We do and it is a bloody disaster Don't touch it. The three main drawbacks are: 1. The candidate alegiance is to the list. And the apparatus. Not to the constituency. 2. Any nut case cause can get in. So there are a lot of causes and no overall agenda. 3. On forming a government the balance of power is held by frlinge lunatics. Look at the mess we are in over East Jerusalem. We are trying to get to your system but no major party can form a coalition with partners who would agree. It would be very popular but it means major parties sitting together and that is an ego problem. In short useless and imposslible to get rid of. Avoid it at all cost. You are throwing the baby out with the bathwater and smashing the bathroom. Michael
Dr. Michael Benjamin Sent from my iPhone On 30 Apr 2010, at 20:25, Guy Thornton <[email protected]> wrote: On 30 Apr 2010 at 11:50, Jim Moran wrote: Having no experience of any other system, I have no idea if this is the best way or not. What countries have true proportional representation, and how does it work out for them? On 30 April 2010 11:41, Tim Leslie wrote: ... until the Victorian system of local boundaries for a National election are abolished and everyone can vote knowing it will count, then British Politics, for me, is a sham and not in any way shape or form, representative of 'The will of the people' I've lived in several countries with proportional systems and know the systems used elswhere as well (okay I'm a member of the ERS). As to what true proportional respresentation is is a matter of debate. Here in the Netherlands with the list system a party gets the exact number of seats in proportion to the votes it gets with no minimum barrier, such as Germany with a 5% requirement. You can also have PR systems such as STV which give you a choice of not just party but the candiates in the party to be elected, even caondiates in other parties. Yes, PR can mean that minority groups be they far right, extreme religious parties can be elected but there's the argument better the enemy you know that ... and having them in the parliamentary system can disarm them more than having them outside it. True it can take longer in getting a working coalition together after an election that having one party with an overall majority but it doesn't cause any problems and it gives as strong and stable a sytem of government as first past the post. Any problems tend be down to political instability of that country which equally applies to other countries with PR (and we're not just talking dictatorships). Ignore the whinging of politicialns of whatever party that not having a hung/balanced parliament would be end of democracy as we know it, the collapse of economic system (hasn't that already happened), weak and vacilating govdernment, etc. They're just miffed because it would mean the end of tweedledum-tweedledee politics and rob them of an abosolute majority. They would have to learn to cooperate and work together. Have a look at Scotland and Wales to see it working close to home. And don't forget Northern Ireland. Sure, it's still a country with a lot of problems but those problems where a lot bigger before PR and most likely would still be if PR hadn't been introduced. As to last nights leadership debate sure, they views as to who performed the best are going to vary but for everyone taking the "a plague on all politicians"attitude then do something about it like standing for election yourself. There's no point in moaning about the behavious of politicians, they're just people like ourselves with all the foibles and failings as well as the good point. If you don't like then go for, stand and see if you can do better. On the nationality question I haven't bothered to get dutch nationality but that's mainly because of the price they charge for it. Plus they claim you can't have dual naionality and have to give your original one up (though AFAIK you can't actually use your british nationality). It does irk me that I can't vote in General Eelections but ony local, regional and EU elections. Okay, I've been a candidate in council elections but taxes are a national thing and "No taxation without representation". Personally I'd be happy for nationality, passports, ect to die out. I'm Yorkshire, yes, and proud of it but english? what's that? british maybe I can see a little more logic in but as the vet put down as race on the registration certicate for my cat "European Short Hair" I'm happy to desribe myself as "(North) European (short) hair from the Yorkshire region". guy _______________________________________________ the Leeds List is an unmoderated mailing list and the list administrators accept no liability for the personal views and opinions of contributors. Leedslist mailing list [email protected] http://list.zetnet.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/leedslist and the hardest time in a sailor's day is to watch the sun as it sails away _______________________________________________ the Leeds List is an unmoderated mailing list and the list administrators accept no liability for the personal views and opinions of contributors. Leedslist mailing list [email protected] http://list.zetnet.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/leedslist and the hardest time in a sailor's day is to watch the sun as it sails away
