Copied over from Kate's message on the other thread: (https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/julia-users/cIghG0GJ114%5B101-125%5D)
> Here are my views on some of the questions/themes I see raised in this > thread. > - Why are you against calling Julia “she” or saying things like “court > her”? > I think many women who might otherwise contribute will be alienated by it. > I personally am not often one for language policing but I find this > terminology annoying and unpleasant. It makes me want to interact less with > the Julia community, which I otherwise enjoy very much. > True - and the both the simple genderization of using the feminine pronoun "she" (at least in English and other languages where it can be avoided) and the anthropomorphizing (and sexualizing) "court her" should be pointed out, as something that does not belong in the Julia community, as people can be made to feel unwelcome by it. (BTW, when I made a slip this summer of using the pronoun "her", I did appreciate you pointing it out to me, and telling me about the "Julia Community Standards" document, and have been sure not to do so again) - Women should just deal with it, then. > This is a position you are free to hold. But if you want more women in the > Julia community then saying they are just too thin-skinned is not helping > our case. There are many women who don't find this sort of thing annoying > at all, but because there are few women in the open source community, the > number of women who are both in OSS and not alienated by this language is > small. Julia won't be able to attract many women if we keep saying/doing > things that drive a large fraction of women away. > You right - but I do think that people (men and women) should understand the problem of non-native speakers of using gender, and deal with it, not by accepting it, but by gentle instruction about the correct way of speaking about Julia in English. If the person stops doing so, very good, it was a teachable moment. If not, that's when it becomes a real problem, that possibly needs to be dealt with by "the powers that be", i.e. moderators, etc. Keep this in mind from the JCS: Keep in mind that most mistakes are due to ignorance rather than malice. - I don't care if there are more women in the community./If I have to stop > speaking in this way to attract more women, it's not worth it to me. > Ok. But the maintainers/owners care about having more women involved. > Good for them (the maintainers/owners)! > - It's a free country, I should be able to say “Julia is beautiful and I > would date her.” > Absolutely. But you aren't owed space on official Julia mailing lists to > say it. > Yes - the second part is a clear example of anthropomorphizing and sexualizing Julia. The first part is trickier - I'd say that the simple use of the word "beautiful" is *not* necessarily anthropomorphizing, you say a beach is beautiful, a park is beautiful, etc., although it would be clearer and better to say: "The julia language is beautiful", maybe as part of "The julia language is beautiful, because of its multiple dispatch, type system, and metaprogramming" - I don't understand why this is a problem for women. In my language it's > normal to say this sort of thing/I just can't understand it. > It's perfectly fine to disagree with me about whether this “should” be a > problem (although I think this is a silly question to ask). But if you were > allergic to my perfume (or you just really hated the smell) and I kept > wearing it to work even after you'd asked me to stop several times, > everyone would consider me rude. Our boss might even require that I stop > wearing it, even if I really liked the perfume. Out of respect for my > coworker and boss I'd do my best to stop wearing the perfume, even if I > didn't understand why he hated the smell. Right, coming from another language where you can't avoid the genderization can excuse the first time it is done, but not consistent use after being informed that it isn't correct in English. (It could excuse possible *occasional* slipups - for example, I still make genderization mistakes in Spanish after 18 years of mostly speaking Spanish! You really *don't* want to get the gender wrong in Spanish when saying "I love to eat chicken", something I had problems with for ages),
