haven't used a Mac in a very long > > time). > > > > but still a lot of problems arise in scripted languages, like the system > > exceptions, it's different from a language to another, but for example, > PHP > > (as when it was built it wasn't written to be a language that supports > OO) > > till the moment, a lot of errors can happen and you have no way of > handling > > them in your application, I know it's uncommon, but for me, I had to > deal > > with a lot of Segmentation Faults with it, also the common problem, a > Fatal > > Error for reaching the maximum memory limit, cannot be handled via PHP > in a > > productive way. > > > > This is what is on my mind right now, I have to go back to working :P > > > > On 11/16/07, Al-Faisal El-Dajani < [EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > Hey Guys, > > > > > > I just had a _very_ heated debate with a friend of mine about the > merits > > of using Java, and just wanted your input on the matter. I was a Java > fan up > > until I left university and met the real world, and there, the whole > > paradigm of predefined variables just crumpled on itself. > > > > > > I just can't stop thinking that in the 12 years that Java has existed > (and > > hardware has evolved 8x, according to moore's law), Java applications > have > > not gained one ounce of speed that the hardware should be giving. I > mean, > > they seem to be some kind of performance blackholes. Seriously, whenever > I > > use any Java application (Azureus, OpenOffice, Eclipse), I actually feel > > physical pain. > > > > > > And ever since I tried out PHP and Ruby, I just completely lost faith > in > > ALL strongly typed languages. I mean, come on, do I really need to > specify > > that this variable is a double? It's some space in memory that I use to > > whatever ends I see fit. If you want to protect me as a developer from > using > > my variables in the way I want, then perhaps the language should be > > developed using wizards and auto code generators like a certain set of > other > > languages does. > > > > > > The Java proponents, however, keep saying "well, it works on all > > platforms". That is true, but I'll take online applications over Java > anyday > > of the week. I actually _prefer_ network latency to Java's performance, > at > > least the PC would be free to do a sophisticated thing as > "Multitasking". > > And sometimes I retort with this qoute which usually shuts them up :). > > > > > > Another point that Java proponents use (or at least try to), is the > claim > > that Java is an OO language as opposed to PHP (and they seem to prefer > JSP > > over PHP, go figure...). Of course I would (politely) point to them that > > PHP5 is OO, and more importantly that Java is not fully OO. No offense, > but > > ever after using Ruby, I don't view Java to be the pinnacle of OO (as it > > shouldn't be). > > > > > > Now don't get me wrong, this extends to languages far beyond Java, but > the > > question I have is: Am I being overly critical of Java? Is there any > merit > > to my points? or theirs? What's your input? > > > > > > -- > > > Al-Faisal El-Dajani > > > Phone: +962-7-79 73 70 50 > > > P.O Box: 140056 > > > 11814 Amman, Jordan > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > Ala'a A. Ibrahim > > http://guru.alaa-ibrahim.com/ > > > > > > > > > > -- > \/ushi - xushi.co.uk > /\ - socialprotest.com > > > > --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Jolug" group. To post to this group, send email to [email protected] To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/Jolug?hl=en-GB -~----------~----~----~----~------~----~------~--~---
