Hi Greg, Now you've explained your frustration over the European sniping of Africa getting the world cup I can sort of understand your view point with regards to your frustration at my comments bascially slating the competition to date. I think bringing colour into the argument though was a step too far. Again, I will tell you by saying 'Africans' I meant ALL Africans invovled with football whateber their colour.
'Diluted' - so let me try and explain this. It's all down to this bloody horn - I think it removes everything that is fundamental to the game as we know it. The passion of the fans, the singing, the banter, the highs and lows of a football match. All this is replaced with a permanent din which seems to rise slightly for goals and corners then just returns throughout the match. It dilutes the experience of the game for me, it takes away the heart of a football match. Like replacing a real person with a robot that talks mechanically and has no inflexion or passion in their voice. Does that make sense ? Richard ----- Original Message ---- From: Greg Adams <[email protected]> To: Eric B <[email protected]> Cc: list leedslist <[email protected]>; Richard Walker <[email protected]> Sent: Mon, 14 June, 2010 9:39:39 Subject: Re: [LU] A few England thoughts Eric I would argue that Richard brought color into the argument by specifically targeting "Africans" in his original post. Who are these "Aricans" if not the black people of the continent? I do not believe that you can separate the two. Even people from North Africa are treated as black by europeans. But lets leave it at that. I do not want to get into a fight with anybody about this. I am just a bit pissed off with all the sniping from europe from the minute it was announced that South Africa would be hosting the cup. The majority of visitors at the games have said that in the stadiums, the "noise" of the vuvuzelas is not the problem it comes across on TV. Thousands of fans from other countries have bought the horns and are merrily blowing them at the games, so it can't all be bad. (sorry!) The vuvuzela is a loud bastard and you don't want anyone blowing it directly in your ear, but the moaning about the vuvuzela is becoming more irritating than the actual thing itself. I am interested to hear Richards "diluted" arguments tho' Greg Eric B wrote: > Greg, > > I didnt think of Richards comments are racist until you mentioned it. > Thats OK, but dont forget you brought the color in this. > In this case that fucking horn they re blowing is annoying, even > watching the games on telly. Its really that simple, its not about the > color > of the blower, color of the horn or any other color. Forgive us for > being annoyed with this and bless the other organizers for not having > these horns. > > I too was baffled by Richards "diluted" comment but hey, I wasnt in > his head when he wrote it, so I ll refrain from guessing. > > Eric > > On Mon, Jun 14, 2010 at 5:47 PM, Greg Adams <[email protected]> wrote: > >> Because Africa is black, the vast majority of Africans are black. And >> because by far the majority of people who play, watch and run the game in >> Africa are black! The vuvuzela was used by black people at football stadiums >> where the majority of supporters are black. It is only very recently that >> the vast majority of white South Africans - who are mainly rugby union >> supporters - have taken to the vuvuzela. You might think (delude yourself?) >> that when you say African you don't mean black, but African people know that >> when people say African, they mean black. I have lived in South Africa a >> long time, and I can guarantee you that any black man or woman in this >> country will tell you the same. It is born of a long history of colonialism >> and slavery by - amongst others - european settlers. You cannot distinguish >> between black and African in this context. Pathetic? I don't think so. >> >> But it is your second paragraph that intrigues me most. Would you care to >> explain how does football values get diluted by the competition being given >> to an African country? Just what are these values you are talking about? >> And who gets to decide what these values are? >> >> I have been on the list for a long time, and I don't recall you saying >> anything about football values being compromised when the WC was held in >> Japan and Korea. Or Germany for that matter. So what do you expect me to >> think? >> >> Just to clarify : I am not saying that you are a racist ( I don't know you >> well enough to judge), but I am saying that your statement could be >> construed as being racist in its content. I certainly picked it up that >> way. >> >> Greg >> >> >> Richard Walker wrote: >> >>> Greg, >>> >>> I said I wouldn't expect anything else from the Africans. So that means >>> 'AFRICANS' I.e the people who play the game, the people who watch the game >>> and the people who run the game. Why the fuck bring colour into it ? >>> Pathetic! >>> Just to clarify my point I was implying that football vlues as we know >>> them are being diluted by giving the biggest competition in the world to >>> countries like South Africa. Yes it's a world cup but that doesn't mean I >>> have to like it. >>> >>> >>> Sent from my iPhone >>> >>> On 13 Jun 2010, at 22:04, Greg Adams <[email protected]> wrote: >>> >>> Richard Walker wrote: >>> >>> <snip> >>> >>> I wouldn't have expected anything else from the Africans . >>> >>> So, tell us richard, do you include the white africans in this? Or only >>> the black ones? >>> >>> Sounds like a racist statement to me. >>> >>> And anyway, if you took the time to look, you'll see lots of supporters in >>> the colors of other teams blowing on these horns. >>> >>> The vast majority of the visiting supporters have said that the vuvuzela >>> actually adds to the atmosphere in the stadium, and you cant walk anywhere >>> without seeing Brazilians, Mexicans, Africans, Asians and yes, even pale >>> faced europeans with the horns. >>> >>> So lets see, the tournament has started, the stadiums are all complete, no >>> white women have been raped by big black men with huge horns (pun intended), >>> no young (white) kids have been hacked to death, so what shall we moan >>> about? Oh yes, the noise from the vuvuzela. >>> >>> Get over your white self FFS >>> >>> Greg >>> >>> Azanian Whites >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> the Leeds List is an unmoderated mailing list and the list administrators >>> accept no liability for the personal views and opinions of contributors. >>> Leedslist mailing list >>> [email protected] >>> http://list.zetnet.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/leedslist >>> and the hardest time in a sailor's day is to watch the sun as it sails >>> away >>> >>> >>> No virus found in this incoming message. >>> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 9.0.829 / Virus Database: >>> 271.1.1/2932 - Release Date: 06/11/10 20:35:00 >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> the Leeds List is an unmoderated mailing list and the list administrators >>> accept no liability for the personal views and opinions of contributors. >>> Leedslist mailing list >>> [email protected] >>> http://list.zetnet.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/leedslist >>> and the hardest time in a sailor's day is to watch the sun as it sails >>> away >>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------ >>> >>> >>> No virus found in this incoming message. >>> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 9.0.829 / Virus Database: >>> 271.1.1/2932 - Release Date: 06/11/10 20:35:00 >>> >>> >>> >> _______________________________________________ >> the Leeds List is an unmoderated mailing list and the list administrators >> accept no liability for the personal views and opinions of contributors. >> Leedslist mailing list >> [email protected] >> http://list.zetnet.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/leedslist >> and the hardest time in a sailor's day is to watch the sun as it sails away >> >> > > _______________________________________________ > the Leeds List is an unmoderated mailing list and the list administrators > accept no liability for the personal views and opinions of contributors. > Leedslist mailing list > [email protected] > http://list.zetnet.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/leedslist > and the hardest time in a sailor's day is to watch the sun as it sails away > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > Version: 9.0.829 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2932 - Release Date: 06/11/10 > 20:35:00 > > _______________________________________________ the Leeds List is an unmoderated mailing list and the list administrators accept no liability for the personal views and opinions of contributors. Leedslist mailing list [email protected] http://list.zetnet.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/leedslist and the hardest time in a sailor's day is to watch the sun as it sails away _______________________________________________ the Leeds List is an unmoderated mailing list and the list administrators accept no liability for the personal views and opinions of contributors. Leedslist mailing list [email protected] http://list.zetnet.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/leedslist and the hardest time in a sailor's day is to watch the sun as it sails away
