On 30 October 2012 20:46, Frederik Ramm <frede...@remote.org> wrote: > On 10/30/12 08:19, Igor Brejc wrote: > >> Some then say that these in-memory data structures are also Derivative >> Databases. In what form can you then offer such a Database to someone >> that requests it? >> > > I don't think there's a way how one could require the making available of > such a transient structure without making OSM data processing totally > impractical. >
I'm pretty sure I was the one who mentioned that issue last time the question came up, or at least one of the few who did. The main issue is that there isn't really a clear line between a permanent database and a transient structure. Consider some scenarios: 1) Someone uses osmosis to import data into PostgreSQL, and then uses mapnik to render images 2) Someone uses a single tool which imports the data into a temporary PostgreSQL database, renders from it, and removes the temporary database 3) Someone uses that single tool, but with HSQL or another in-memory database that never gets written to disk 4) Someone uses a tool that uses specific in-memory data structures rather than general SQL-based ones 5) Someone uses a tool that runs on a data grid like Hadoop/Infinispan/Hazelcast, so everything is processed iteratively, transient, and spread across multiple machines. Which of those count as creating a Derivative Database and which ones don't? The term "database" doesn't have anything to do with SQL or being on disk. Also important is that as someone who receives a copy of the Produced Work, you can't tell how it's produced. What is to stop someone doing (1) and then when you ask for the database just saying "it was all done in-memory, there's no database"? Making those transient structures available is impractical as you say, but that doesn't necessarily mean the license doesn't say that. To quote the ODbL: "Database – A collection of material (the Contents) arranged in a systematic or methodical way and individually accessible by electronic or other means offered under the terms of this License.". If I create an in-memory data structure to hold map geometry, then I'd think it's both arranged systematically and electronically accessible. Turning it the another way, say you had OSM data and another database, which you had separately rendered to images. I'm pretty sure that you could then overlay one image on another and serve the combined one to people (provided you satisfy the attribution requirements for the OSM data). If on the other hand you combined the two databases and then rendered the images, you would have a Derived Database you need to release. How is anyone else supposed to tell the difference? If they ask you to release the combined database and you replied "They were rendered separately and then combined, I don't have to release it", is there anything to do? -- James
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