Can someone estimate the cost of a full time driver (9-5) and an all- electric car or shuttle bus? eg., Salary plus benefits: $100k; ev shuttle: $100k. So $200K total? Or we could use Uber vouchers as some senior living facilities do.
Just another way of solving parking and driving problems. Lynne Smith 5 Tabor Hill Road Lincoln, MA 01773 781-258-1175 Sent from my iPhone > On 26 Oct 2022, at 7:02 p.m., Joanna Owen Schmergel via Lincoln > <lincoln@lincolntalk.org> wrote: > > Well said! > > And for significantly less money we can invest in a contract for a shuttle > bus to provide transportation to all of these locations:) > > > Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone > > On Wednesday, October 26, 2022, 6:53 PM, Karla Gravis <karlagra...@gmail.com> > wrote: > > Thanks everyone for the thoughtful discussion. > > Andy, I think Seth's post is only talking about the cost of renovating one > pod, the pod allocated to LEAP in the new CC designs. There is simply no need > to renovate all three pods. Right now they are in fact underutilized. My > understanding is that they are used for the following activities: > LEAP. > Summer Camp. > Parks and Rec activities taking place after school (the vast majority). > A few Parks and Rec activities happening during school hours. > As and office for all three (3) PRD employees. > #1,2 and 3 could be hosted in the school as they do not overlap with school > hours. It would be duplicative to renovate the Pods when we have a perfectly > fine school right next to it. #5 requires very little space and could be done > either at the school or Town Offices, which only leaves #4 uncovered. An > entire pod is probably much more space than we actually need for #4, so the > $1.6MM figure is probably an overstatement. > > I still have not heard any CC proponent respond to Joanna and Yonca's > eloquent pleas. What will it accomplish that cannot be done with the existing > resources? > > As the initial post explained, towns our size simply do not build Community > Centers. There are many ways to foster intergenerational commingling, which > to be clear is a worthwhile goal, but building very expensive empty rooms is > not one of them. Intergenerational commingling happens when there is a common > purpose that brings everyone together, not as a result of a new building. We > already have facilities where those activities can be done if people are > willing to organize them. If people want to host a book club, they can use > the library with the help of our amazing librarians, if they want to play > sports, they can use Reed Gym, if they want to put on a play or have a town > debate they can use the Donaldson Auditorium. > > Our town already has the most onerous property taxes in the region. Elevated > property taxes are causing financial hardship, which is why the town approved > the senior circuit breaker. Let us try to keep that in mind when we are > talking about a project that would increase property taxes thousands of > dollars a year. > > > From: Andy Wang <andyrw...@gmail.com> > Date: Wed, Oct 26, 2022 at 2:18 PM > Subject: Re: [LincolnTalk] community center > To: Seth Rosen <rosen...@gmail.com> > Cc: Lincoln Talk <lincoln@lincolntalk.org> > > > Seth, > > Just to be fair in the comparison, according to the presentation in the > Spring (reference here), the cost of renovation of the 3 pods from the CCPPDC > report was originally estimated at $3-3.9 Million. Updated in 2021 to $3.8 - > $5.3M and projected to 2025 Projected Construction Mid-Point at $4.5-6.1 M. > Which is more like 20-26% on the low end. > > Also, several people have made this sound like it's just for CoA. As > proposed, this is supposed to be a 'Community Center' not just a 'Senior > Center'. So while you might consider the discussion of PRD with this as a > conflation, others may not. It may be an opportunity to use what I think are > two under-utilized resources (the pods and Bemis) into one with more use. At > the same time, co-mingling diverse generational residents has shown to have a > positive effect on all involved. There may be other intangible benefits for > a Community Center, you can't look at everything from a financial side only > (though, you can't ignore it either). > > In terms of renovation, I think Bemis and Pierce House, while lovely, are not > ideal sites for either the CoA or a Community Center due to access, parking, > physical layout of the spaces. Pierce House is historic and I doubt a large > renovation would fly there. Bemis lacks parking and it doesn't appear like > there is much room for expansion. The pods really do need a renovation, if > you've been in them, that should be pretty obvious. > > I did go to a bunch of the Community Center discussions years ago and put my > little blue dot on choices, but those were all about features and things you > would love to have in a building. There is a financial reality that wasn't > really discussed at the time (to my recollection, and at least not > concretely). So, in general, I am in support of a combined community center > to house CoA and PNR on the school campus, but at the current scale, I'm > undecided. > > I'll air my issue with where we are in the movie though. The vote at the end > of Nov to allocate $325k for professional services is really looking to > provide detailed breakdown of two very similar proposals. The 'Infill of > Pods' and the "Secondary Central Green' are estimated at $23-$24M and $24.3 - > $25.4M (2025 Midpoint Construction #'s) respectively. I'm sure lots of folks > may prefer one or the other for a variety of design reasons, but from a > financial standpoint, they are about the same cost. Both are lovely > buildings, but my concern is that neither may pass the larger town vote. I > would have rather seen two separate proposals for a community center, one at > the $12M range and one at the $24M range. Actual cost just as an example. > > It's clear the next steps that happen if the vote passes. What happens if > the vote fails to pass? Does that remove the possibility of having a > community center or does that just put things back to the committee to come > back again? From my perspective, I'd much prefer a community center on a > smaller scale, but also, I'd rather have one at the current proposal and be > forced to pay, than not have one. I'm just not sure which way to vote in > that case. > > Andy > > > > > > On Wed, Oct 26, 2022 at 11:47 AM Seth Rosen <rosen...@gmail.com> wrote: > Since some posters have mentioned it, we thought it would be helpful to zero > into how the Pods factor into the Community Center project and what we think > is the most rational path for the activities there. > > Neither of the existing currently proposed designs contemplates a new home > for LEAP, although I do agree with Diana that there are definitely capital > needs there. > > There are three pods. In both designs POD B would be LIGHTLY renovated and > stay as a standalone facility to host LEAP. In one of the designs the two > other pods would be torn down and in the other design they would be > incorporated into the Community Center. > > The cost of renovating the LEAP pod was estimated at $1.125MM in 2018, using > the same cost inflator used for the overall project, the updated cost would > be approximately $1.6MM, which corresponds to 6% of the total Community > Center project cost. > > We argue that the town has other public space to host the activities hosted > in the Pods today, if at some point in the future they are not deemed further > usable. LEAP as well as all of the after-hours Parks and Rec > school-age-activities, which represent the vast majority of the program's > indoor offerings, could easily be hosted in what is otherwise a brand-new > empty school. There is already a precedent of a Parks & Recreation activity, > namely IMLEM, using the school, specifically the 8th grade hub, to conduct > its activities. We are sure other adult activities could also find > accomodation. Adult basketball for example is already hosted at Reed Gym. > > As it relates to Parks and Rec Department (PRD), there is no urgency in > finding the Department a new home. Once that happens, as anyone who has > stepped foot into that office can attest, they only need a small fraction of > their current space to house three employees. We are certain either the > school or the 15,000 sqft Town offices could find space for them. > > Let us not conflate a discussion about the future of PRD and LEAP, which can > be easily fixed at no incremental or a small cost, with a $25MM project with > no other apparent incremental goal other than hosting COA. > >> On Oct 26, 2022, at 9:15 AM, DJCP <djcp0...@gmail.com> wrote: >> >> >> My kids go to LEAP, the after school program, and we frequently use the Pods >> for community events and rec dept programs and generally hanging around >> after school and the Pods are in tough shape. Much like the school building >> was before the renovation. I am sensitive to costs, but significant >> overhaul of the Pods is needed in the imminent future. Costs are only going >> to go up if we put the project off. And I like the idea of rolling the >> senior center into the school campus as it would be nice to have the >> communities intersect more. (The Girl Scouts in particular already do >> service projects for the COA&HS and it would be great to expand that.) >> Again, I am sensitive to cost, not just for me but the community, but I hope >> everyone can keep an open mind. >> >> Diana >> Giles Rd >> >>> On Wed, Oct 26, 2022 at 8:27 AM Louis Zipes <louiszi...@gmail.com> wrote: >>> Maybe I missed it and I could be very wrong it but I think part of this >>> project also takes into account the Hartwell Pods/Bemis Hall and the cost >>> to sustain those/replace them going forward. That might or might not factor >>> into the overall cost and design we are seeing. >>> >>> There have been community center meetings so I think I personally need to >>> go back and watch them to be better educated. >>> >>> https://www.lincolntown.org/1019/Community-Center-FAQs >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> On Wednesday, October 26, 2022, Joanna Owen Schmergel via Lincoln >>> <lincoln@lincolntalk.org> wrote: >>> What about the cost for ages 65 to 79? >>> >>> I do think low cost access to indoor year-round swimming is important for >>> our older population. >>> >>> Many might find $199 a year to be a lot. >>> >>> If there is some kind of access to certain facilities at Hanscom for >>> seniors that would be very good information to have. Hanscom has fantastic >>> health & fitness facilities. >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone >>> >>> On Wednesday, October 26, 2022, 7:55 AM, Maureen At Beede >>> <maureensbeedeem...@gmail.com> wrote: >>> >>> Lots of Lincoln seniors use beede center in concord. Full access for >>> $199/year if over 80. >>> >>> On Wed, Oct 26, 2022 at 7:52 AM Joanna Owen Schmergel via Lincoln >>> <lincoln@lincolntalk.org> wrote: >>> Just out of curiosity, I wonder if our Lincoln seniors could ever be >>> granted certain access to any of the phenomenal health and fitness >>> facilities at Hanscom? >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone >>> >>> >>> On Wednesday, October 26, 2022, 7:41 AM, Elaine Hawkes >>> <elainehaw...@gmail.com> wrote: >>> >>> Thank you Seth and others for bringing up the community center. It’s >>> something I have been discussing with other youngish seniors (LSRHS class >>> of 1971)and have a number of concerns. Although I don’t yet use the senior >>> senior, and do think one with an elevator is important, I’m not sure how >>> many older adults in town use it regularly. In my cohort, there is a >>> greater worry about high property taxes and whether we can afford to >>> continue to pay them if a community center is built. >>> >>> “If you build it they will come” >>> (https://www.lincolntown.org/documentcenter/view/35385) Is this true, >>> particularly with ongoing concerns about covid and availability of classes >>> and meetings on Zoom? >>> >>> There are few offerings for adults through the Rec Department. Is that from >>> lack of space or lack of interest? Most people I know go out of town for >>> programs. >>> >>> I’m not happy with the design which appears to have a lot of wasted space >>> in its “open concept”. With heating prices going up, how much will it cost >>> to heat this big building? >>> >>> I also think the world has changed since 2017 when this community center >>> was first discussed. I would rather the town spend its money on mixed >>> income housing, for example, which it needs. And, Lincoln’s older homebound >>> adults could stay in their homes if they had more services paid for by the >>> town. This would be a good use of money for seniors. >>> >>> Lastly, if an expensive community center must be built, can we at the same >>> time look at allowing more Lincoln homes to build accessory apartments and >>> backyard cottages? This would help seniors pay their higher taxes, and stay >>> in their large homes while benefiting non-high income folks looking for >>> Lincoln housing. >>> >>> Elaine >>> -- >>> The LincolnTalk mailing list. >>> To post, send mail to Lincoln@lincolntalk.org. >>> Search the archives at http://lincoln.2330058.n4.nabble.com/. >>> Browse the archives at https://pairlist9.pair.net/mailman/private/lincoln/. >>> Change your subscription settings at >>> https://pairlist9.pair.net/mailman/listinfo/lincoln. >>> >>> -- >>> The LincolnTalk mailing list. >>> To post, send mail to Lincoln@lincolntalk.org. >>> Search the archives at http://lincoln.2330058.n4.nabble.com/. >>> Browse the archives at https://pairlist9.pair.net/mailman/private/lincoln/. >>> Change your subscription settings at >>> https://pairlist9.pair.net/mailman/listinfo/lincoln. >>> >>> -- >>> The LincolnTalk mailing list. >>> To post, send mail to Lincoln@lincolntalk.org. >>> Search the archives at http://lincoln.2330058.n4.nabble.com/. >>> Browse the archives at https://pairlist9.pair.net/mailman/private/lincoln/. >>> Change your subscription settings at >>> https://pairlist9.pair.net/mailman/listinfo/lincoln. >>> >>> -- >>> The LincolnTalk mailing list. >>> To post, send mail to Lincoln@lincolntalk.org. >>> Search the archives at http://lincoln.2330058.n4.nabble.com/. >>> Browse the archives at https://pairlist9.pair.net/mailman/private/lincoln/. >>> Change your subscription settings at >>> https://pairlist9.pair.net/mailman/listinfo/lincoln. >> >> > -- > The LincolnTalk mailing list. > To post, send mail to Lincoln@lincolntalk.org. > Search the archives at http://lincoln.2330058.n4.nabble.com/. > Browse the archives at https://pairlist9.pair.net/mailman/private/lincoln/. > Change your subscription settings at > https://pairlist9.pair.net/mailman/listinfo/lincoln. > > -- > The LincolnTalk mailing list. > To post, send mail to Lincoln@lincolntalk.org. > Search the archives at http://lincoln.2330058.n4.nabble.com/. > Browse the archives at https://pairlist9.pair.net/mailman/private/lincoln/. > Change your subscription settings at > https://pairlist9.pair.net/mailman/listinfo/lincoln. > > -- > The LincolnTalk mailing list. > To post, send mail to Lincoln@lincolntalk.org. > Search the archives at http://lincoln.2330058.n4.nabble.com/. > Browse the archives at https://pairlist9.pair.net/mailman/private/lincoln/. > Change your subscription settings at > https://pairlist9.pair.net/mailman/listinfo/lincoln. > > -- > The LincolnTalk mailing list. > To post, send mail to Lincoln@lincolntalk.org. > Search the archives at http://lincoln.2330058.n4.nabble.com/. > Browse the archives at https://pairlist9.pair.net/mailman/private/lincoln/. > Change your subscription settings at > https://pairlist9.pair.net/mailman/listinfo/lincoln. >
-- The LincolnTalk mailing list. To post, send mail to Lincoln@lincolntalk.org. Search the archives at http://lincoln.2330058.n4.nabble.com/. Browse the archives at https://pairlist9.pair.net/mailman/private/lincoln/. Change your subscription settings at https://pairlist9.pair.net/mailman/listinfo/lincoln.
