Great questions, Lisa. Maybe a survey is needed. I’m thinking of asking the Selects to do a poll— maybe at SoTT.
Lynne Smith 5 Tabor Hill Road Lincoln, MA 01773 cell: 781-258-1175 ly...@smith.net > On Oct 27, 2022, at 2:26 PM, Lisa via Lincoln <lincoln@lincolntalk.org> wrote: > > Lots of assumptions being made here...wonder if anyone has been collecting > data, someone at the COA, or maybe even those that help manage town meetings > where we have a good turnout of those technically approaching senior status > perhaps? Does anyone on LincolnTalk know how many use some of the shuttles > provided by The Commons, etc.? > > 1) how many drive themselves to town meeting (daytime) and to other (daytime) > events > 2) how many would prefer to take a bus if a shuttle existed instead of > driving themselves or carpooling, certain stops along certain routes > 3) how many do not attend because transportation issues prohibit them from > attending DAYTIME events > 4) how many no longer drive at night (or avoid it) and might use a shuttle or > door to door service? > 5) how many would ONLY consider a door to door service, regardless of whether > at night or during the day? > > If this data exists specific to Lincoln (and it really MIGHT?), it would be > great to have access to it here. > > Lisa > Trapelo Road > > ------ Original Message ------ > From "Joanna Owen Schmergel via Lincoln" <lincoln@lincolntalk.org > <mailto:lincoln@lincolntalk.org>> > To "Sara Mattes" <samat...@gmail.com <mailto:samat...@gmail.com>> > Cc "Lincoln Talk" <lincoln@lincolntalk.org <mailto:lincoln@lincolntalk.org>> > Date 10/27/2022 8:07:28 AM > Subject Re: [LincolnTalk] community center > >> Those with that level of restricted mobility would get their own household >> stop. >> >> I imagine that that is a smaller percentage and that the majority of our >> seniors ambulatory enough to walk to a bus stop. >> >> >> Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone <https://overview.mail.yahoo.com/?.src=iOS> >> >> On Thursday, October 27, 2022, 8:03 AM, Sara Mattes <samat...@gmail.com >> <mailto:samat...@gmail.com>> wrote: >> >> That might be quite hard for some seniors and those with mobility issues. >> Imagine an 80 year old, using a walker, walking to and waiting at a >> collection point/ bus stop, in rain, sleet or snow. >> Such a system might keep many housebound. >> >> Sent from my iPhone >> >>> On Oct 27, 2022, at 1:54 PM, Joanna Owen Schmergel <owenjoa...@yahoo.com >>> <mailto:owenjoa...@yahoo.com>> wrote: >>> >> >>> Not go to each individual household- shuttle stops similar to school bus >>> stops >>> >>> >>> Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone <https://overview.mail.yahoo.com/?.src=iOS> >>> >>> On Thursday, October 27, 2022, 2:36 AM, Sara Mattes <samat...@gmail.com >>> <mailto:samat...@gmail.com>> wrote: >>> >>> Can we first understand the needs of seniors. >>> What activities exist, what can/should be added? >>> I would urge all to spend at least 1/2 day at Bemis to better understand >>> what is currently going on. >>> Activities and appointments are happening there the entire day that the >>> front door is open. >>> Look at the COA newsletter. >>> It appears in EVERY Lincoln mailbox, monthly. >>> >>> Many of these ideas are very interesting and deserve further exploration. >>> I am not sure that we can have a private tai service/shuttle bus to go to >>> each individual household that needs transport. >>> But, maybe that’s feasible. >>> >>> But, before we explore further, , let us understand what are our needs and >>> where do places exist that might serve them. >>> >>> Sara Mattes >>> 71 Conant >>> (Per Lynne Smith’s request that we attach name and address to each post) >>> >>> >>> >>> ------ >>> Sara Mattes >>> >>> >>> >>> >>>> On Oct 26, 2022, at 7:49 PM, Joanna Owen Schmergel via Lincoln >>>> <lincoln@lincolntalk.org <mailto:lincoln@lincolntalk.org>> wrote: >>>> >>>> $200k sounds roughly accurate. >>>> >>>> I personally like the idea of a town shuttle that would perhaps make the >>>> “rounds” 3-4 times a day on a schedule to Donelean’s, Bemis, Town Hall, >>>> the School/pods, the library, etc… >>>> >>>> Then activities for seniors would start being planned around the shuttle >>>> schedule.. >>>> >>>> >>>> Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone <https://overview.mail.yahoo.com/?.src=iOS> >>>> >>>> On Wednesday, October 26, 2022, 7:30 PM, Lynne Smith <ly...@smith.net >>>> <mailto:ly...@smith.net>> wrote: >>>> >>>> Can someone estimate the cost of a full time driver (9-5) and an all- >>>> electric car or shuttle bus? eg., Salary plus benefits: $100k; ev shuttle: >>>> $100k. So $200K total? Or we could use Uber vouchers as some senior living >>>> facilities do. >>>> >>>> Just another way of solving parking and driving problems. >>>> >>>> Lynne Smith >>>> 5 Tabor Hill Road >>>> Lincoln, MA 01773 >>>> 781-258-1175 >>>> Sent from my iPhone >>>> >>>>> On 26 Oct 2022, at 7:02 p.m., Joanna Owen Schmergel via Lincoln >>>>> <lincoln@lincolntalk.org <mailto:lincoln@lincolntalk.org>> wrote: >>>>> >>>>> Well said! >>>>> >>>>> And for significantly less money we can invest in a contract for a >>>>> shuttle bus to provide transportation to all of these locations:) >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone >>>>> <https://overview.mail.yahoo.com/?.src=iOS> >>>>> >>>>> On Wednesday, October 26, 2022, 6:53 PM, Karla Gravis >>>>> <karlagra...@gmail.com <mailto:karlagra...@gmail.com>> wrote: >>>>> >>>>> Thanks everyone for the thoughtful discussion. >>>>> >>>>> Andy, I think Seth's post is only talking about the cost of renovating >>>>> one pod, the pod allocated to LEAP in the new CC designs. There is simply >>>>> no need to renovate all three pods. Right now they are in fact >>>>> underutilized. My understanding is that they are used for the following >>>>> activities: >>>>> LEAP. >>>>> Summer Camp. >>>>> Parks and Rec activities taking place after school (the vast majority). >>>>> A few Parks and Rec activities happening during school hours. >>>>> As and office for all three (3) PRD employees. >>>>> #1,2 and 3 could be hosted in the school as they do not overlap with >>>>> school hours. It would be duplicative to renovate the Pods when we have a >>>>> perfectly fine school right next to it. #5 requires very little space and >>>>> could be done either at the school or Town Offices, which only leaves #4 >>>>> uncovered. An entire pod is probably much more space than we actually >>>>> need for #4, so the $1.6MM figure is probably an overstatement. >>>>> >>>>> I still have not heard any CC proponent respond to Joanna and Yonca's >>>>> eloquent pleas. What will it accomplish that cannot be done with the >>>>> existing resources? >>>>> >>>>> As the initial post explained, towns our size simply do not build >>>>> Community Centers. There are many ways to foster intergenerational >>>>> commingling, which to be clear is a worthwhile goal, but building very >>>>> expensive empty rooms is not one of them. Intergenerational commingling >>>>> happens when there is a common purpose that brings everyone together, not >>>>> as a result of a new building. We already have facilities where those >>>>> activities can be done if people are willing to organize them. If people >>>>> want to host a book club, they can use the library with the help of our >>>>> amazing librarians, if they want to play sports, they can use Reed Gym, >>>>> if they want to put on a play or have a town debate they can use the >>>>> Donaldson Auditorium. >>>>> >>>>> Our town already has the most onerous property taxes in the region. >>>>> Elevated property taxes are causing financial hardship, which is why the >>>>> town approved the senior circuit breaker. Let us try to keep that in mind >>>>> when we are talking about a project that would increase property taxes >>>>> thousands of dollars a year. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> From: Andy Wang <andyrw...@gmail.com <mailto:andyrw...@gmail.com>> >>>>> Date: Wed, Oct 26, 2022 at 2:18 PM >>>>> Subject: Re: [LincolnTalk] community center >>>>> To: Seth Rosen <rosen...@gmail.com <mailto:rosen...@gmail.com>> >>>>> Cc: Lincoln Talk <lincoln@lincolntalk.org >>>>> <mailto:lincoln@lincolntalk.org>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Seth, >>>>> >>>>> Just to be fair in the comparison, according to the presentation in the >>>>> Spring (reference here >>>>> <http://lincolntown.org/DocumentCenter/View/72451/Community-Center-2022-Town-Meeting-Article-12>), >>>>> the cost of renovation of the 3 pods from the CCPPDC report was >>>>> originally estimated at $3-3.9 Million. Updated in 2021 to $3.8 - $5.3M >>>>> and projected to 2025 Projected Construction Mid-Point at $4.5-6.1 M. >>>>> Which is more like 20-26% on the low end. >>>>> >>>>> Also, several people have made this sound like it's just for CoA. As >>>>> proposed, this is supposed to be a 'Community Center' not just a 'Senior >>>>> Center'. So while you might consider the discussion of PRD with this as >>>>> a conflation, others may not. It may be an opportunity to use what I >>>>> think are two under-utilized resources (the pods and Bemis) into one with >>>>> more use. At the same time, co-mingling diverse generational residents >>>>> has shown to have a positive effect on all involved. There may be other >>>>> intangible benefits for a Community Center, you can't look at everything >>>>> from a financial side only (though, you can't ignore it either). >>>>> >>>>> In terms of renovation, I think Bemis and Pierce House, while lovely, are >>>>> not ideal sites for either the CoA or a Community Center due to access, >>>>> parking, physical layout of the spaces. Pierce House is historic and I >>>>> doubt a large renovation would fly there. Bemis lacks parking and it >>>>> doesn't appear like there is much room for expansion. The pods really do >>>>> need a renovation, if you've been in them, that should be pretty obvious. >>>>> >>>>> I did go to a bunch of the Community Center discussions years ago and put >>>>> my little blue dot on choices, but those were all about features and >>>>> things you would love to have in a building. There is a financial >>>>> reality that wasn't really discussed at the time (to my recollection, and >>>>> at least not concretely). So, in general, I am in support of a combined >>>>> community center to house CoA and PNR on the school campus, but at the >>>>> current scale, I'm undecided. >>>>> >>>>> I'll air my issue with where we are in the movie though. The vote at the >>>>> end of Nov to allocate $325k for professional services is really looking >>>>> to provide detailed breakdown of two very similar proposals. The 'Infill >>>>> of Pods' and the "Secondary Central Green' are estimated at $23-$24M and >>>>> $24.3 - $25.4M (2025 Midpoint Construction #'s) respectively. I'm sure >>>>> lots of folks may prefer one or the other for a variety of design >>>>> reasons, but from a financial standpoint, they are about the same cost. >>>>> Both are lovely buildings, but my concern is that neither may pass the >>>>> larger town vote. I would have rather seen two separate proposals for a >>>>> community center, one at the $12M range and one at the $24M range. >>>>> Actual cost just as an example. >>>>> >>>>> It's clear the next steps that happen if the vote passes. What happens >>>>> if the vote fails to pass? Does that remove the possibility of having a >>>>> community center or does that just put things back to the committee to >>>>> come back again? From my perspective, I'd much prefer a community center >>>>> on a smaller scale, but also, I'd rather have one at the current proposal >>>>> and be forced to pay, than not have one. I'm just not sure which way to >>>>> vote in that case. >>>>> >>>>> Andy >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> On Wed, Oct 26, 2022 at 11:47 AM Seth Rosen <rosen...@gmail.com >>>>> <mailto:rosen...@gmail.com>> wrote: >>>>> Since some posters have mentioned it, we thought it would be helpful to >>>>> zero into how the Pods factor into the Community Center project and what >>>>> we think is the most rational path for the activities there. >>>>> >>>>> Neither of the existing currently proposed designs contemplates a new >>>>> home for LEAP, although I do agree with Diana that there are definitely >>>>> capital needs there. >>>>> >>>>> There are three pods. In both designs POD B would be LIGHTLY renovated >>>>> and stay as a standalone facility to host LEAP. In one of the designs the >>>>> two other pods would be torn down and in the other design they would be >>>>> incorporated into the Community Center. >>>>> >>>>> The cost of renovating the LEAP pod was estimated at $1.125MM in 2018, >>>>> using the same cost inflator used for the overall project, the updated >>>>> cost would be approximately $1.6MM, which corresponds to 6% of the total >>>>> Community Center project cost. >>>>> >>>>> We argue that the town has other public space to host the activities >>>>> hosted in the Pods today, if at some point in the future they are not >>>>> deemed further usable. LEAP as well as all of the after-hours Parks and >>>>> Rec school-age-activities, which represent the vast majority of the >>>>> program's indoor offerings, could easily be hosted in what is otherwise a >>>>> brand-new empty school. There is already a precedent of a Parks & >>>>> Recreation activity, namely IMLEM, using the school, specifically the 8th >>>>> grade hub, to conduct its activities. We are sure other adult activities >>>>> could also find accomodation. Adult basketball for example is already >>>>> hosted at Reed Gym. >>>>> >>>>> As it relates to Parks and Rec Department (PRD), there is no urgency in >>>>> finding the Department a new home. Once that happens, as anyone who has >>>>> stepped foot into that office can attest, they only need a small fraction >>>>> of their current space to house three employees. We are certain either >>>>> the school or the 15,000 sqft Town offices could find space for them. >>>>> >>>>> Let us not conflate a discussion about the future of PRD and LEAP, which >>>>> can be easily fixed at no incremental or a small cost, with a $25MM >>>>> project with no other apparent incremental goal other than hosting COA. >>>>> >>>>>> On Oct 26, 2022, at 9:15 AM, DJCP <djcp0...@gmail.com >>>>>> <mailto:djcp0...@gmail.com>> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> My kids go to LEAP, the after school program, and we frequently use the >>>>>> Pods for community events and rec dept programs and generally hanging >>>>>> around after school and the Pods are in tough shape. Much like the >>>>>> school building was before the renovation. I am sensitive to costs, but >>>>>> significant overhaul of the Pods is needed in the imminent future. >>>>>> Costs are only going to go up if we put the project off. And I like the >>>>>> idea of rolling the senior center into the school campus as it would be >>>>>> nice to have the communities intersect more. (The Girl Scouts in >>>>>> particular already do service projects for the COA&HS and it would be >>>>>> great to expand that.) Again, I am sensitive to cost, not just for me >>>>>> but the community, but I hope everyone can keep an open mind. >>>>>> >>>>>> Diana >>>>>> Giles Rd >>>>>> >>>>>> On Wed, Oct 26, 2022 at 8:27 AM Louis Zipes <louiszi...@gmail.com >>>>>> <mailto:louiszi...@gmail.com>> wrote: >>>>>> Maybe I missed it and I could be very wrong it but I think part of this >>>>>> project also takes into account the Hartwell Pods/Bemis Hall and the >>>>>> cost to sustain those/replace them going forward. That might or might >>>>>> not factor into the overall cost and design we are seeing. >>>>>> >>>>>> There have been community center meetings so I think I personally need >>>>>> to go back and watch them to be better educated. >>>>>> >>>>>> https://www.lincolntown.org/1019/Community-Center-FAQs >>>>>> <https://www.lincolntown.org/1019/Community-Center-FAQs> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> On Wednesday, October 26, 2022, Joanna Owen Schmergel via Lincoln >>>>>> <lincoln@lincolntalk.org <mailto:lincoln@lincolntalk.org>> wrote: >>>>>> What about the cost for ages 65 to 79? >>>>>> >>>>>> I do think low cost access to indoor year-round swimming is important >>>>>> for our older population. >>>>>> >>>>>> Many might find $199 a year to be a lot. >>>>>> >>>>>> If there is some kind of access to certain facilities at Hanscom for >>>>>> seniors that would be very good information to have. Hanscom has >>>>>> fantastic health & fitness facilities. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone >>>>>> <https://overview.mail.yahoo.com/?.src=iOS> >>>>>> >>>>>> On Wednesday, October 26, 2022, 7:55 AM, Maureen At Beede >>>>>> <maureensbeedeem...@gmail.com <mailto:maureensbeedeem...@gmail.com>> >>>>>> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> Lots of Lincoln seniors use beede center in concord. Full access for >>>>>> $199/year if over 80. >>>>>> >>>>>> On Wed, Oct 26, 2022 at 7:52 AM Joanna Owen Schmergel via Lincoln >>>>>> <lincoln@lincolntalk.org <mailto:lincoln@lincolntalk.org>> wrote: >>>>>> Just out of curiosity, I wonder if our Lincoln seniors could ever be >>>>>> granted certain access to any of the phenomenal health and fitness >>>>>> facilities at Hanscom? >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone >>>>>> <https://overview.mail.yahoo.com/?.src=iOS> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> On Wednesday, October 26, 2022, 7:41 AM, Elaine Hawkes >>>>>> <elainehaw...@gmail.com <mailto:elainehaw...@gmail.com>> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> Thank you Seth and others for bringing up the community center. It’s >>>>>> something I have been discussing with other youngish seniors (LSRHS >>>>>> class of 1971)and have a number of concerns. Although I don’t yet use >>>>>> the senior senior, and do think one with an elevator is important, I’m >>>>>> not sure how many older adults in town use it regularly. In my cohort, >>>>>> there is a greater worry about high property taxes and whether we can >>>>>> afford to continue to pay them if a community center is built. >>>>>> >>>>>> “If you build it they will come” >>>>>> (https://www.lincolntown.org/documentcenter/view/35385 >>>>>> <https://www.lincolntown.org/documentcenter/view/35385>) Is this true, >>>>>> particularly with ongoing concerns about covid and availability of >>>>>> classes and meetings on Zoom? >>>>>> >>>>>> There are few offerings for adults through the Rec Department. Is that >>>>>> from lack of space or lack of interest? Most people I know go out of >>>>>> town for programs. >>>>>> >>>>>> I’m not happy with the design which appears to have a lot of wasted >>>>>> space in its “open concept”. With heating prices going up, how much will >>>>>> it cost to heat this big building? >>>>>> >>>>>> I also think the world has changed since 2017 when this community center >>>>>> was first discussed. I would rather the town spend its money on mixed >>>>>> income housing, for example, which it needs. And, Lincoln’s older >>>>>> homebound adults could stay in their homes if they had more services >>>>>> paid for by the town. This would be a good use of money for seniors. >>>>>> >>>>>> Lastly, if an expensive community center must be built, can we at the >>>>>> same time look at allowing more Lincoln homes to build accessory >>>>>> apartments and backyard cottages? This would help seniors pay their >>>>>> higher taxes, and stay in their large homes while benefiting non-high >>>>>> income folks looking for Lincoln housing. >>>>>> >>>>>> Elaine >>>>>> -- >>>>>> The LincolnTalk mailing list. >>>>>> To post, send mail to Lincoln@lincolntalk.org. >>>>>> <mailto:Lincoln@lincolntalk.org.> >>>>>> Search the archives at http://lincoln.2330058.n4.nabble.com/ >>>>>> <http://lincoln.2330058.n4.nabble.com/>. >>>>>> Browse the archives at >>>>>> https://pairlist9.pair.net/mailman/private/lincoln/ >>>>>> <https://pairlist9.pair.net/mailman/private/lincoln/>. >>>>>> Change your subscription settings at >>>>>> https://pairlist9.pair.net/mailman/listinfo/lincoln >>>>>> <https://pairlist9.pair.net/mailman/listinfo/lincoln>. >>>>>> >>>>>> -- >>>>>> The LincolnTalk mailing list. >>>>>> To post, send mail to Lincoln@lincolntalk.org >>>>>> <mailto:Lincoln@lincolntalk.org>. >>>>>> Search the archives at http://lincoln.2330058.n4.nabble.com/ >>>>>> 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