I was originally taking this one offlist to talk to Verner in private but I have to say that Mark Humphries knows nowt with his Republican revisionist (really Mark it is revisionist to paint the IRA as freedom fighters) theory and I apologise to the list for polluting your already busy inboxes.
As I've told you all before I'm a fellow Ulsterman and Irishman (with that nice man Verner) but my family paint our kerbs in both sets of colours, admittedly in different parts of the City of Belfast. Both my grandfathers were Protestants and both my grandmothers were Catholic. Until a couple of years ago I hated the Loyalists with a passion and gave credence to actions of the IRA on the basis that the end justified the means. In my advancing years (45 next year) I know this is total bollocks and in retrospect both sides of the peace line should have sat down and talked a long time ago. I'm even beginning to like Ian Paisley ffs, he seems like a true politician genuinely working for the benefit of all of the people of my homeland, hell he even talks to Gerry Adams and Martin McGuinness now. Anyway getting to the whole point of this mail, Mark Humphries, take it from one who lived through the worst of the "Troubles" in Norn Iron on the front line, everyone is a lot happier now that most of the guns have been decommissioned and the talking heads are actually talking face to face and not shouting at each other using megaphones across a barricade. I think it will be a few hundred years before the two sides of the Christian/Moslem world can do the same. -----Original Message----- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Errand Fivefold Sent: Thursday, November 08, 2007 12:19 PM To: Leeds United E-Mail List Subject: Re: [LU] NON LU - 2K Terrorists Dearest Mark…….. Questions 1+ 2 Here's a very rough breakdown, with all "legitimate" targets removed as per your definition of "legitimate", I'll not mention the dozens of soldiers/MPs/Policemen murdered in England...........who you deem to be “legitimate”. Quite a busy little bunch the IRA.... 8 March 1973: The Provisional IRA conducted its first operation in mainland Britain , planting four car bombs in London . Two bombs exploded, killing one person and injuring 180 others. 17 June 1974: A bomb exploded at the Houses of Parliament in London , causing extensive damage and injuring 11 people.[22] 5 October 1974: The Guildford pub bombing kills five and injures 182. 7 November 1974: An off-duty soldier and a civilian were killed when a bomb was thrown through the window of the Kings Head pub in Woolwich, and 28 people were injured. 21 November 1974: In the Birmingham Pub Bombings bombs in two pubs kill 19. 21 December 1974: A bomb was defused in Harrods department store in Knightsbridge, London. A second bomb was defused in the King's Arms public house in Warminster, Wiltshire.[23] 27 February 1975: Off-duty police officer Stephen Tibble was shot and killed as he joined in the chase of a suspect on his motorbike in Barons Court, London. The suspect had been spotted by a detective coming out of a house which was later discovered to be an IRA bomb factory.[26] 27 August 1975: A bomb exploded without warning at the Caterham Arms public house, in Caterham, Surrey. 10 off-duty soldiers and 23 civilians were injured.[25] 28 August 1975: Seven people were injured when a bomb exploded in Oxford Street, London. A telephone warning was issued to The Sun newspaper five minutes before the explosion.[28] 5 September 1975: Two people are killed and 63 injured when an IRA bomb explodes in the lobby of the Hilton hotel in London . [29] 3 November 1975: A 33 year old lawyer was injured by a car bomb in Connaught Square , London W2.[28] 27 November 1975: The IRA killed businessman and TV personality Ross McWhirter, 6–12 December 1975: Four IRA members held two people hostage in the Balcombe Street Siege.[31] 9 May 1981: A bomb exploded at an oil terminal in the Shetland Islands, while Queen Elizabeth II was attending a nearby function to mark the opening of the terminal.[40] 26 October 1981: A bomb exploded at a Wimpy Bar in Oxford Street, London, killing the bomb disposal officer trying to defuse it.[42][43] 14 November 1981: The IRA killed Ulster Unionist Party MP Rev Robert Bradford along with the caretaker of a community centre. Irish Taoiseach Dr Garret FitzGerald and former taoiseach and opposition leader Charles Haughey condemned the killings in the Dáil Éireann. SDLP party leader John Hume accused the IRA of waging a campaign of "sectarian genocide".[40][44] 17 December 1983: The Harrods bombing in London killed six people including three police officers, and injured 75 other people.[48] 25 June 1990: A bomb exploded at the Carlton Club in London , injuring 20 people.[42] 20 July 1990: The IRA detonated a bomb at the London Stock Exchange.[69] 18 February 1991: A bomb exploded at Victoria Station. One man was killed and 38 people injured. A bomb also exploded at Paddington Station, but there were no injuries.[42] 15 November 1991: Two IRA members were killed in St Albans when their bomb detonated prematurely. A civilian was also injured.[42][74] 28 February 1992: A bomb was detonated at London Bridge railway station injuring 29 people.[42] 10 April 1992: A large bomb was detonated at 30 St Mary Axe in the City of London killing three people and injuring 91. Many buildings were heavily damaged including the Baltic Exchange.[42][78] 12 October 1992: An explosive device exploded in a toilet of the Sussex Arms public house in Covent Garden killing one person and injuring four others.[42] 20 March 1993: Two IRA bombs exploded in Warrington, killing two children and injuring over fifty people.[79] 24 April 1993: The IRA detonated a huge truck bomb at Bishopsgate in the City of London, which killed one person and injured 44 more. The explosion caused damage estimated at £1bn, including the near destruction of St Ethelburga's Bishopsgate. Two bombs also exploded in hijacked minicabs in London , but nobody was injured.[42][80] 19 February 1994: A number of incendiary devices were left in shops in London , including Burton stores in Regent Street and New Oxford Street. One device destroyed a newsagents shop, three caused minor damage, and several others were made safe.[42] 8 March 1994: Four mortar shells were fired from a car towards Heathrow Airport. The shells landed inside on or near the northern runway, but failed to explode.[42] 10 March 1994: The IRA launched a second attack on Heathrow, firing four mortar shells over the perimeter fence which landed near Terminal Four but failed to explode.[42] 13 March 1994: The IRA defied tightened security to launch a third attack on Heathrow, firing five mortar shells over the perimeter fence which landed near Terminal Four but failed to explode.[42] Later that night both Heathrow and Gatwick airports were closed for 2 hours after coded telephoned bomb threats were received.[82] 22 August 1994: A high explosive device was defused outside a Laura Ashley shop in Regent Street, London.[42] 10 February 1996: The IRA ended its 1994 ceasefire, killing two civilians in a bombing adjacent to the South Quay DLR station in London Docklands. The initial estimate of the damage caused was £85m.[86] 15 February 1996: A bomb placed in a phone booth on the Charing Cross Road in London is made safe using a controlled explosion.[42] 18 February 1996: An improvised high explosive device detonated prematurely on a bus in Aldwych, in central London , killing Edward O'Brien, the IRA operative transporting the device and injuring eight others.[87] 15 June 1996: The IRA detonated a 3,000 lb bomb in Manchester, injuring over 200 people and causing damage valued at £411m. This was the largest IRA bomb ever detonated in Great Britain, and the largest bomb to explode in Great Britain since the Second World War.[88][89] Question 4: How many time have the IRA not given warnings?...........more than Al Quaeda. Question 5: How many IRA bombers were suicide bombers?.........not enough, unfortunately. Maybe they didn't have the courage of their convictions and valued their own lives, way and above the lives of the people they indiscriminately murdered? Question 6: How many aircraft were flown into skyscrapers with no warning? Not many I'd grant you, but in your mind does flying a plane into a building less "legitimate" than blowing one up with semtex? How many planes have Al Qaeda flown into buildings in England ? Does forcing innocent people to drive bombs into army checkpoint/police stations by threatening to kill their families (so called proxy-bombs) have a higher moral standpoint? Is mortar bombing Heathrow Airport , bombing shops/train stations/pubs morally better than blowing up a Tube Train? Not in my mind. Question 7: Where the IRA subject to an International War on Terror? No, but what does that have to do with the price of fish?????? The IRA have never been a major problem to the good old US of A, where the majority of the vast sums of money to allow the IRA to torture and murder at will was raised. No president of the USA wanted to take on the Irish-American vote so a blind eye was always turned to both fund raising and harbouring wanted IRA criminals. FACT. I'm getting bored now.........but for goodness sake, DO NOT TRY AND LEGITIMISE THE IRA AND MAKE OUT THEY WERE MORE NOBLE THAN AL QAEDA. They are all filth, as is anyone who terrorises innocent people. IMHO. Verner Mark Humphries <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: How many civilians in England were killed by the IRA? And over what period of their campaign to bomb the mainland? Or another way of making my point, if their intention was to just kill English people, firstly why? Because they were protestant? And secondly why the fuck did they give warnings to the authorities? How many times have al-qaeda warned of a specific bombing? How many IRA terrorists were suicide bombers? How many aircraft were flown into skyscrapers (with no warning)? Were the IRA subject of an ‘international war on terror’? They bombed England to directly and indirectly apply political pressure on the government to “give back” NI. Terrorists are scum in all their guises, the point I am trying to make is that al-qaeda are DIFFERENT from the IRA. They have different motivations, different agendas and a different way of ruining peoples lives. Sinn Fein and the IRA wanted to force the UK govt to sit and negotiate with them. Al-qaeda just want us all dead. And of course innocent people are innocent people whatever the nationality or wherever they live, however if they live in the disputed territory and are surrounded by the ‘war’ then they are more likely to become victims for whatever reason (wrong place wrong time, wrong religion in the wrong area, tit-for-tat, drinking in a catholic/protestant pub, mistaken identity and so on). This is also abhorrent and I do wish you wouldn’t accuse me of being an IRA sympathiser or revisionist or something, you couldn’t be further from the truth if you tried. Verner tHe LiTtLe YeLlOw DaFfOdIl @}-,-'-- _______________________________________________ the Leeds List is an unmoderated mailing list and the list administrators accept no liability for the personal views and opinions of contributors. Leedslist mailing list [email protected] http://list.zetnet.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/leedslist 6 in a bloody row! No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.503 / Virus Database: 269.15.26/1119 - Release Date: 08/11/2007 17:55 No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.503 / Virus Database: 269.15.26/1119 - Release Date: 08/11/2007 17:55 _______________________________________________ the Leeds List is an unmoderated mailing list and the list administrators accept no liability for the personal views and opinions of contributors. Leedslist mailing list [email protected] http://list.zetnet.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/leedslist 6 in a bloody row!
