"It’s also based on evidence –" Evidence?! You certainly lost me there. and it reminds me why I ve stopped debating this a while back. In the end of the day its all about opinions, and we all know the old adage about opinions and arses which renders most discussions futile after a short while.
Eric On Thu, Jan 10, 2013 at 4:12 AM, Gav Burnage <gav.burn...@googlemail.com>wrote: > OK, here we go then, a quick one-off response for a change – with > apologies and please delete / jog on down the digest if you’re > uninterested, easily offended, or an atheist botherer. > > To be honest, I’ve got no real interest in religion, whatever it is, and no > need or desire to defend it. > > My Christian faith, on the other hand, is based on reason. It’s perfectly > reasonable to assume that we and the universe we live in are the creation > of an enormous power way above our comprehension. (And if it’s true, it’s > profoundly unreasonable to think otherwise). > > It’s also based on evidence – Jesus said he was that powerful God > intervening as a human being to get us out of the fine mess we’ve got > ourselves into. (Happy Christmas!) > To that end, he lived our life, died our death, for us – and then > physically rose again to a new kind of existence. > > That is a very unusual claim: then, as now, dead people, especially those > beaten up and tortured to death, don’t just rise up to a new kind of life; > they remain stubbornly dead. But that’s the claim here – and it’s a > straightforward historical Yes/No prove-all: If Jesus really rose, > physically, then happy endings are here to stay, along with faith, hope and > love, and mankind really is onto a winner. (Happy Easter!) > > If he didn’t, Christians are the saddest cases in existence. At least, > that’s what the bible says. > > The more I find out about the bible, the more gobsmacked I am by it. So > many different books, stories, documents, and accounts, written by people > (ostensibly at least), for people, over hundreds, even thousands of years, > which join together in such a coherent and profound whole, showing how God > loved and saved us by becoming one of us. The Bible says how he said he was > going to do it, and then says from first-hand eye-witness accounts how he > did do it. And it gives a few tantalizing pointers into the amazing future > ahead too. No historical documents have been subject to as much scrutiny, > claim, and counter-claim, and still held up. Check it out. > > There’s reason, there’s evidence, and there’s also experience. The > spiritual experiences I and millions of others have had confirm that Jesus > is alive and active right here and now. > And now I’ve seen too much, and there’s no going back. Drug addicts and > drunks clean and sober, living well. People in even the worst, most > inexplicable kind of suffering helped, healed and given heartfelt, tangible > hope, enough to hold on. And there's no one beyond this. Not even me. > > If there is no God and everything is random, then good and bad and even > reason and life itself is all a specious temporary irrelevance on a > mind-bogglingly enormous scale, and “we’re all doomed” in a lugubrious > Scottish undertaker accent, doesn’t even begin to come close to how grim > "things" really are. > > And finally: Football is all about teamwork and support networks in the > joint pursuit of a higher goal, at every level. How can footie fans, of all > people, not "believe" in "organized religion"? All the singing, handwaving, > and self-righteous offence-taking? All the worship of player-idols, all the > baying for the blood and sacrifice of inadequate managers? All the boring > legalistic stattoes? All the ritualised drinking of alcohol? The heaps of > cash, and the hopes of trophy glory? All the mindless turning up even when > it's boring and rubbish? And not to mention the endless hatred and even the > ongoing, non-metaphorical smiting of enemy tribes? Flip me, even this email > list requires organization, policemen and cash to keep going. > > Mustn't get on the high horse tho, I've been there and done all that too of > course (apart from the smiting, obviously…). But then, like I say, I'm not > really out to defend 'religion'. I think the local church is the way > forward - a bunch of people trusting Jesus meeting to worship God and work > with him and each other in and for the world. And in that fallen world, > there are well-run clubs and badly run clubs and indifferently run clubs; > there are good supporters, bad supporters, indifferent supporters etc etc. > That bible book also suggests it’s going to be like this till Jesus shows > up again to finish off once and for all the good work he’s started. > > Back to lurk, and to work, > Cheers, > Gav > DaRealRev, Church of the Real Man – Jesus Christ > > (Sorry for shamelessly nicking your old tagline John :-) > _______________________________________________ > Leedslist mailing list > Info and options: > http://mailman.greennet.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/leedslist > To unsubscribe, email leedslist-unsubscr...@gn.apc.org > > PETE CASS (1962 - 2011) Rest In Peace Mate > _______________________________________________ Leedslist mailing list Info and options: http://mailman.greennet.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/leedslist To unsubscribe, email leedslist-unsubscr...@gn.apc.org PETE CASS (1962 - 2011) Rest In Peace Mate
