Hey y'all, *Simon* - I'm totally with you that Twitter's been leaps and bounds ahead of other companies in this space in terms of policy and transparency (and said as much to the NYT<http://mediadecoder.blogs.nytimes.com/2012/07/31/twitter-gets-a-backlash-of-its-own-over-adams-suspension/>yesterday). And I know I'm arguing in black and white - ultimately, though, Twitter either needs to remove that sentence in their Rules or do better due diligence on reports like these. And I still think an appeals system is needed - not everyone is as high profile as Guy Adams...for example, the "curation rotation" account for Singapore went down for *more than a week* recently because of an erroneous or malicious spam report.
*Bernard* - I get where you're coming from, I just do truly believe (and perhaps because I know and trust a lot of their staff) that Twitter is "different." Their track record has been pretty great too - standing up for users in court, etc. (see: https://www.eff.org/pages/who-has-your-back/) *Surely arguing against unfair Ts & Cs is something the Internet community should be doing?* Absolutely, but I don't think that's a legal question. Have you read Rebecca MacKinnon's excellent work on this question? If not, I think you'd find it interesting. I tend to agree with her POV on this. Best, Jillian On Wed, Aug 1, 2012 at 12:45 AM, Bernard Tyers - ei8fdb <ei8...@ei8fdb.org>wrote: > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- > Hash: SHA1 > > Jillian, > > Maybe I was hasty in my commentary, but I have spent time reading so many > "we're sorry" statements by companies that I've become slightly jaded. > Blame South Park :) I also find it very difficult that NBC "didn't > initially understand the repercussions of our complaint, but now that we > do, we have rescinded it." [1] > > Surely arguing against unfair Ts & Cs is something the Internet community > should be doing? Particularly when it seems the whole US population > watching the Olympics seemed to be complaining also. [2] [3] [4] Curiously > I had a link to a Reuters article yesterday about how US TV watchers were > using VPN services (TunnelBear for example) to watch BBC coverage of the > games as they were being provided with terrible coverage via NBC. The link > now seems to be a 404. [5] > > The fact that NBC were delaying the video feeds and requiring people to > purchase online subscriptions to watch live video is perfectly acceptable. > It's their business decision. I think it's pretty lame, but they're a > for-profit business and can do what they like (within reason). Again people > should complain and argue against it. > > As Simon Phipps mentioned (as is reported) Twitter alerted NBC to the > message by Adams and showed them how to complain, without contacting the > originator of the offending message. Surely that's against their Ts & Cs? > The user messes up (or not in this case) and is punished. The service > provider messes up, and nothing happens? [6] > > Lina: A US based lawyer commented to me yesterday that NBC and Comcast are > subject federal oversight (I don't know the legal definition of > "oversight") in the USA. Which would presumably means that the "government" > can assert some control/influence on them, and that the public would be > entitled to contact the corporations employees. I think I will leave the > legal interpretation to the lawyers. It would be interesting to hear what > the legal status of this is. > > > Bernard > > [1]: > http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/07/31/net-us-twitter-nbc-journalist-idINBRE86U1EZ20120731 > [2]: > http://storify.com/btballenger/nbcfail-x-ways-nbc-blew-olympics-coverage > [3]: > http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/nbcfail-backlash-as-twitter-locks-out-reporter-guy-adams-7987906.html > [4]: > http://lifehacker.com/5930437/how-an-american-can-stream-the-bbcs-official-olympics-coverage-and-overcome-nbcfail > [5]: > http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/07/31/net-us-olympics-tech-workaround-idUSBRE86U02R20120731 > [6]: > http://www.telegraph.co.uk/technology/twitter/9440137/London-Olympics-2012-Twitter-alerted-NBC-to-British-journalists-critical-tweets.html > > > On 31 Jul 2012, at 22:22, Lina Srivastava wrote: > > > Not in defense of Twitter's underlying decision, but in the case of the > apology, I wouldn't say this is usual BS language. This is Twitter's GC, > not the PR department, stating their policy and an explanation in response > to this particular situation. They handled at least the apology and > explanation correctly. And as Jillian said, as a private corporation, they > are well within their legal rights to suspend any user they want, or draft > any kind of usage policy they want, as long as that policy isn't itself > illegal (eg. discriminatory, etc.) That they screwed up in terms of the > user relationships, and in the larger sense of how you craft these policies > today, is fairly obvious-- and hopefully they'll listen to Jillian re: > appeals processes. > > > > About the question of whether an email address per se is confidential, > it all depends. Email addresses may constitute personally identifiable > information, but I don't know if that applies to corporate email addresses, > because I guess you could make a case that's part of the public record > and/or it's routine business information-- and there are different > standards about personally identifiable information depending on the state, > agency, or jurisdiction. So I don't know the answer to that without > researching the case law. Anyone else? > > > > > > On Tue, Jul 31, 2012 at 4:46 PM, Jillian C. York <jilliancy...@gmail.com> > wrote: > > Bernard, > > > > 1. Not reading a post and then pontificating on assumptions is pretty > lame. > > > > 2. EFF Legal is not on this, because Twitter is well within their legal > rights to suspend a user for any reason. While I think that sucks, it is, > in fact, the truth. > > > > 3. I very much hope that Twitter either rephrases their rules or starts > investigating claims such as this in the future. I also firmly believe > that they need an appeals/escalation process for situations like this. > > > > Best, > > Jillian > > > > > > On Tue, Jul 31, 2012 at 1:24 PM, Bernard Tyers - ei8fdb < > ei8...@ei8fdb.org> wrote: > > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- > > Hash: SHA1 > > > > Hi Jillian, > > > > Thanks for explaining the details. Pardon my language but...FFS. This is > disgraceful. > > > > Adams used publicly available information like this: > http://www.linkedin.com/pub/gary-zenkel/3/569/126 and Twitter closed his > account? > > > > In which case, if I were Adams, I would release my legal attack hounds, > and sue Twitter under what ever legislation they could. Anyone from the > EFF Legal want to comment? > > > > That is disgraceful. Another example of why I believe Twitters > self-censorship "internal struggle" earlier this year was an easy out for > them. > > > > I hope Adams doesn't take the usual "we're sorry" excuse thats trotted > out. > > > > Bernard > > > > On 31 Jul 2012, at 16:13, Jillian C. York wrote: > > > > > Bernard, > > > > > > Twitter's explanation was not that the statement was defamatory, but > that Adams had posted private information. The email address he posted, > however, is not private: it is available on NBC.com. That's the entire > case. > > > > > > -Jillian > > > > > > On Tue, Jul 31, 2012 at 1:39 AM, Bernard Tyers - ei8fdb < > ei8...@ei8fdb.org> wrote: > > > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- > > > Hash: SHA1 > > > > > > > > > (Slightly devil's advocate/contrarian POV) > > > > > > Interesting story, and Adams probably has a case but it never ceases > to amaze me when people disconnect their "real world" brains from their > "Internet" brains. > > > > > > I would be the first person to complain if someone's free-speech was > taken away, however, if Adams has said anything defamatory in his Twitter > stream, then he is still bound by "real world" laws. > > > > > > Just because I say something defamatory or libellous about person X on > the Internet, doesn't mean that *IF* it's found that a "real-world" legal > process cannot be executed. > > > > > > Most people using the Internet may not understand that, but I would > have expected journalists to understand it. > > > > > > Is it illegal to suspend someones services for naming an executive of > a media company for doing XYZ in the USA? I have no idea. > > > > > > If it is illegal, then people need to speak out against a ridiculously > brain-dead law. > > > > > > If it is not illegal, people need to complain to Twitter for freedom > of speech. Twitter need to rewind their equally brain-dead actions and > apologise to the guy. > > > > > > Now, if he has said nothing "illegal" on Twitter, then IMHO, fire up > the legal drones Guy. This I unfortunately have direct experience of. At > this point it becomes (certainly in parts of Europe) a case of "who's got > the bigger legal team". > > > > > > (My reasoning comes from Bruce Schneier's argument on laws specific to > "cybercrimes". To paraphrase "Prosecution can be difficult in cyberspace. > On one hand the crimes are the same.....The laws against certain practices, > complete with criminal justice infrastructure to enforce them, are already > in place....Fraud is fraud, whether it takes place over the US mail or the > Internet.") > > > > > > > > > On 31 Jul 2012, at 00:17, David Johnson wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > http://sports.yahoo.com/news/olympics--critic-of-nbc-has-twitter-account-suspended-after-network-complains.html > > > > > > > > -- > > > > David V. Johnson > > > > Web Editor > > > > Boston Review > > > > Website: http://www.bostonreview.net > > > > > > > > Twitter: > > > > http://twitter.com/BostonReview > > > > Tumblr: http://bostonreview.tumblr.com > > > > > > > > Cell: (917)903-3706 > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > liberationtech mailing list > > > > liberationtech@lists.stanford.edu > > > > > > > > Should you need to change your subscription options, please go to: > > > > > > > > https://mailman.stanford.edu/mailman/listinfo/liberationtech > > > > > > > > If you would like to receive a daily digest, click "yes" (once you > click above) next to "would you like to receive list mail batched in a > daily digest?" > > > > > > > > You will need the user name and password you receive from the list > moderator in monthly reminders. 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