Thanks Kent, With that my Python path to Jamstack/IndieWeb would be some Python based static site generator and brython to add interactive JavaScript powered features here and there. Now I've started exploring form creators to enable non-tech users to add content to the site.
Cheers, Offray On 12/11/20 9:45 a. m., Kent Tenney wrote: > Another interesting project is Brython, Python in the browser > https://brython.info/ > good documentation and demo > > very heavy development, easy to install and run locally > > - git clone https://github.com/brython-dev/brython.git > - cd brython/www > - python3 -m http.server > - browse to localhost:8000 > > (current trunk returns 404 for 'Tutorial' ) > > On Mon, Nov 9, 2020 at 12:27 PM Offray Vladimir Luna Cárdenas > <off...@riseup.net <mailto:off...@riseup.net>> wrote: > > Hi, > > In a world where JavaScript is a commonplace, disliking it becomes > automatically opinionated :-). > > I put sparkles of JS here and there for my web sites, but I don't > plan to make it my main programming language and now that JS > transpilers are becoming a more common place I plan to keep using > Pharo as much as possible, as for now, nothing beats its live > coding experience and programming environment. So I would say the > "J" of Jamstack is more about "JavaScript as a bridge" that as the > primary language, as the "P" in LAMP Stack meant PHP, but in some > context became Python or Perl or even non P named languages and > the "M" was not about "MySQL always". > > I also like Elixir and I think that the BEAM is a pretty awesome > technology for parallelism, as it is shown in this excellent > talk[1]. It is not the place where I'm focused as I'm more > interested in live coding and moldable tools[2a] and for that > Pharo[2] is a pretty powerful tool that change the way you think > about/with software. > > [1] GOTO 2019 • The Soul of Erlang and Elixir • Saša Jurić > https://youtu.be/JvBT4XBdoUE > [2] https://pharo.org/ > [2a] Tudor Gîrba - Moldable development > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pot9GnHFOVU > > So, going back to the exploration of web technologies, my approach > has been to leverage the knowledge and aesthetics I already have > to find a static site generator[3] (for example a Python based > one) and to create a site on it (preferably using some > pre-existing template with a good design) and also to see the > infrastructure from the point of view of an "end user" or a > community that is going to add content to such site. That is how I > went from web2py[3a] to Grav[3b] to Brea[3c], my own Pharo based > CMS (as Pharo was the language I was using to customize Grav's > markdown and YAML source files anyway). This is a story of > progressive decoupling: as the excellent and integrated web2py > became kind of over complex for the stuff we were doing/needing, > Grav allow an editing experience I thought could be friendly while > we enjoyed flat file storage, which enabled redundant storage and > editing via Fossil (but it could be Git). And because we where > working with plain files, their processing could be done in > several languages (I chose Pharo). Once Grav customization became > also over complex and after seeing that nobody was using Grav's > web ui the next step was to build an even simpler solution > combining Pharo, Pandoc and Fossil which resonated strongly with > the explorations of the Jamstack and the IndieWeb[4][4a] about > building your own tools and web presence. > > [3] https://jamstack.org/generators/ > [3a] http://web2py.com/ > [3b] https://getgrav.org/ > [3c] https://mutabit.com/repos.fossil/brea/ > [4] https://indieweb.org/ > [4a] https://mutabit.com/repos.fossil/indieweb/ > > Fiuuuhhh, Edward's sabbatical makes me talk even more that > on-topic conversations... ;-P ... Maybe I should write a blog post > instead and invite you to my IndieWeb place to keep the conversation. > > Cheers, > > Offray > > On 9/11/20 12:06 p. m., rengel wrote: >> JavaScript might be commonplace, but the exciting action is in >> functional solutions: >> i.e. Elixir (https://elixir-lang.org/) and Phoenix >> (https://phoenixframework.org/). >> Why? Because JavaScript does not teach new ways of thinking. >> Yes, I know, this is very opinionated... >> Reinhard >> >> On Sunday, November 8, 2020 at 7:10:35 PM UTC+1 off...@riseup.net >> <mailto:off...@riseup.net> wrote: >> >> Hi, >> >> Adding to the Arjan's excellent suggestion, I would recommend: >> >> * Computer, Build me an app: https://youtu.be/qqt6YxAZoOc >> * The Return of 'Write Less, Do More' by Rich Harris | >> JSCAMP 2019: https://youtu.be/BzX4aTRPzno >> >> For getting the overview you talk about, I would reemphasize >> the review of the Jamstack[1] and see and share (maybe with >> yourself using Telegram or some instant messaging app) >> several introductory videos related with Jamstack, as is my >> most effective way to train the YouTube algorithm to >> recommend me more stuff about that (I usually choose long >> talks about the subject I'm interested before going bed, so >> the algorithm refines its model to recommend me more long >> form content about it when I wake up next morning). >> >> [1] https://jamstack.org/ >> >> I have been a "coding researcher" since 2014 when I >> rediscovered Pharo and used it for my PhD, but I have also >> gladly ignored the web development since mid 90's, focusing >> my code/tech concerns elsewhere and I'm happy about that as >> it allow me to keep an eye on the web as a tech user, without >> paying its technical debt of gratuitous over complication. >> For me the web is more an "exportation format", so I write in >> agile languages/environments like Pandoc's Markdown, or Pharo >> and export for the web (or for printing). I write something >> like [2] and get something like [3] and now that the Jamstack >> is here, I see some alignment between what we are doing at >> the local community[4] and a more global movement, avoiding >> mid 90's monoliths like WordPress, Drupal, Joomla and having >> a more decoupled and personalized approach to web presence. >> Stuff like TinaCMS[5] (despite of being for React based CMS) >> are showing that non-technical users can also enjoy the >> benefits of decoupled CMS that developers are advocating for. >> >> [2] >> >> https://mutabit.com/repos.fossil/indieweb/file?name=docs/es/que-por-que.md&txt=1 >> [3] >> >> https://mutabit.com/repos.fossil/indieweb/doc/trunk/docs/es/que-por-que.html >> [4] https://mutabit.com/repos.fossil/indieweb/ >> [5] https://tinacms.org/ >> >> Also the approach of languages like ClojureScript and Elm to >> writing for the web without writing JavaScript but having the >> possibility to talk with its wider ecosystem have been >> refreshing, instead of the web as a monolingual culture (well >> trilingual: JS, HTML, CSS) of bureaucratic slow evolving >> standards that has been for nearly 20 years (I don't mind >> that much on content/HTML or presentation/CSS languages but >> is really painful in the programming/JS one). >> >> So I would say that this is a good time for someone who have >> avoided the web development to jump on it from a more >> diverse, decoupled, simplified multilingual approach, now >> that web is maturing and catching with features some of us >> thought it should have since its beginnings. The key would be >> to have such broad panoramic view of what is possible to >> avoid "upgrading to the 90's", as I have seen many local >> government institutions do when they start to teach web >> development and infrastructure. >> >> Cheers, >> >> Offray >> >> On 7/11/20 9:04 p. m., Arjan wrote: >>> I'd like to suggest looking into Svelte, a modern JavaScript >>> framework that's compiled at build time, so it has great >>> performance. >>> >>> I enjoyed this presentation: Rich Harris - Rethinking >>> reactivity >>> <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AdNJ3fydeao> (Youtube) >>> >>> And the learning materials and REPL on https://svelte.dev/ >>> are excellent. >>> On Saturday, November 7, 2020 at 1:18:49 PM UTC+1 Edward K. >>> Ream wrote: >>> >>> It's becoming clearer what I'll be studying and >>> exploring during the sabbatical. >>> >>> For the last 25+ years I've pretty much ignored web >>> development. That surely was a mistake. There is a ton >>> of interesting technology out there. >>> >>> My initial focus will be on node.js packages, and the >>> frameworks and technologies connect to them. I first >>> went down this rabbit hole by looking at the yarn.lock >>> file for the jupyterlab project. This file contains all >>> the node.js package dependencies. I then googled some >>> dependencies and took a look at the packages. >>> >>> The package-lock.json file shows package dependencies >>> for the leovue and leointeg projects. >>> >>> I then thought to google something like "most popular >>> node.js packages", which unlocked 25+ years of >>> programming effort. "Attached" to popular node.js >>> packages are major projects/frameworks such as >>> jupyterlab, react, angular, ruby on rails, vue.js, etc. etc. >>> >>> Many of these technologies can be used to build web >>> sites. I'll build a vanilla site for Rebecca using >>> WordPress and woocommerce. Ditto for my son James. After >>> that, I may play around with various frameworks and >>> website builders. >>> >>> My plan will be to get an overview of the web world >>> first, and then see where this overview takes me. >>> >>> All comments and suggestions welcome. >>> >>> Edward >>> >>> -- >>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the >>> Google Groups "leo-editor" group. >>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails >>> from it, send an email to leo-editor+...@googlegroups.com. >>> To view this discussion on the web visit >>> >>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/leo-editor/dd3626f5-de2c-4a8e-92a4-3b739b9701d5n%40googlegroups.com >>> >>> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/leo-editor/dd3626f5-de2c-4a8e-92a4-3b739b9701d5n%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer>. >> >> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the >> Google Groups "leo-editor" group. >> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, >> send an email to leo-editor+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com >> <mailto:leo-editor+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com>. >> To view this discussion on the web visit >> >> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/leo-editor/3a737ba4-f0da-4cde-97ca-ace5354e1a37n%40googlegroups.com >> >> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/leo-editor/3a737ba4-f0da-4cde-97ca-ace5354e1a37n%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer>. > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google > Groups "leo-editor" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, > send an email to leo-editor+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com > <mailto:leo-editor+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com>. > To view this discussion on the web visit > > https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/leo-editor/d7693702-cbd8-ddd4-7475-0fc143e0ccde%40riseup.net > > <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/leo-editor/d7693702-cbd8-ddd4-7475-0fc143e0ccde%40riseup.net?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer>. > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google > Groups "leo-editor" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send > an email to leo-editor+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com > <mailto:leo-editor+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com>. > To view this discussion on the web visit > https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/leo-editor/CAAa_k2fM3dcjsTVWm3J4L5FGnFpkb-_aALZ6Pa8PrDJ9FQSvWA%40mail.gmail.com > <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/leo-editor/CAAa_k2fM3dcjsTVWm3J4L5FGnFpkb-_aALZ6Pa8PrDJ9FQSvWA%40mail.gmail.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer>. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "leo-editor" group. 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