Linux-Advocacy Digest #507, Volume #31 Tue, 16 Jan 01 14:13:03 EST
Contents:
Re: The Linux Show! ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
Re: The Linux Show! ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
Re: Why Linux won't get far in Luxembourg's comapanies. (Bartek Kostrzewa)
Re: Global Configuration tool (WAS: Re: linux does NOT suck (oh yes it does) )
(The Ghost In The Machine)
Re: Help Me! The beast is taking over!!!!! (The Ghost In The Machine)
Re: Global Configuration tool (WAS: Re: linux does NOT suck (oh yes it does) )
("MH")
Re: you dumb. and lazy. ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
Re: KDE Hell (The Ghost In The Machine)
Re: Who LOVES Linux again? (Craig Kelley)
Re: More Linux woes ("Aaron R. Kulkis")
Re: Linux is crude and inconsistant. (The Ghost In The Machine)
Re: Linux is crude and inconsistant. (The Ghost In The Machine)
Re: Linux is INFERIOR to Windows (The Ghost In The Machine)
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: The Linux Show!
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Tue, 16 Jan 2001 17:15:30 GMT
On Tue, 16 Jan 2001 03:51:23 GMT, J Sloan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>
>> On Mon, 15 Jan 2001 08:23:28 GMT, J Sloan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>>
>> >What did you expect from windows?
>> >
>> >BTW I just went there with Netscape and its all good....
>> >
>> >The show link works with either mpg123 or xmms -
>>
>> You were able to view the trailers in QT4 format under Linux?
>>
>
>I have no idea what you're talking about -
That's because I caught you in a blatant lie. You can't view the movie
clips because they are QT4 format and nothing under Linux supports it,
unless they changed things in the last couple of days.
Flatfish
Why do they call it a flatfish?
Remove the ++++ to reply.
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: The Linux Show!
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Tue, 16 Jan 2001 17:22:28 GMT
On Mon, 15 Jan 2001 21:05:55 +0000, [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Matthias
Warkus) wrote:
>Care to explain whom you mean with "we" and why this is supposed to be
>"our" own film?
We=Linonuts
Our=Linonuts+OpenSource Nuts.
Nothing wrong with either group.
The reviews for the movie talk about the obvious connection to Linux.
Even the MGM web page has John Mad-dog Hall comments I believe.
Whoever that guy is, he looks like he could use a long hot bath and a
lot of soap.
I'll bet there is an entire ecosystem living in that beard?
http://www.antitrustthemovie.com/special/special.html
For details.
>mawa
Flatfish
Why do they call it a flatfish?
Remove the ++++ to reply.
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 16 Jan 2001 18:29:12 +0100
From: Bartek Kostrzewa <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Why Linux won't get far in Luxembourg's comapanies.
Aaron R. Kulkis wrote:
> Bartek Kostrzewa wrote:
>
>> [deltia]
>>
>>> Why not just squander the extra money on frivolous hardware.
>>>
>>> You could have added a rather nice RAID array to that configuration
>>> to bring the price up if that was really the problem.
>>
>> But what for?! They don't need that kind of machine! That's the whole point
>> I wanted to make, you have to buy too much, so you don't have to put so much
>> money into the state's pockets, and I find this tax system ridiculous, the
>> more money you have to invest, the less taxes you pay... rich people get
>> richer, and poor people have to pay (relatively) very high amounts in taxes.
>
>
> Then vote new people into the legislature.
>
>
>
>>>
>>>> As you see, Luxembourg's taxing logic is pretty hard to understand, you
>>>
>> have
>>
>>>> to invest tons of money into your businness, so the state can't take
>>>
>> "extra"
>>
>>>> taxes at the end of the year...
>>>
>>> So? Just spend it in hardware.
>>
>> just like I said... what the heck for?
>>
>
>
> You can't see the advantage of RAID?
Not in this case, the extra speed of mode 0 isn't needed, and mirroring
isn't needed also because the server is tape backup'ed every day. It
isn't crucial for the company to have it up 99% of the time, so the
quick recovery of mirrored raid are not worth the money... heck, if I
think about it, why do they need the server anyway? Every workstation's
document directories are on double JAZ disks (two JAZ disks with the
same content), so backup can't be the reason, files can be shared from
station to station...
hell...
>
>
>
>>> --
>>>
>>> Finding an alternative should not be like seeking out the holy grail.
>>>
>>> That is the whole damn point of capitalism.
>>> |||
>>> / | \
>>
--
Best regards,
Bartek Kostrzewa - [EMAIL PROTECTED]
<<< http://technoage.web.lu >>>
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (The Ghost In The Machine)
Crossposted-To: alt.linux.sux,alt.linux.sucks
Subject: Re: Global Configuration tool (WAS: Re: linux does NOT suck (oh yes it
does) )
Date: Tue, 16 Jan 2001 17:55:27 GMT
In comp.os.linux.advocacy, Chris Ahlstrom
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote
on Tue, 16 Jan 2001 01:59:28 GMT
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
>Kevin Marshall wrote:
>>
>> I think that some of these counter-arguments I'm reading about the GUI not
>> mattering all that much are a bit on the weak side.
>
>For scripting, GUIs are anathema.
Depends. If a system is done properly, GUIs can be very helpful,
especially if a transcript of commands is printed somewhere while
the user was clicking polygon points. (My prior employer's software
was pretty good at this.)
The resulting transcript may have problems if the polygon points
aren't understood by the user (i.e., if they were transcripted using
internal coordinates rather than something user-based, like inches
or millimeters) -- but then, that's what the GUI is good at, and one
would hope that the transcripting would in fact generate something that
at least makes some sense, so that the user can, in a pinch, edit it,
or generate it.
A very well-designed system would overlay the GUI portion over
the command portion, with no overlap (i.e., the GUI would have to
issue commands, just like the user, to get the job done).
That way, the system is more maintainable.
Of course, in some environments, a GUI is just plain pointless.
In highly graphical data, they make sense -- but if there's no
graphical data, GUIs don't make a lot of sense. One can
quibble as to whether file management should be GUI-driven or
not (if one has a lot of GIFs, JPEGs, or PNGs, it might make
sense to have thumbnails; otherwise, probably not).
[rest snipped]
--
[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- insert random misquote here
EAC code #191 5d:16h:40m actually running Linux.
>>> Make Signatures Fast! <<<
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (The Ghost In The Machine)
Subject: Re: Help Me! The beast is taking over!!!!!
Date: Tue, 16 Jan 2001 17:57:56 GMT
In comp.os.linux.advocacy, Martigan
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote
on Tue, 16 Jan 2001 01:21:41 GMT
<FmN86.62232$[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
>
>
> I can't stop it!!!! I picked up the disks and inserted them in my
>computer. After ranting and raving, cuz of hardware problems, I finally
>installed MD 7.2!!!! And it happened, I thought Windows was great, a little
>bloated, but great. I could live with a few blue screens here and there.
>But I thought my system was getting too old. I got a PIII 450 and 256 Meg
>Ram, GeForce, snd blstr. But something seemed wrong in Windows....
>
> Well after completing the install I decide to fiddle around, Open Office
>(just like Office 2k but better), Gimp (who needs Adobe!), xmms (so much for
>winamp), emacs(text editor from hell!). But the truth came out when I
>played an mpeg file! So much clearer, the sound was much better. I could
>not believe it, this had to be unreal, so I wanted to see how much this
>computer could take!
>
> I loaded three mpegs in one terminal; Gimp, open office, poker, and
>emacs on the other. AND everything was fine! A little jumpy on the mouse
>(duh! look at the stuff I was doing!) but I could hear the audio from all
>three mpegs!
>
> The only reason why I use windows now is to use the net, I have an
>unsupported ISDN and am waiting for ADSL. So...I don't mind the wait. Hell
>I even compiled my first Kernel (with help from Linux Mag and www.linux.com)
>and it worked, hell I even compiled 2.4 and it's running great!
>
> Well after I get my modem stuff done, I guess I'll just have to through
>away my Windose (dose of sh*T) and start programming for g++!
>
> I HAVE SEEN THE FUTURE!!!!! And it is Awesome!
Welcome to the fray. :-) After hearing a number of complaints
regarding Linux's inability to utilize certain hardware, have
certain software, and take over the desktop, it's nice to hear
a friendly testimonial. :-)
--
[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- who's been using Linux for years
EAC code #191 5d:16h:49m actually running Linux.
This is not a .sig.
------------------------------
From: "MH" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: alt.linux.sux
Subject: Re: Global Configuration tool (WAS: Re: linux does NOT suck (oh yes it
does) )
Date: Tue, 16 Jan 2001 13:01:39 -0500
> Try taking some C or BASIC code of some good complexity, and diagram it.
> Thoroughly. Show the assignments and calculations. You'll flee
> gratefully back to simply writing the lines of code.
Program flow, logic, and validation routines are all I ever diagram. A
simple block-oval-circle flow chart, if done before you write a single line
of code, can save you hours, if not days of senseless, circular coding,
modifications, and debugging time.
Variable assignments, calculative logic, syntax, and semantics should, with
any experience, be the least of your worries if you are fluent with your
language of choice. Anyone who sits down and just 'writes code' is either a
monster coder, or ignorant of efficacious program implementation. If the
latter, they're a chucker.
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Crossposted-To: alt.linux.sux
Subject: Re: you dumb. and lazy.
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Tue, 16 Jan 2001 18:00:03 GMT
On Tue, 16 Jan 2001 06:41:11 -0000, [EMAIL PROTECTED] () wrote:
> What exactly about a few menus and some icons did you need
> help with? Unless it's Calamus or Maya, a help system for
> a GUI application should be quite moot.
How to turn off DAE would be nice.
> Both have browsers that tie into all of the legacy
> help systems as well as whatever *hlp files may be
> present for the applications.
Having a browser that CAN use the *hlp files is of no use if the *hlp
files typically seem to say "not written yet".
> The best you can do is whine about missing *hlp files.
No. I am talking about a terrible help system and the reason why is
not important to me.
> Bear in mind that this only reflects badly on individual
> developers, not the desktop or OS. It is just as easy to
> neglect the *hlp files under WinDOS as it is under Linux.
I don't care who is to blame, it is Linux one way or the other.
Flatfish
Why do they call it a flatfish?
Remove the ++++ to reply.
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (The Ghost In The Machine)
Crossposted-To: alt.linux.sux
Subject: Re: KDE Hell
Date: Tue, 16 Jan 2001 18:16:48 GMT
In comp.os.linux.advocacy, Aaron R. Kulkis
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote
on Mon, 15 Jan 2001 17:44:19 -0500
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
>The Ghost In The Machine wrote:
>>
>> In comp.os.linux.advocacy, Aaron R. Kulkis
>> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>> wrote
>> on Sat, 13 Jan 2001 14:27:29 -0500
>> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
>> >Jim Richardson wrote:
>> >>
>> >> On Tue, 09 Jan 2001 07:20:12 GMT,
>> >> [EMAIL PROTECTED], in the persona of <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
>> >> brought forth the following words...:
>> >>
>> >> >Donovan Rebbechi wrote:
>> >> >
>> >> >> All of a sudden,
>> >> >> lots of Windows users jump on the bandwagon and say "I want to make
>> >> >> Linux an OS my grandma can use", but they don't realise that it
>> >> >> just wasn't designed for that
>> >> >
>> >> >sooo.. erm. what was linux designed for?
>> >> >
>> >> >and just to correct, as i see it, it isn't the windows users jumping on the
>> >> >bandwagon - and that's quite a strong term for linux - as it is the
>> >> >so-called linux advocates trying to force it down our throats.
>> >>
>> >> Force it how? with advocacy posts? pretty broad definition of "force" if you
>> >> ask me.
>> >> So would you say that MicroSof~1 forced windows down your throat?
>> >>
>> >> >
>> >> >then, through clenched teeth, we say -why do we want this when what we have
>> >> >works so much better for us?
>> >>
>> >> Use what you want. Read the EULA, it's interesting reading.
>> >>
>> >
>> >The Office EULA is downright scary. It basically says that when a document
>> >or spread sheet or whatever is created with an Office product, the ownership
>> >of the document (etc) is held by Microshaft, not the person sitting at the
>> >computer.
>> >
>> >For example, you are NOT allowed to view a Word document with anything
>> >other than Microsoft products....thus, doing a hex-dump of a .doc file
>> >with unix-land "od" command is a violation of the EULA.
>> >
>> >I expect Microsoft WILL attempt to enforce this provision of the EULA
>> >at some time...otherwise, why would they put it in.
>>
>> Ouch!
>>
>> Is this documented on a Website somewhere?
>
>Not that I know of...no need to. Just READ THE EULA.
OK, I'll look for the EULA when I have time. :-)
[rest snipped]
--
[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- what I should have done in the first place, I guess
EAC code #191 5d:17h:09m actually running Linux.
I'm here, you're there, and that's pretty much it.
------------------------------
From: Craig Kelley <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: alt.linux.sux
Subject: Re: Who LOVES Linux again?
Date: 16 Jan 2001 11:19:10 -0700
"Ayende Rahien" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> "Craig Kelley" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> > "Kyle Jacobs" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> >
> > > Mozilla is SO bloated, and sluggish. And looks almost as bad as the new
> > > Netscape. If not, worse.
> > >
> > > If this is the "benefit" of open source, I think it's time to give it up
> > > now.
> >
> > Use this theme:
> >
> > http://x.themes.org/php/download.phtml?object=resources.chrome.966881489
> >
> > It doesn't have all the fancy XPI stuff that other themes include.
> > It's extremely fast on my PII/400 desktop.
>
> It's quite hard to be slow on that kind of a machine, you know.
The SkyPiolot theme manages to do that (and 'Classic' is a bit faster,
but you can still tell that it is sluggish in the screen draws). The
browser itself, Gecko, is always fast at rendering HTML though.
A PII/400 isn't state-of-the-art by any means.
--
The wheel is turning but the hamster is dead.
Craig Kelley -- [EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://www.isu.edu/~kellcrai finger [EMAIL PROTECTED] for PGP block
------------------------------
From: "Aaron R. Kulkis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: alt.linux.sux
Subject: Re: More Linux woes
Date: Tue, 16 Jan 2001 13:31:45 -0500
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>
> > Under Win2k I can select either analog CD output or Digital output and
> > depending upon which one I select, the signal is transferred over one
> > of 2 little cables with berg connectors. The IDE channel is NOT used
> > for data transfer and as a result the system performance is NOT
> > impacted.
> >
> I bet, though, that under win2k your reset switch will break befire mine
> does under Linux (and mine is nearly 3 years old, AND it isn't loose).
>
> Incidentally, sorry to anyone intelligent out there. I am trolling!
>
It ain't trolling if it's true.
> --
> http://www.guild.bham.ac.uk/chess-club
--
Aaron R. Kulkis
Unix Systems Engineer
DNRC Minister of all I survey
ICQ # 3056642
H: "Having found not one single carbon monoxide leak on the entire
premises, it is my belief, and Willard concurs, that the reason
you folks feel listless and disoriented is simply because
you are lazy, stupid people"
I: Loren Petrich's 2-week stubborn refusal to respond to the
challenge to describe even one philosophical difference
between himself and the communists demonstrates that, in fact,
Loren Petrich is a COMMUNIST ***hole
J: Other knee_jerk reactionaries: billh, david casey, redc1c4,
The retarded sisters: Raunchy (rauni) and Anencephielle (Enielle),
also known as old hags who've hit the wall....
A: The wise man is mocked by fools.
B: Jet Silverman plays the fool and spews out nonsense as a
method of sidetracking discussions which are headed in a
direction that she doesn't like.
C: Jet Silverman claims to have killfiled me.
D: Jet Silverman now follows me from newgroup to newsgroup
...despite (C) above.
E: Jet is not worthy of the time to compose a response until
her behavior improves.
F: Unit_4's "Kook hunt" reminds me of "Jimmy Baker's" harangues against
adultery while concurrently committing adultery with Tammy Hahn.
G: Knackos...you're a retard.
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (The Ghost In The Machine)
Crossposted-To: alt.linux.sux
Subject: Re: Linux is crude and inconsistant.
Date: Tue, 16 Jan 2001 18:42:16 GMT
In comp.os.linux.advocacy, [EMAIL PROTECTED]
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote
on 16 Jan 2001 01:22:06 +1100
<93v12e$3vs$[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
>"Kyle Jacobs" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
>
>>Linux has no quality software.
>
>Could have fooled me. Oh well --- what *does*, then?
Windows has thousands of packages of quality software.
I won't say how *much* quality.
:-)
[.sigsnip]
--
[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- at least on Linux I can recompile it
EAC code #191 5d:18h:34m actually running Linux.
Darn. Just when this message was getting good, too.
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (The Ghost In The Machine)
Crossposted-To: alt.linux.sux
Subject: Re: Linux is crude and inconsistant.
Date: Tue, 16 Jan 2001 19:03:36 GMT
In comp.os.linux.advocacy, T. Max Devlin
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote
on Mon, 15 Jan 2001 16:32:36 GMT
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
>Said [EMAIL PROTECTED] in comp.os.linux.advocacy on Mon, 15 Jan 2001
>>On Mon, 15 Jan 2001 02:48:37 GMT, J Sloan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>>
>>>> >Linux has no quality software.
>>>
>>>If apache is not "quality software", why is it eating microsoft's
>>>lunch in web server market share?
>>
>>Because it is free, nothing else.
>
>Sorry, its used for commercial web sites. While being free obviously
>doesn't hurt in this regard, its certainly not going to be enough. If
>web sites could get something more reliable, higher performance, and
>with better capabilities by paying for it, they would, since this is how
>they make money.
Playing devil's advocate here:
What would prevent Win2k/IIS from stepping into this role?
Specifically, that is -- never mind general pronouncements of
"NT unreliability" (Win2K is based on NT technology, according
to its login screen), "crapware", or "performance sucks".
While I happen to think Linux/Apache is an excellent solution for
many websites (and farms), I for one would like to see how bad
Windows is (or how good), numerically.
(And then there's the platform issue; Apache could in theory be
compiled for Linux on an S/390. I doubt Microsoft has that option. :-)
But is there a better solution at that level, not necessarily from
Microsoft?)
>
>>>If sendmail is not "quality software", why is it the #1 mail transport
>>>agent on the internet?
>>
>>Where is that quote pulled from?
>>Prove it please?
>
>Oh, my. Are you being naive, or ignorant? Find even the slightest hint
>that this is *not* a fact, and then we'll worry about "proving" what
>every single person who would know would instantly agree with.
That's like asking someone not to prove that there's a pot of gold
at the end of a rainbow. :-)
Still, I would think a *lot* of Unix installations use sendmail.
>
>In fact, an argument can be made that Sendmail, Inc. is a monopolist, in
>this regard.
Except that they don't prevent someone from installing, say,
qmail, shutting off their service, or writing a Java emulator. :-)
[rest snipped]
--
[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- insert random misquote here
EAC code #191 5d:19h:50m actually running Linux.
Yes, uptime & wall clock aren't in synch; I don't know why.
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (The Ghost In The Machine)
Crossposted-To: alt.os.linux
Subject: Re: Linux is INFERIOR to Windows
Date: Tue, 16 Jan 2001 19:09:50 GMT
In comp.os.linux.advocacy, Richard Steiner
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote
on Tue, 16 Jan 2001 01:46:47 -0600
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
>Here in alt.os.linux,
>[EMAIL PROTECTED] (The Ghost In The Machine)
>spake unto us, saying:
>
>>I suspect that VM/CMS is still running around in some form.
>
>My employer's PROFS (er, excuse me -- "OfficeVision") setup is still
>running under VM, and we use CMS for various things as well.
Admittedly, I haven't used VM/CMS since college, but it's an interesting
idea, and it's been in Windows for some time (although never
advertised). Basically, it's a "machine within a machine"; the
386 and later processors have/had a v86 emulation mode which Windows has
been using (and Linux uses as well).
>
>>Even MVS might be used. (Heck, if the FAA can run on 30+-year-old
>>equipment, some others might be using such, too. :-) )
>
>MVS is called OS/390 now, though, isn't it?
I wouldn't know. I haven't used that since college, either. :-)
>
>We also use OS2200 on the Unisys (formerly Sperry UNIVAC) mainframes,
>which is another very stable operating system used by dozens of large
>companies worldwide.
Well, now you have me curious about OS2200. :-)
I could see an IBM S/390/Linux platform bumping up against this,
performance wise -- although I'm totally ignorant about mainframes.
(At this price point, the OS might not matter as much; presumably
the important thing is the raw hardware I/O throughput.)
>
>--
> -Rich Steiner >>>---> [EMAIL PROTECTED] >>>---> Eden Prairie, MN
> OS/2 + BeOS + Linux + Solaris + Win95 + WinNT4 + FreeBSD + DOS
> + PC/GEOS + Fusion + vMac + Executor = PC Hobbyist Heaven! :-)
> I am the terror that posts in the night...
Darkwing Geek? :-) :-) :-)
--
[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- insert random Disney show mutation here
EAC code #191 5d:19h:58m actually running Linux.
This is the best part of the message.
------------------------------
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End of Linux-Advocacy Digest
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