Linux-Advocacy Digest #507, Volume #25 Sun, 5 Mar 00 06:13:07 EST
Contents:
Re: Microsoft migrates Hotmail to W2K ("Chad Myers")
Re: My Windows 2000 experience (Matt Gaia)
Re: Microsoft migrates Hotmail to W2K (Hexdump)
Re: Why not Darwin AND Linux rather than Darwin OR Linux? (was Re: Darwin or Linux
("MJP")
Salary? ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
Re: Salary? ("The Gimme A Buck Guy")
Re: Linux business proposal, help me please !!! ("Mark Lane")
Re: My Windows 2000 experience (S S Sturrock)
Re: How does the free-OS business model work? (Donovan Rebbechi)
Re: Binary compatibility: what kind of crack are they smoking? (Greystoke)
Re: What's GNU/Linux? (Edward Rosten)
BSD & Linux ("by")
Re: BSD & Linux (Philipp Huber)
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: "Chad Myers" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: Microsoft migrates Hotmail to W2K
Date: Sun, 05 Mar 2000 05:14:40 GMT
"Hexdump" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> I'm sure that would have been a great relief to everyone on board had this
> happened during a battle.
That article was extremely vague... they talk about how the DB app got
invalid data, how the "server crashed" and how all the terminals dumped
too.
Sounds like their application took a dump (which would be expected if
it was written so poorly) and all the terminals/workstations attached,
their client app(s) failed as well.
Then they start bashing NT for no good reason. Is NT supposed to magically
fix an application that doesn't handle a div. by zero exception?
The OS does not bluescreen from a div by zero, unless that application
was somehow magically running in kernel land, which would be extremely
unlikely (do you run apps in kernel space on a un*x box?).
Sounds like the app tanked, and they're blaiming it on NT, for some
stupid reason.
Sounds like these Navy guys had something up their butts (no pun intended)
and are just looking for some reason to get rid of what the higher-ups
forced on them.
NT didn't tank, the poorly written, non-exception-error-handling app
tanked. But they like to blame it on NT. No wonder Linvocates like
these guys, they have that Linvocate style.
-Chad
------------------------------
From: Matt Gaia <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: My Windows 2000 experience
Date: Sun, 5 Mar 2000 00:28:51 -0500
: How good is Linux's multiple monitor support? Oh wait, that'd be useless,
: I guess. I mean, how much benefit does watching the kernel compile
: on two screens really provide?
Oh wait, why would you need Multi-Monitor Support on any system except for
a multimedia system. Just another proof of Windows bells and whistles
vs. Linux functionality.
*throws a right hook under the perverbial M$ belt.*
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Hexdump)
Crossposted-To: comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: Microsoft migrates Hotmail to W2K
Date: 5 Mar 2000 05:41:25 GMT
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
On Sun, 05 Mar 2000 05:14:40 GMT, Chad Myers wrote:
>
>"Hexdump" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
>news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
>
>> I'm sure that would have been a great relief to everyone on board had this
>> happened during a battle.
>
>That article was extremely vague...
I agree. The article was vague, however my comment is no less valid.
>they talk about how the DB app got
>invalid data, how the "server crashed" and how all the terminals dumped
>too.
>
>Sounds like their application took a dump (which would be expected if
>it was written so poorly) and all the terminals/workstations attached,
>their client app(s) failed as well.
>
>Then they start bashing NT for no good reason. Is NT supposed to magically
>fix an application that doesn't handle a div. by zero exception?
No, but if it was just a simple program error why didn't they just restart
their server application, assuming of course that when they stated that
the "server crashed" they weren't referring to the machine itself.
>The OS does not bluescreen from a div by zero, unless that application
>was somehow magically running in kernel land, which would be extremely
>unlikely (do you run apps in kernel space on a un*x box?).
Here is a thought though, the "Smart Ship" (?) program is supposed to
automate things, correct? Would that involve device drivers? If so, what
would happen under NT ( or Linux, just to be fair) if a device driver had
a division by zero error?
>Sounds like the app tanked, and they're blaiming it on NT, for some
>stupid reason.
>
>Sounds like these Navy guys had something up their butts (no pun intended)
>and are just looking for some reason to get rid of what the higher-ups
>forced on them.
I must say I like your choice of words here. I can't help but be amused by
your statement that NT had to be forced on them. LOL
>NT didn't tank, the poorly written, non-exception-error-handling app
>tanked. But they like to blame it on NT. No wonder Linvocates like
>these guys, they have that Linvocate style.
>
>-Chad
>
>
--
JC
------------------------------
From: "MJP" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.sys.next.advocacy,comp.sys.mac.advocacy
Subject: Re: Why not Darwin AND Linux rather than Darwin OR Linux? (was Re: Darwin or
Linux
Date: Sat, 4 Mar 2000 23:43:37 -0600
John Jensen wrote in message <89smbp$qe5$[EMAIL PROTECTED]>...
>Aaron J Reichow <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
[cut]
>The difference between that 1/10 post and today's is one of focus. In
>January I was looking at the consumer benefit of having both choices: Mac
>OS X and Linux. My subject today is why I personally find Linux to be
>more interesting.
That's because you have no ideological committments. It puts you out of
place for this newsgroup, which by nature has made an ideological
committment to a very specific agenda. From the point of view of anyone
holding such an agenda, the rest of the world becomes a blur of opinion,
easily painted with broad brushstrokes like "everyone is insisting that
Apple blah blah blah".
It's impossible to counter such statements, just as it's impossible to
substantiate them. Anyone making such statements has clearly put a bare
minimum of thought into forming solid opinions; the ideological committment
shows through too clearly.
I've decided -- at long last -- that's it's better to communicate
personally, rather than through newsgroups. Even within a group like CSNA --
an obviously brilliant selection of individuals -- very little communication
takes place. Sadly, I've seen too little personal growth and fulfillment of
potential amongst this newsgroup's denizens. The same old buzzwords provoke
the same old reactions, and it's utterly frustrating beyond belief.
Adieu, it's just too painful. Ironically, you, John, have provoked the worst
of it. I simply can't stand to watch your reasoned discussion met with
infantile insecurity and protectionism. Better to leave the child-men to
their folly than to waste time with them.
Last posting in CSNA, I promise. Let the celebration begin.
MJP
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Crossposted-To: comp.os.linux.networking,comp.os.linux.misc
Subject: Salary?
Date: Sun, 05 Mar 2000 06:27:09 GMT
Sorry if this is OT for these forums, but I really don't know where
to post a question like this... I find myself in the somewhat
embarassing position of stepping into a job as a Linux administrator
and having no idea of how much I should be asking for, in terms of
salary. Vital stats:
Experience: 4.5 years running production Linux and UnixWare servers for
my college, while a student. Paid positions, but still student work. A
about a year working for a pre-launch Internet start-up as an admin, and
working as a PC Tech for a retail chain. I make about $10/hr at all of
my jobs.
The job: Southern California; running ~20 production and development
servers for a high-profile operation; Linux x86 and Solaris SPARC
platforms. It's a well-established multinational corporation operating
well in the black.
I'll be going into this job straight out of school, and if it works out
(fingers crossed!) I'll likely be staying for a while; what they do is
what I'm all about, and it looks like a perfect match for me. BUT...
I don't want to short-change myself going in. In my (limited!)
experience, you stand a much better chance of getting what's fair if you
demand it at the onset; if you realize a year into the job that you're
not making the market's wage, it's typically a lot more difficult to get
a substantial raise, no?
So... Any suggestions as to salary? I would greatly appreciate hearing
from those who might have some insight into this. Now that Linux has
finally started to pay off (been using it since SLS was "it" and never
thought I'd see this level of penetration!) I find I don't know how much
my Linux abilities should be compensated.
Thanks!
- Robert Nichols
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.
------------------------------
From: "The Gimme A Buck Guy" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.linux.networking,comp.os.linux.misc
Subject: Re: Salary?
Date: Sun, 05 Mar 2000 06:47:38 GMT
Let's hope your future employer is not reading this newsgroup!
grin.
The Gimme A Buck Guy
www.gimmeabuck.com
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message news:89sunr$f9i$[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> Sorry if this is OT for these forums, but I really don't know where
> to post a question like this... I find myself in the somewhat
> embarassing position of stepping into a job as a Linux administrator
> and having no idea of how much I should be asking for, in terms of
> salary. Vital stats:
>
> Experience: 4.5 years running production Linux and UnixWare servers for
> my college, while a student. Paid positions, but still student work. A
> about a year working for a pre-launch Internet start-up as an admin, and
> working as a PC Tech for a retail chain. I make about $10/hr at all of
> my jobs.
>
> The job: Southern California; running ~20 production and development
> servers for a high-profile operation; Linux x86 and Solaris SPARC
> platforms. It's a well-established multinational corporation operating
> well in the black.
>
> I'll be going into this job straight out of school, and if it works out
> (fingers crossed!) I'll likely be staying for a while; what they do is
> what I'm all about, and it looks like a perfect match for me. BUT...
>
> I don't want to short-change myself going in. In my (limited!)
> experience, you stand a much better chance of getting what's fair if you
> demand it at the onset; if you realize a year into the job that you're
> not making the market's wage, it's typically a lot more difficult to get
> a substantial raise, no?
>
> So... Any suggestions as to salary? I would greatly appreciate hearing
> from those who might have some insight into this. Now that Linux has
> finally started to pay off (been using it since SLS was "it" and never
> thought I'd see this level of penetration!) I find I don't know how much
> my Linux abilities should be compensated.
>
> Thanks!
>
> - Robert Nichols
>
>
> Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
> Before you buy.
------------------------------
From: "Mark Lane" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.linux.networking
Subject: Re: Linux business proposal, help me please !!!
Date: Sun, 05 Mar 2000 07:20:11 GMT
A business proposal is basically this:
What you plan to do
How you plan to do it
How long will it take (usually broken down into segments)
How much it will cost the client or your company.
Basically you have to sell your idea as being worth spending the X amount of
dollars and Y amount of time on. You can probably download a copy of
Microsoft Project Demo to create your various work breakdown charts.
"ax" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:5oGv4.6142$[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> A software called "Business PlanPro" from PaloAlto Software Inc.
> will help you out.
>
> "peter" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> > I need some sample business/technical proposals.
> >
> > I'm doing a linux gateway project for school and along with the
> > hardware, I need a business/technical proposal. On the computer side
> > I'm fine, but I don't even know what a business/technical proposal
> > looks like. I need a sample, it doesn't have to be a "linux"
> > proposal, just a business proposal that covers something "technical" .
> >
> > I've tried searching, but found nothing helpful, so I'm hoping some of
> > you out there "in the work field" can help me out. The one thing
> > about the Linux community, is that you can always count on someone out
> > there to help out, THANKS !!!
> >
> > Even though this is very difficult, I'm glad I'm getting the
> > experience now...
> >
> > Thanks for help,
> >
> > peter
> >
> >
>
>
------------------------------
From: S S Sturrock <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: My Windows 2000 experience
Date: 5 Mar 2000 07:47:09 GMT
In comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy Chad Myers <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
: How good is Linux's multiple monitor support? Oh wait, that'd be useless,
: I guess. I mean, how much benefit does watching the kernel compile
: on two screens really provide?
Linux doesn't support multiple monitors. But X does. It's pretty good in
XFree version 4.0 as it happens.
: <grin>
: That's my below-the-belt Linux punch for today, since ya'll seem so eager
: with your unfounded below-the-belt Windows punches =)
I don't understand? You asked how good the support was, I answered that it
works well. Linux itself doesn't need to support multiple monitors since
it is just a kernel but X can and does.
Here's a question? How good is the compiler that comes with Windows? I
have access to many languages on a vanilla install of Linux. I started
using Linux because I am a programmer and I wanted to be able to write
programs at home that would work on my SPARCstation at work. It strikes me
that the vast majority of users of Windows are just people who want to
install apps other people have written. The reason free UNIX is catching
on is that it is a real learning environment. If computing in general has
lost anything in the last twenty years it is the ability of most users to
be able to write a program. When I bought my first computer in 1980 it
came with nothing, no apps, nada. Just a programming manual. Linux is an
outgrowth of everything that was good about computing in the early 80's,
advanced and ready for the start of a new century. Windows is more akin to
the Atari 2600 which is useless unless you buy programs others have written
for you.
It really isn't about Linux/BSD/UNIX versus Windows, it is about taking
control or being taken for a very expensive and unfulfilling ride.
Of course the people who can program under Windows will be eager to keep
the environment alive because they can parasitise off a large pool of
users who can't do anything for themselves. UNIX has always encouraged
independence.
--
Dr. Shane Sturrock - http://nova.bru.ed.ac.uk/~sss
Edinburgh Biocomputing Research Unit
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Donovan Rebbechi)
Crossposted-To: gnu.misc.discuss
Subject: Re: How does the free-OS business model work?
Date: 5 Mar 2000 07:24:02 GMT
On Fri, 3 Mar 2000 21:58:47 -0800, Jim Richardson wrote:
>You can embed siag (scheme in a grid) a spreadsheet, in pw
>(pathetic writer) a wp. The Siag suite is kinda neat, you can
>embed xterms in the docs, which is kinda cute, or Netscape.
I've seen siag, though I never got the whole thing to compile.
I must say I like their slogan ( "It sucks less" )
>I am no latex maven, but I really like lyx, for building docs for
>test data. (I would like to know how to force an absolute height
>of a table cell, like you can force the width, but other than
>that, I am really happy with lyx)
The short answer is that it's hard, because TeX's typesetting engine
wants to be able to set this kind of thing.
There are two things worth trying that I can think of ( using raw latex ):
Either try using a
\begin{minipage}[t][2cm][t]{3cm}
Text
\end{minipage}
Where the cell is 2cm high and 3cm wide. The problem is that TeX mightn't
like the minipage environment within a table cell, so maybe there's
a modified type of table that will work.
Another thing to try is make a "dummy row" and use a \vspace tex command
to force vertical space into the cell.
If this doesn't help, try taking it to comp.text.tex
--
Donovan
------------------------------
From: Greystoke <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.linux.development.system,comp.os.linux.setup
Subject: Re: Binary compatibility: what kind of crack are they smoking?
Date: Sat, 4 Mar 2000 16:47:32 -0500
On Feb 25, Albert Ulmer spake the following:
: Mario Klebsch wrote:
: > >But Linux *is* only a kernel.
: > I know, that is one of its core problems. :-(
At it's basest form yes -- but the told that go with it are almost
_always_ the same. Not to mention that if this thread is still on the
binary compatibility -- any incompatibilities accross distributions is due
to the _version_ of the C library being used.
: I'm not so sure about that. Thanks to the fact that Linux is only a
: kernel, it can be used in a multitude of ways, not only PC Operating
: Systems, but mobile embedded devices as well. Try running AIX on your
: PDA...
Amen
: > >If your talking about an operating system,
: > >you should be calling it GNU/Linux, like i.e. Debian does.
: > Well, that probably would be Debian GNU/Linux, and there is RatHad,
: > SUSE, Caldera,... They all claim to be Linux, but in fact are
: > different OSes.
No! they are the same OS with some different interfaces put between the
user and the base. -- I use three distributions interchangably and as long
as I make sure they're all more or less on the level with each other
_everything_ that works on one will work with the other.
: Nonsense, they all cater the diverse needs of various users. In my view
: that's the main point about the whole open source movement: CHOICE! It
: is good to be different!
I agree here.
Cheers,
Greyson
#!/usr/bin/perl
@a=(Lbzjoftt,Inqbujfodf, Hvcsjt); $b="Lbssz Wbmm" ; $b =~ y/b-z/a-z/ ; $c = " Tif ".
@a ." hsfbu wj" ."suvft pg b qsphsbnnfs" . ":\n"; $c =~y/b-y/a-z/; print"\n\n$c ";
for($i=0; $i<@a; $i++) { $a[$i] =~ y/b-y/a-z/; if($a[$i]eq$a [-1]) {print"and $a[$i]."
; }else{ print"$a[$i], "; }}print"\n\t\t--$b\n\n";
------------------------------
From: Edward Rosten <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.linux.development.system,comp.os.linux.setup
Subject: Re: What's GNU/Linux?
Date: Sun, 05 Mar 2000 10:17:28 +0000
Christopher Browne wrote:
> Read:
>
> <a href= "http://www.fsf.org/bulletins/bull24.html#SEC8"> What Is a
> GNU/Linux System? </a> by Richard M. Stallman
>
> If the FSF had decided to create a Linux distribution, and called it
> GNU/Linux, this would have been well and fine.
>
> Unfortunately, RMS spends a whole lot of time repetitively explaining
> to people that:
>
> "We use Linux-based GNU systems today for most of our work, and we
> hope you use them too. But please don't confuse the public by using
> the name "Linux" ambiguously. Linux is the kernel, one of the
> essential major components of the system. The system as a whole is
> more or less the GNU system. Please use the term "Linux-based GNU
> system" or "GNU/Linux" when you talk about the system which is a
> combination of Linux and GNU."
>
> I think he'd accomplish more by "fighting" other battles.
>
I agree with RMS on this one. Most of what we know as 'Linux' is
actually GNU stuff. The kernel is only one bit of the OS. Calling
GNU/Linux Linux kind of takes away the recognition of the FSF. Many
people think that Linus did the whole lot (more or less), and whilts I
think that what Linus has done is fantastic, it is worth recognising
that much of it had already been done - the FSF was just looking for a
kernel.
-Ed
--
Did you know that the reason that windows steam up in cold weather is
because
of all the fish in the atmosphere?
-The Hackenthorpe Book Of Lies
------------------------------
From: "by" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
comp.unix.bsd.386bsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.freebsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.netbsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.openbsd.misc
Subject: BSD & Linux
Date: Sun, 5 Mar 2000 02:38:28 -0800
Hi,
Today I'm just wondering about various BSDs I've seen mentioned. My
company's servers run NetBSD and they run fine. Can someone explain the
difference between freebsd, netbsd, openbsd, bsd-lite ? I've also seen
4bsd and bsd4.* mentioned. What are the major variants of BSD today and
what are their differences ?
Also, how are various BSDs compared to Linux ?
Thanks.
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 05 Mar 2000 12:03:57 +0100
From: Philipp Huber <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
comp.unix.bsd.386bsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.freebsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.netbsd.misc,comp.unix.bsd.openbsd.misc
Subject: Re: BSD & Linux
by wrote:
>
> Hi,
>
> Today I'm just wondering about various BSDs I've seen mentioned. My
> company's servers run NetBSD and they run fine. Can someone explain the
> difference between freebsd, netbsd, openbsd, bsd-lite ? I've also seen
> 4bsd and bsd4.* mentioned. What are the major variants of BSD today and
> what are their differences ?
>
> Also, how are various BSDs compared to Linux ?
>
> Thanks.
long story :)
so: netbsd, openbsd and freebsd are based on bsd4.4-lite.
the goal of netbsd is to offer an os which is available to many
platforms
openbsd is a variant of netbsd and it concentrates on security
freebsd's goal is a very good os for the i386, but it's ported to alpha
as well.
there's also bsdi, which is just a commercial bsd.
linux does not contain any bsd-code, and it's under the gnu-license,
though the bsds are under the berkeley license.
Philipp
------------------------------
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