Linux-Advocacy Digest #646, Volume #25 Wed, 15 Mar 00 23:13:05 EST
Contents:
Re: Enemies of Linux are MS Lovers (Roger)
Re: Feature set: Kerberos, IPSec (mlw)
Re: Linux based software to US government? ("E. Robert Tisdale")
Re: Why not Darwin AND Linux rather than Darwin OR Linux? (was Re: Darwin or Linux
(Sal Denaro)
Re: which OS is best? (Roger)
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: Roger <roger@.>
Crossposted-To: alt.microsoft.sucks,alt.destroy.microsoft
Subject: Re: Enemies of Linux are MS Lovers
Date: Thu, 16 Mar 2000 03:21:11 GMT
On 14 Mar 2000 23:06:05 -0500, someone claiming to be Norman D. Megill
wrote:
>In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
>Roger <roger@.> wrote:
>>On 14 Mar 2000 04:49:58 -0500, someone claiming to be Norman D. Megill
>>wrote:
>>>Now, to be honest I do not know if you *really* have to reformat and
>>>start over - perhaps something could be recovered in Safe mode - but
>>>life is short and I have better things to do with my time than
>>>experiment with MS bugs.
>>You misspelled "bugs in the NeoMagic MagicGraph 128XD driver," since
>>it is the only driver I have ever run across / heard about with this
>>problem.
>>
>>That being the case, it is likely in the extreme that starting in Safe
>>Mode would allow you to correct this problem -- exactly as it is
>>designed to do.
>Interesting that because you've never heard of it, it therefore can't be
>an MS bug.
How so? What you have described would be a major bug if it were
generic to the OS, and would effect other video drivers as well. Have
you reliable reports that such is happening? If not, then it would me
more sense to call it a driver issue than an OS issue, unless one's
primary motive was to bash MS.
>Granted, and also granted that it could (appear to be) fixed
>in Safe Mode, how do you really know that some deeper hidden damage
>hasn't also occurred that will only show up later?
Again, should such have occurred, it would have been a function of the
driver messing things up. I have also never heard of this kind of
collateral damage occurring with the installation of a driver. So, in
answer to your question -- there is no way to KNOW absolutely that
such did not occur, but it is unlikely.
>Since you don't have
>the source code and don't know the precise nature of the bug, you cannot
>know that. I am trying to do a clean install that will hopefully last
>at least a month or more, so why should I take the risk, especially
>contrary to Gateway's advice? Windows has enough mysterious flaky
>problems as it is, so I want to eliminate as many unknowns as possible.
Reformat and reinstall is a common recommendation for a number of
organizations, for a variety of reasons, many of which have nothing to
do with it being the best / only way of resolving the issue
>In any case it is irrelevant to my procedure, because it's something I
>say NOT to do. I experienced it once, and that was enough for me to
>simply avoid it from that point forward.
Yes, let's address that procedure now, since you earlier asked what
could be eliminated:
>Instructions for reinstalling Windows 95 on Gateway Solo 2300 laptop
>--------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>Have available:
>
>Floppies:
>
>SOLO 2X/51/91
>BOOT DISKETTE
>Version 1.4
>Disk 1 or 1
>
>TELEPATH MODEM
>XJ5560 with Cellular and x2 Technology
>Installation Disk
>
>EtherDisk Version 5.3 (DOS 1.44 MB)
>EtherLink III PC Card Adapter
>Configuration and Diagnostics
>
>CDs:
>
>Microsoft Windows 95 with USB Support
>
>Multimedia Notebook System CD
>7502175
>
>Microsoft Product ID:
>nnnnn-OEM-nnnnnnn-nnnnn
>
>1. Remove modem and ethernet PCMIA cards.
>
>1a. Install CD drive in computer case.
>
>2. Connect floppy drive via cable to line printer port.
>
>3. Insert boot diskette.
>
>4. Power up computer.
Okay so far...
>5. Press F2 during bootup to invoke setup.
>
>6. Press F9. Says: Notice | Default values have been loaded [Continue].
>
>7. Press ENTER, ESC, ENTER, ENTER. Floppy boots to [MAIN MENU].
Unless you have made changes to your BIOS setup, which you don't
mention having made elsewhere, 5 6 and 7 can be eliminated altogether.
>8. Select EXIT PROGRAM, GO BACK TO DOS
>
>Note: If you are just reinstalling Windows and don't want to touch partition
>D: data, goto step 10A below now.
You have not described the issues twould cause you to need to touch
your partitions, so everything down to 10a can be eliminated as well
>9. Delete partitions. (The first 2 formats ensure labels are uppercase.)
>At A:\> type:
>
>NOTE: DUE TO BUGS IN MICROSOFT FDISK, BADLY CORRUPTED DISKS CANNOT BE
>PARTITIONED. IN THAT CASE INSTALL LINUX TEMPORARILY UP TO FDISK, AND
>USE LINUX FDISK TO REMOVE ALL PARTITIONS AND CREATE A DOS PARTITION.
>Then then MS FDISK should start working.
>
> fdisk /mbr <- if boot sector is corrupted
And since you have not mentioned that the boot sector is corrupt, this
could be skipped in any case.
> (The following 2 formats change the label to uppercase to workaround an
> FDISK bug.)
Why / how had they become lower case to begin with?
> format /q c:
> y
> AL
> format /q d:
> y
> AM
> fdisk
> 3 (Delete partition or Logical DOS Drive)
> 4 (Delete Non-DOS Partition - says: No Non-DOS Partition to delete)
If you know that there is not a non-DOS partition, why would you try
to delete it?
> ESC 3 (Delete partition or Logical DOS Drive)
> 3 (Delete Logical DOS Drive(s) in the Extended DOS Partition)
> D (What drive do you want to delete?)
> AM (Enter Volume Label?)
> Y (Are you sure (Y/N)?)
> ESC ESC 3
> 2 (Delete Extended DOS Partition)
> Y
> ESC 3 (Delete partition or Logical DOS Drive)
> 1 (Delete Primary DOS Partition)
> 1 (What primary partition do you want to delete?)
> AL (Enter Volume Label?)
> Y (Are you sure (Y/N)?)
>
>10. Create partitions.
>
> ESC 1 (Create DOS partition or Logical DOS Drive)
> 1 (Create Primary DOS Partition)
>
>Wait a few seconds (do NOT press ESC!) for:
>
> Y (Do you wish to use the maximum...?)
>
> Says:
> System will now restart
> Insert DOS system diskette in drive A:
> Press any key when ready...
>
> Press space bar (system halts and reboots)
> Select: EXIT PROGRAM, GO BACK TO DOS
>
> A:\> fdisk
> 1 (Create DOS partition or Logical DOS Drive)
> 2 (Create Extended DOS Partition)
>
>Wait a few seconds (do NOT press ESC!) for:
>
> 1859 (Enter partition size... [use default])
>
> Note: If the default number is >2047 (e.g. 2071) then
> enter 2047 here.
>
> ESC
>
>Wait a few seconds (do NOT press ESC!) for:
>
> 1859 (Enter logical drive size... [use default])
>
> Note: If the default number is >2047 (e.g. 2071) then
> enter 2047 here.
>
> ESC ESC
>
> Says:
> System will now restart
> Insert DOS system diskette in drive A:
> Press any key when ready...
>
> Press space bar (system halts and reboots)
>
> Select: EXIT PROGRAM, GO BACK TO DOS
>
> format d:
> Y (Proceed with Format (Y/N)?)
> [wait 10 min]
> ENTER (Volume label... [leave blank])
>
>10A. (Continuation point if just reinstalling Windows)
> Note: the /u is important because Windows is (more) flaky if
> there is old random background data on the disk.
Proof of the above assertion?
> format /u/c c:
>
> Y (Proceed with Format (Y/N)?)
> [wait 10 min]
> ENTER (Volume label... [leave blank])
>
>11. Install CD-ROM drivers as follows:
>
> sys c:
If you use the command format /u /s c: you can skip the sys command
here.
> CTRL+ALT+DEL
Or simply type "autoexec" at the a: prompt, since you seem to need the
batch processes.
> Select: INSTALL CD-ROM DRIVERS ON YOUR HARD DRIVE
> F1
> Press space bar (Press any key to return to the main menu.)
> Select: EXIT PROGRAM, GO BACK TO DOS
>
>12. Take out boot diskette. Put in Windows 95 CD. Press CTRL+ALT+DEL.
>At C:\> prompt:
>
> md cabs
> e:
> cd win95
> copy *.* c:\cabs
Not necessary -- Win95 installs just fine from CD.
>13. Take out Windows 95 CD. Put in Multimedia Notebook System CD.
>
> cd win95\solo2300\vxdinf
> copy *.* c:\cabs
Likely not necessary, since this will install from CD as well.
> cd \
> c:
> cd \cabs
> setup
> ENTER (...routine check... To continue, press ENTER. To quit Setup, press ESC.)
> x (Select EXit)
I would recommend the command setup /id (skips disk space check) /is
(skips Scandisk) /im (skips check for memory) /iq (skips check for
crosslinked files)
Also, load SMARTDRV first -- the install will go * much * faster...
>14. Windows 95 Setup - click on:
>
> Continue
> Yes
> Next
> Next (C:\WINDOWS)
> Next (Typical)
>
>15. Enter registration number: nnnnn-OEM-nnnnnnn-nnnnn. Then click:
>
> Next
>
>16. Enter Name and Company. Then click:
>
> Next
> Next (leave hardware boxes unchecked)
>
>[Says: Analyzing your computer... -- several minutes]
>
> Next (Install the most common components...)
> Check "No, I do not want a startup disk." Then click Next.
> Next (Start Copying Files)
> Finish
>
>17. The computer will reboot.
> [Setting up hardware...]
> [Windows 95 Setup...]
>
> Select Time Zone (Eastern).
> Close
> Cancel (Add Printer Wizard)
> OK (Window 95 Setup ... has finished...)
>
>18. The computer will reboot.
>
> Close (Welcome to Windows)
> Right-click on empty desktop area
> Properties
> Settings (Display Properties)
> Advanced Properties (Display Properties)
> Adapter (Advanced Display Properties)
> Change... (Advanced Display Properties, Adapter)
> Have Disk... (Select Device)
> e:\win95\solo2300\display (Install From Disk)
> OK (Install From Disk)
> OK in Select Device (NeoMagic MagicGraph 128XD should be the
> only one) (2nd overlaid Select Device)
> Monitor (Advanced Display Properties)
> Change... (Advanced Display Properties, Monitor)
> Select: (Select Device)
> (Standard monitor types) Laptop Display Panel (1024x768)
> OK (Select Device)
> Apply (Advanced Display Properties, Monitor)
> OK (Advanced Display Properties, Monitor)
> Move "Desktop area" control to 1024 by 768 pixels (Display Properties)
> Change "Color palette" to High Color (16 bit) (Display Properties)
> Apply (Display Properties) (WARNING: DO NOT PRESS 'CLOSE' HERE
> BECAUSE DISPLAY WILL DISAPPEAR, THE COMPUTER WILL LOCK UP
> PERMANENTLY EVEN IF YOU TRY TO REBOOT, AND YOU'LL HAVE TO
> REFORMAT DISK AND START OVER
> Yes (System Settings Change ...restart your computer now?)
This restart in unnecessary, since you have other things to configure
>19. The computer restarts.
>
> Uncheck "Show this Welcome Screen..." (Welcome to Windows)
>
> Right-click on My Computer
> Select Properties
> Device Manager (System Properties)
> Click + on "? Other devices" - should show:
> ? PCI Universal Serial Bus
> ? Unknown Device
> ? Unknown Device
> Click on top "? Unknown Device"
> Remove
> OK (Confirm Device Removal)
> Click + on "? Other devices" - should show:
> ? PCI Universal Serial Bus
> ? Unknown Device
> Click on "? Unknown Device"
> Remove
> OK (Confirm Device Removal)
> Refresh
> Next (Update Device Driver Wizard)
> Other Locations...
> e:\win95\solo2300\audio (Select Other Location)
> OK
> (says found YAMAHA OPL3-SAx Sound System)
> Finish (Update Device Driver Wizard)
> OK (Insert Disk - Please insert 'OPL3-SAx driver disk' <- ignore)
> e:\win95\solo2300\audio (Copying Files...)
> OK (Copying Files...)
> OK (Insert Disk - Please insert 'Windows 95 CD-ROM..' <- ignore)
> c:\cabs (Copying Files...)
> OK (Copying Files...)
>
> Double-click first X Cirrus Logic PD6832 Cardbus Controller
> Uncheck Disable in this hardware profile (Cirrus Logic PD6832...)
> OK (Cirrus Logic PD6832...)
> Next (Welcome to the PC Card (PCMCIA) Wizard)
> Next (PC Card (PCMCIA) Wizard)
> Finish (PC Card (PCMCIA) Wizard)
> No (Systems Settings Change)
Enabling the second controller is unnecessary -- on the reboot, it
will be enabled as a consequence of enabling the first one.
> Double-click 2nd X Cirrus Logic PD6832 Cardbus Controller
> Uncheck Disable in this hardware profile (Cirrus Logic PD6832...)
> OK (Cirrus Logic PD6832...)
> Next (Welcome to the PC Card (PCMCIA) Wizard)
> Next (PC Card (PCMCIA) Wizard)
> Finish (PC Card (PCMCIA) Wizard)
> No (Systems Settings Change)
> Double-click X PCIC or compatible Cardbus Controller
> Uncheck Disable in this hardware profile (PCIC...)
> OK (PCIC...)
> Next (Welcome to the PC Card (PCMCIA) Wizard)
> Next (PC Card (PCMCIA) Wizard)
> Finish (PC Card (PCMCIA) Wizard)
> Yes (Systems Settings Change)
> [computer powers off]
> Power on computer
I would move this to before the PC Card stuff and avoid another boot.
> Start
> Settings
> Control Panel
> Add/Remove Programs - double-click
> Install/Uninstall (Add/Remove Programs Properties)
> Install... (Add/Remove Program Properties, Install/Uninstall)
> Next (Install Program from Floppy Disk or CD-ROM)
> (Remove Multimedia Notebook System CD)
> (Insert Microsoft Windows95 CD)
> e:\other\usb\usbsupp.exe (Command line, Run Installation Program)
> Finish (Run Installation Program)
> Yes (Install Microsoft USB...? Microsoft USB Supplement (QFE))
> Yes (Agree to license - Microsoft USB Supplement (QFE))
> [runs ScanDisk]
> OK (Microsoft USB Supplement)
> [computer restarts]
>
> Right-click on My Computer
> Select Properties
> Device Manager (System Properties)
> Click + on "? Other devices" - should show:
> ? PCI Universal Serial Bus
> (Single-)click on ? PCI Universal Serial Bus
> Remove
> OK (Confirm Device Removal)
> Close (System Properties)
>
> Start
> Shutdown
And this reboot can be avoided by refreshing the DevMan.
> Select Restart the computer (Shut Down Windows)
> Yes (Shut Down Windows)
> [computer restarts]
> Next (Update Device Driver Wizard)
> Other Locations... (Update Device Driver Wizard)
> c:\windows\system (Select Other Location)
> OK (Select Other Location)
> Finish (Update Device Driver Wizard)
>
> (Remove Microsoft Windows95 CD)
> (Insert Multimedia Notebook System CD)
> Close Internet Explorer
Or hold down the shift key to bypass Autorun.
> Start
> Run
> e:\win95\solo2300\mouse\logitec\setup.exe
> OK (Run)
> Express Setup (MouseWare 95 Version 2.3 Setup)
> Restart (Installation Completed)
> [computer restarts]
> Yes (New Device)
> Next (Device Setup Wizard) <- (another set of my notes says "Cancel" here??)
> Next
> Finish
> Motion (Mouse Properties)
> Set Speed to Fast
> Check Enabled under Smart Move
> Scroller (Mouse Properties)
> Select None
> Pointers (Mouse Properties)
> Select Medium Black by Logitech under Scheme
> OK (Mouse Properties)
>
> Insert 3Com 3CXM356 Modem (or TELEPATH modem) card in top PCMIA slot
> Insert 3CMX356 Modem floppy disk
> Next (Update Device Wizard)
> Finish (Update Device Driver Wizard)
> OK (Insert Disk - 3COM 3CMX356 <- ignore)
> a: (Copying Files...)
> OK (Copying Files...)
> OK (Insert Disk - Please insert 'Windows 95 CD-ROM..' <- ignore)
> c:\cabs (Copying Files...)
> OK (Copying Files...)
> Enter area code
> OK
>
>Start
> Settings
> Control Panel
> Add/Remove Programs (double-click)
> Windows Setup
> Communications (double-click)
> Enable Dial-Up Networking
> Enable Direct Cable Connection
> OK
> OK
> OK (You must provide computer and workgroup names...)
Of course, choosing a custom setup to begin with, you can specify all
of this during the initial installation...
> In Network / Identification boxes:
> Computer name: Norm
> Workgroup: DOMAIN
> Computer Description: Windows 95
> Close
> OK (Dial-Up Networking Setup...)
>
> Remove TELEPATH MODEM (or 3CMX356 Modem) floppy disk
>
> Insert 3Com EtherLink III network card in bottom PCMIA slot
> Insert EtherDisk floppy disk
> Next (Update Device Wizard)
> Finish (Update Device Driver Wizard)
> OK (Network)
> Computer name: Norm00 (Network, Identification)
> Workgroup: domain (Network, Identification)
> Close (Network)
> a: (Copying Files, file 'elpc3r.sys' not found)
> OK (Copying Files)
> Remove EtherDisk floppy disk
> Yes (System Setting Change)
> [computer restarts]
>
> Enter name and password for network
> Enter blank for Windows password
>
>
>Start
> Shutdown
> Restart Computer
> OK
Why the restart here -- you've just restarted and not made any
changes?
>In Enter Windows Password window:
> xxxxxxx (User name)
> (leave blank) (Password)
>OK
>OK
>
>[To install LapLink]
I thought we weren't installing apps? Oh, well...
>Start
> Run
> e:\win95\laplink\setup.exe
> OK
> Next
> Next
> Yes
> Next
> Next
> Select No, I'll register later...
> Finish
If you're installing a printer here, why did you cancel out of it
earlier?
>[To install printer]
>
>Unplug floppy cable
>
>Plug in printer cable
>
>Double-click My Computer
> Printers
> Add Printer
> Next
> Next
> Select HP | HP LaserJet 4MP
> Next
> Next
> Finish (print a test page)
> Yes
>
>[To install dial-up connection]
Again, handled during install
> Control Panel -> Network: Add TCP/IP protocol to Dial-Up Adapter
>
> My Computer -> Dial-Up Networking
> (Make New Connection - create Network)
> General
> Phone number:
> Area code: nnn Telephone number: nnn-nnnn
> Country code: United States of America (1)
> [v] Use country code and area code
> Connect using:
> TelePath XJ5560 with x2 and cellular
Why go to Configure, etc. when you are not making any changes?
> Configure...
> General
> Port: COM3
> Speaker volume On
> Maximum speed 115200
> [ ] Only connect at this speed
> Connection
> Connect preferences
> Data bits: 8
> Parity: None
> Stop bits: 1
> Call preferences
> [v] Wait for dial tone before dialing
> [v] Cancel the call if not connected within [60] secs
> [ ] Disconnect a call if idle for more than [30] mins
> Port Settings...
> [v] Use FIFO buffers (requires 16550 compatible UART)
> Receive Buffer: Low(1) . . v . High(14)
> Transmit Buffer: Low(1) . . . v High(16)
> Advanced...
> [v] Use error control [v] Use flow control
> [ ] Required to connect (o) Hardware (RTS/CTS)
> [v] Compress data ( ) Software (XON/XOFF)
> Modulation type Standard
> Extra settings
> [ ] Record a log file
> Options
> Connection control
> [ ] Bring up terminal window before dialing
> [ ] Bring up terminal window after dialing
> Dial control
> [ ] Operator assisted or manual dial
> Status control
> [v] Display modem status
> Forwarding
> [ ] This phone line has Call Forwarding
> Server Types
> Type of Dial-Up Server: PPP: Windows 95, Windows NT 3.5, Internet
> Advanced options:
> [v] Log on to network
> [v] Enable software compression
> [ ] Require encrypted password
> Allowed network protocols:
> [ ] NetBEUI
> [ ] IPX/SPX Compatible
> [v] TCP/IP
> TCP/IP Settings...
> (o) Server assigned IP address
> ( ) Specify an IP address
> ( ) Server assigned name server address
> (o) Specify name server addresses
> Primary DNS: xxx.xxx.xxx.xxx
> Secondary DNS: yyy.yyy.yyy.yyy
> Primary WINS: 0.0.0.0
> Secondary WINS: 0.0.0.0
> [v] Use IP header compression
> [v] Use default gateway on remote network
> Scripting
> Script file
> File name:
> [v] Start terminal screen minimized
Well, that'll do for starters...
------------------------------
From: mlw <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Feature set: Kerberos, IPSec
Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2000 22:27:09 -0500
Jeff Hall wrote:
>
> Here are a couple quick questions. A Federal government contractor has
> mentioned that he has specified Windows 2000 because of its "free"
> support for Kerberos security and an secure ip protocol called IPSec
> (?). Two questions: Is there an open-source alternative
> that I should recommend, perhaps involving Linux? Also, are these
> truly part of the feature set of W2K that make it a compelling purchase?
>
> Thanks, Jeff
First of all, nothing in Win2k is free, so forget that argument.
Kerberos is part of most Linux distributions, so that is not an issue.
The only issue is secure sockets for IP security. You have two choices,
download the secure sockets layer (openssl) and pay some licensing, or
purchase a "licensed" encryption version of your favorite distribution.
Either way, it will cost you much less than Win2k. IMHO opinion, there
are no "compelling" reasons for purchasing Win2k. You want to run
Windows applications and play games? Buy Windows 9x, you want to run a
real server environment, run a UNIX.
--
Mohawk Software
Windows 95, Windows NT, UNIX, Linux. Applications, drivers, support.
Visit http://www.mohawksoft.com
------------------------------
From: "E. Robert Tisdale" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.linux.misc
Subject: Re: Linux based software to US government?
Date: Thu, 16 Mar 2000 03:26:58 +0000
John wrote:
> We are currently evaluating Linux (RTLinux to be more specific)
> as the operating system for our control software.
> Part of our products are sold to the US government.
> Does they accept products which are 'equipped' with Linux?
> Is there a place where I can find more info on this?
They have done and they might again.
The US Navy favors Windows NT just now
but I can only believe that they must be changing
their opinion on that decision in light of the fact that
Microsoft seems to be moving away from Windows NT
in favor of Windows 2000.
My guess is that you would have the best luck
with US government agencies that use UNIX systems.
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Sal Denaro)
Crossposted-To: comp.sys.next.advocacy,comp.sys.mac.advocacy
Subject: Re: Why not Darwin AND Linux rather than Darwin OR Linux? (was Re: Darwin or
Linux
Date: Thu, 16 Mar 2000 03:31:54 GMT
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
On Wed, 15 Mar 2000 01:13:00 GMT, JEDIDIAH <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>>Based on what? Have you seen the QT code? Do you know how portable or
>>non portable it is?
>
> Mucking about in DVD players and MPEG decoders. I've also
> mucked about in other interesting things but if I told
> you about them, I would have to kill you.
>
> Wouldn't be a great loss though.
>
QT isn't a decoder. It isn't a program for playing movies. There is
a lot more to it that that. Feel free to read Michael Paquette's post
for a more in depth analysis of what is needed to play QT movies on
Linux.
>>If you think something like QuickTime system can be abstracted from
>>the display type, sound hardware, color models and processor just
>>by writing it in c, I'm pretty sure you are way off.
>
> What multimedia code have you written or even bothered to
> look at?
It was years ago but I wrote code for converting and tweaking ADPCM
encoded sound so it could be played on dialogic 4Dx phone cards. These
were ISA based cards made in the late '80s and early '90s and have long
since been replaced with PCI cards that have tons of RAM for buffers
and much more IO.
>It's actually quite common for such things to be
> abstracted at the level of C as to shield individual coders
> from the oddities of a particular platform.
That may or may not be the case with QuickTime. Seeing that people have
used QuickTime to port Mac Apps to Windows and Apple is using QuickTime
to port the Mac toolbox to OSX, I tend to view QT as being less abstracted
than you.
Second, that is true of the CODEC, but QuickTime is not a CODEC and the
CODECs are NOT owned by Apple.
>>> I got my versions of Redhat, Corel & Suse gratis.
>>
>>So what? RedHat, Corel and SuSE _sell_ Linux just like Apple sells
>>Darwin as part of OSX.
>
> They sell it. They don't take credit for it beyond the
> little bits and bobs that they add.
Show me where Apple has taken credit for Mach or BSD.
>They don't hark on
> the fact that they freely re-release those other bits
> and bobs that they themselves got as a bit of charity.
The code in question is under the BSD license and Apple had no
obligation to release it.
Second, they have done work on it. It isn't like they just copied
the code and shipped it as darwin.
Lastly, Apple has made it pretty clear that this is to help out
their developers.
--
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Salvatore Denaro
------------------------------
From: Roger <roger@.>
Crossposted-To:
comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: which OS is best?
Date: Thu, 16 Mar 2000 03:52:33 GMT
On Wed, 15 Mar 2000 17:41:38 GMT, someone claiming to be JEDIDIAH
wrote:
Oh, boy! Story time! Gather 'round, children...
>On Thu, 16 Mar 2000 02:29:58 +1000, Christopher Smith <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>>"Bob Lyday" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
>>news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
>>> We hate them cuz they are an organized crime gang that, through
>>> an illegal monopoly, killed a bunch of superior products, set
>>> computing back 5-10 years, and then rammed their lousy,
>>> overpriced crap down our throats. Why is that "overly-biased
>>> and ignorance-founded"?
>>Uh huh.
>>Please explain which superior products they killed (and how).
> OS/2 : Forced IBM to not preload their own OS. This
> was is a matter of public trial record.
Then it should be no effort at all for you to post reputable citations
that MS somehow forbade IBM from preloading OS/2.
Here's a hint: IBM did such a preload. It didn't sell.
> Desqview/drdos : Forced OEMs into contracts that charged
> for ANY machine that was sold regardless
> of whether or not it went out with MS product.
> Public record: first DOJ consent decree against MS.
These per-processor agreements were initiated by the OEMs to simplify
accounting, and the DOJ agreed that no harm had come to the industry
because of them.
>>Please explain how they set computing back 5 - 10 years.
> They sat on their asses from 1985 to 1995 not bothering
> to fully exploit the IA32 instruction set and not
> bothering to fully deploy gui based systems.
Hmmn. I must have imagined Windows 3.1 and NT.
>>Please explain how they rammed anything down your throats.
> They conspire like Coreleone's to make it impossible to choose
> anything else. Part of it is a fundemental nature of intellectal
> monopolies. Part of it is legal manuvering specifically intended
> to prevent other companies from doing business.
>
> Undermining any other company's ability to derive a revenue stream
> from http clients while being able to fund the development of their
> own client, force bundled with the natural monopoly product they use
> to fund that development.
Not to mention the black helicopters...
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