Linux-Advocacy Digest #646, Volume #30 Mon, 4 Dec 00 12:13:03 EST
Contents:
Re: A Microsoft exodus! ("Aaron R. Kulkis")
Re: Windows 2000 sucks compared to linux ("Ayende Rahien")
Re: A Microsoft exodus! ("Aaron R. Kulkis")
Re: how come Dell makes you buy Windows with all their PC's? ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
Re: Linux is awful ("Adam Short")
Re: Linux is awful ("Adam Short")
Re: OS Sound OFF. (Bruce Scott TOK)
Re: OS Sound OFF. (Ian Pulsford)
SV: Windoze 2000 - just as shitty as ever ("Eduardo Samaniego")
Re: Linux is awful (Pete Goodwin)
Re: Anyone have to use (*GAG*) Windows on the job? (Pete Goodwin)
Re: Goodwin Acknowledges he's an idiot. (Pete Goodwin)
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: "Aaron R. Kulkis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy,comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.os.os2.advocacy,comp.unix.advocacy
Subject: Re: A Microsoft exodus!
Date: Mon, 04 Dec 2000 09:36:44 -0500
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>
> Aaron R. Kulkis writes:
>
> >> Tom Wilson writes:
>
> >>>>>>> Aaron R. Kulkis wrote:
>
> >>>>>>>> Tom Wilson wrote:
>
> >>>>>>>>> I wrote:
>
> >>>>>>>>>> Aaron R. Kulkis writes:
>
> >>>>>>>>>>>> Donovan Rebbechi writes:
>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> The movement keys are placed sensibly in vi (hjkl),
>
> >>>>>>>>>>>> Which is not intuitive. First-time vi users, if they try to do
>
> >>>>>>>>>>> Big fucking deal. NOTHING about computers is "intuitive"
>
> >>>>>>>>>> Incorrect; consider the power switch.
>
> >>>>>>>>> You'd be surprised....
> >>>>>>>>> Never underestimate the idiot factor.
>
> >>>>>>>> The power switch is NOT "intuitive"
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> Proof: put a primative tribesman in a room with electric appliances
> >>>>>>>> and tell him to start the things into operation.
>
> >>>>>>> I'm in agreement.
>
> >>>>>> You shouldn't be. His example doesn't represent proof for a power
> >>>>>> switch not being intuitive.
>
> >>>>> I'm agreeing that my choice of "idiot" was wrong.
>
> >>>> But Aaron didn't say that your choice of "idiot" was wrong.
>
> >>> He did that very thing by intimating the situation to be a question of
> >>> intuitiveness as opposed to stupidity.
>
> >> He didn't even intimate that situation. He simply repeated his claim
> >> that the power switch is not intuitive, and then tried to offer some
> >> proof for that claim.
>
> >>>>> The hypothesis, strange as it is, points it out. It's a matter of
> >>>>> experience and environment, not intellect.
>
> >>>> "Experience" is the word I used for it. Someone else chose "familiarity".
>
> >>>>> I used the word idiot because I had been trouble-shooting over
> >>>>> the phone to complete morons that evening and had a dim view of
> >>>>> humanity as a result.
>
> >>>> Someone who couldn't find the "any" key on the keyboard?
>
> >>> Worse. This was an professional moron.
> >>>
> >>> An old Novell customer who consistantly forgets his Administrator password.
> >>> He's STILL running Novell 3.12 which is good, in a way, because you can hack
> >>> into console debug mode and trick it into believing all system passwords
> >>> have time-expired. That way he can log on as Administrator and get prompted
> >>> for a new one.
> >>>
> >>> Ever tried to talk someone, who constantly interrupts and thinks he knows
> >>> everything, through hacking Novell from the debug console?
>
> >> No; I don't know anyone who hacks through Novell debug consoles.
>
> >>> I would have done it myself, but, he lives 600 miles away.
>
> >> Behind a firewall?
>
> >>>>>>> The language I used, in hindsight, was wrong.
>
> >>>>>> That doesn't justify your agreement.
>
> >>>>> How do you figure? I was agreeing that my wording was off track and
> >>>>> Aaron's post had pointed that out.
>
> >>>> Aaron's post wasn't pointing to your wording. He was simply repeating
> >>>> his claim that the power switch was not intuitive.
>
> >>> He was pointing to my wording's intent - That it was a question of
> >>> intellegence.
>
> >> Where did he do that?
> >>
> >> AK] The power switch is NOT "intuitive"
>
> >>>>>>> Read: Never underestimate the ignorance factor.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> I used "idiot" because i'ts been one of those nights...
>
> >>>>>> Go to the store. Buy a lamp. Take it home. Do you consult a manual
> >>>>>> to find out what to do with the cord? I hope not. Yet the
> >>>>>> hypothesized "primative tribesman" could have no idea what the cord
> >>>>>> is for. Does that prove that the power cord is not intuitive?
>
> >>>>> Oh for God's sake!
>
> >>>> Which presupposes the existence of God.
>
> >>> Yep, you're anal....
>
> >> An illogical conclusion.
>
> >>>>> His hypothesis was extreme, yes. However, it makes a valid point
> >>>>> regarding experience.
>
> >>>> On the contrary, it ignores the essential element of intuitive design,
> >>>> which involves experience with similar items. If someone states something
> >>>> about trees, you don't go to a desert and then proclaim the statement
> >>>> about trees to be wrong.
>
> >>> You watched a lot of Kung Fu as a kid, didn't you?
>
> >> No.
>
> >>> You sound like a fortune cookie.
>
> >> On what basis do you make that ridiculous claim?
>
> >>>>> You're bordering on anal retention, i'm afraid.
>
> >>>> How ironic.
>
> > Tholen..you really need to see a doctor.
>
> On what basis do you make that claim?
>
> > Your anus needs is currently depositing waste material
> > where your brain should be.
>
> Even more invective. But of course: where's the logical argument?
I've given it to you FIVE TIMES already, asshole.
--
Aaron R. Kulkis
Unix Systems Engineer
ICQ # 3056642
H: "Having found not one single carbon monoxide leak on the entire
premises, it is my belief, and Willard concurs, that the reason
you folks feel listless and disoriented is simply because
you are lazy, stupid people"
I: Loren Petrich's 2-week stubborn refusal to respond to the
challenge to describe even one philosophical difference
between himself and the communists demonstrates that, in fact,
Loren Petrich is a COMMUNIST ***hole
J: Other knee_jerk reactionaries: billh, david casey, redc1c4,
The retarded sisters: Raunchy (rauni) and Anencephielle (Enielle),
also known as old hags who've hit the wall....
A: The wise man is mocked by fools.
B: Jet Silverman plays the fool and spews out nonsense as a
method of sidetracking discussions which are headed in a
direction that she doesn't like.
C: Jet Silverman claims to have killfiled me.
D: Jet Silverman now follows me from newgroup to newsgroup
...despite (C) above.
E: Jet is not worthy of the time to compose a response until
her behavior improves.
F: Unit_4's "Kook hunt" reminds me of "Jimmy Baker's" harangues against
adultery while concurrently committing adultery with Tammy Hahn.
G: Knackos...you're a retard.
------------------------------
From: "Ayende Rahien" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.nt,comp.os.ms-windows,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy
Subject: Re: Windows 2000 sucks compared to linux
Date: Mon, 4 Dec 2000 16:26:21 +0200
"Ketil Z Malde" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> "Ayende Rahien" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
>
> >>> Why didn't IBM put same/higher machines to the test?
>
> >> You'll have to ask them, of course, but my guess is that [...]
>
> > IBM spent millions of dollars and several years to build a computer
> > whose only function is to play Chess.
>
> Plaing chess is research which could possibly bring insights into
> other problems - I don't see how that applies to stacking PCs.
Yes, but IBM is a company, all things considered, it's money flaw that
matters to it.
Why would it invest so much money in something that gave it nothing but very
good public relations?
> Are you claiming, or even insinuating, that IBM couldn't beat the
> current TPC-C clustered scores if they wished to? Compaq shows it
> nicely, they get almost linear scaling from 64 CPU's worth of servers,
> through 96 and up to 192.
I'm saying that if they wanted to, they can pull out the
kick-ass-super-duper-computer-from-hell and set up a record of several
billions TPC.
IIRC, they sold a computer to the DOD with something like TB of RAM & 8K+
CPUs.
I don't think that Compaq can even come to 1/10 in the next 5 years to that.
> > And "we are the #X place on the TPC records" has a great deal of
> > influence when buying databases.
>
> I doubt that. It's an incredibly synthetic benchmark, even as
> benchmarks go, and bears no relation to any real world database
> configuration.
IIRC, Orcale has offered X millions for anyone that can use the TPC
configuration in RL situations.
The catch is that to get the money, you must sign an NDA.
> > What computers were they using? Big Iron?
>
> 24-CPU box running AIX with Oracle.
See above about the DOD computer.
------------------------------
From: "Aaron R. Kulkis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy,comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.os.os2.advocacy,comp.unix.advocacy
Subject: Re: A Microsoft exodus!
Date: Mon, 04 Dec 2000 09:37:38 -0500
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>
> Aaron R. Kulkis writes:
>
> >>>>>>>> Tom Wilson writes:
>
> >>>>>>>>>> Aaron R. Kulkis writes:
>
> >>>>>>>>>>>> Donovan Rebbechi writes:
>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> The movement keys are placed sensibly in vi (hjkl),
>
> >>>>>>>>>>>> Which is not intuitive. First-time vi users, if they try to do
>
> >>>>>>>>>>> Big fucking deal. NOTHING about computers is "intuitive"
>
> >>>>>>>>>> Incorrect; consider the power switch.
>
> >>>>>>>>> You'd be surprised....
> >>>>>>>>> Never underestimate the idiot factor.
>
> >>>>>>>> We're talking about intuition, not incompetence.
>
> >>>>>>> Put an electric appliance in front of somebody who has never
> >>>>>>> used an electric appliance before, and you'll learn that there
> >>>>>>> is absolutely NOTHING intuitive about on/off switches.
>
> >>>>>> Once again, you're hypothesizing a situation that precludes
> >>>>>> intuition.
>
> >>>> Note: no response.
>
> >> Note: still no response.
>
> Note: still no response.
>
> >>>>>>> They are merely FAMILIAR, not intuitive.
>
> >>>>>> How is an electric appliance familiar to someone who has never
> >>>>>> used an electic appliance before?
>
> >>>>> PRECISELY,
>
> >>>> Precisely why your analogy fails. You're going outside the relevant
> >>>> group, namely those who use electrical appliances. Just because some
> >>>> hypothetical "primitive tribesman" won't find a power switch intuitive
> >>>> doesn't mean that nobody can find a power switch to be intuitive.
> >>>> Familiarity does not have to be universal before something can be
> >>>> intuitive to someone.
>
> >> Note: no response.
>
> > I've explained it 5 times already, you shit-head.
>
> Your so-called "explanation" consists of invective, Aaron, not a logical
> argument.
Deliberately ignoring information presented is NOT victory, shit-for-brains.
>
> >>>>> shit-head
>
> >>>> You must really be hurting for a logical argument.
>
> >>> Just commenting on your inability to comprehend a logical argument.
>
> >> What alleged inability? You're the one who hasn't comprehended my
> >> logical argument, and you've not offered any counterargument, just
> >> immature invective.
>
> > PLease get a doctor to reroute your rectum away from your cranium.
>
> Another one of your so-called "explanations". Practice what you preach,
> Aaron.
This explanation is only about why you have failed to understand
the previous explanation.
--
Aaron R. Kulkis
Unix Systems Engineer
ICQ # 3056642
H: "Having found not one single carbon monoxide leak on the entire
premises, it is my belief, and Willard concurs, that the reason
you folks feel listless and disoriented is simply because
you are lazy, stupid people"
I: Loren Petrich's 2-week stubborn refusal to respond to the
challenge to describe even one philosophical difference
between himself and the communists demonstrates that, in fact,
Loren Petrich is a COMMUNIST ***hole
J: Other knee_jerk reactionaries: billh, david casey, redc1c4,
The retarded sisters: Raunchy (rauni) and Anencephielle (Enielle),
also known as old hags who've hit the wall....
A: The wise man is mocked by fools.
B: Jet Silverman plays the fool and spews out nonsense as a
method of sidetracking discussions which are headed in a
direction that she doesn't like.
C: Jet Silverman claims to have killfiled me.
D: Jet Silverman now follows me from newgroup to newsgroup
...despite (C) above.
E: Jet is not worthy of the time to compose a response until
her behavior improves.
F: Unit_4's "Kook hunt" reminds me of "Jimmy Baker's" harangues against
adultery while concurrently committing adultery with Tammy Hahn.
G: Knackos...you're a retard.
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: how come Dell makes you buy Windows with all their PC's?
Date: Mon, 04 Dec 2000 13:45:48 GMT
On Sat, 02 Dec 2000 18:26:18 -0500, jtnews <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:
>How come Dell bundles Windows with every PC?
>Why can't I buy a machine without having to pay extra for Windows?
>Same goes for all the other manufacturers.
>
Dell has a reputation to protect. They do this by ensuring that the
combination of hardware and software they sell meets a certain
requirement. This applies to both the many versions of Windows as
well as Linux. Just as they won't supply a machine with an NT server
operating system if they don't believe that machine is suited to run
the OS, they will not supply a machine with Linux if they believe it
isn't suited to running Linux.
This also applied to optional hardware such as tape backup units.
In marketing terms:
Dell supplies solutions - a combination of hardware and software that
will meet a specified level of performance and reliability for the
desired application.
------------------------------
From: "Adam Short" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
comp.os.linux,comp.os.linux.x,comp.os.ms-windows,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy
Subject: Re: Linux is awful
Date: Mon, 04 Dec 2000 14:47:10 GMT
Cobblers. While I agree that it doesn't do any repartitioning, Windows 98SE
WILL format your hard drive if it finds no filesystem on it. If there is one
there already I agree that it won't, but that wasn't what I was saying.
Adam
Ayende Rahien <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:90g5dj$vrm5$[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
>
> "Adam Short" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> news:5mMW5.42$[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> > > I wonder why they are so lazy that they can't put a simple warning
box.
> >
> > Do Microsoft warn you that installing Windows will overwrite the MBR,
> making
> > Windows the only bootable OS? Do they hell! Plus the Windows setup
routine
> > doesn't even ask about partitions. Unless you've used fdisk yourself
> > beforehand to sort out the partitioning, Windows will just sprawl into
all
> > available space. No warnings about that one either. Just a little
message
> > that helpfully tells you that the hard drive is being formatted for your
> > pleasure and delectation.
>
> No windows installation will repartition/format your HD.
> The closest thing to this is NT converting the FS you install it on to
NTFS
> if you ask it too, and give you the option to convert or format to NTFS.
And
> you are *asked* about it.
> Overwriting the MBR is indeed bad, but it cause no loss of data and is
> largely an annoiance.
>
>
>
>
>
------------------------------
From: "Adam Short" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
comp.os.linux,comp.os.linux.x,comp.os.ms-windows,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy
Subject: Re: Linux is awful
Date: Mon, 04 Dec 2000 14:49:56 GMT
Windows isn't all bad. It does most things pretty reasonably. Its the really
important things that it messes up.
Charlie Ebert <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> On Mon, 04 Dec 2000 12:45:53 GMT,
> Adam Short <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >> I wonder why they are so lazy that they can't put a simple warning box.
> >
> >Do Microsoft warn you that installing Windows will overwrite the MBR,
making
> >Windows the only bootable OS? Do they hell! Plus the Windows setup
routine
> >doesn't even ask about partitions. Unless you've used fdisk yourself
> >beforehand to sort out the partitioning, Windows will just sprawl into
all
> >available space. No warnings about that one either. Just a little message
> >that helpfully tells you that the hard drive is being formatted for your
> >pleasure and delectation.
> >
> >
>
> You forgot to mention that once it is installed, it's an unexplainable
> blue screening pile of bullcrap. No matter what kind of software
> you put on it, whether it was made in house or not, it's one time
> consuming, messy blue screening pile of worthless electron wastin
> shit!
>
>
> uuummmm humm. badd
> uuummmm hmmm badd
>
> That what's microsoft is
> UUUUMMMM HMMMM BADDDDDD!
>
>
> Charlie
>
>
>
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Bruce Scott TOK)
Subject: Re: OS Sound OFF.
Date: 4 Dec 2000 15:54:40 +0100
Using Solaris
Using Cray UNICOS/mk
Others Linux SUSE 6.4
nice laptop... 256 MB, runs my code in full resolution!
--
cu,
Bruce
drift wave turbulence: http://www.rzg.mpg.de/~bds/
sign the Linux Driver Petition: http://www.libranet.com/petition.html
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 05 Dec 2000 01:12:33 +1000
From: Ian Pulsford <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: OS Sound OFF.
OSes on Machines:
A PC come X-Terminal running LEM (Linux Embedded) Linux 0.61 served NFS
style via a machine running FreeBSD 4.0. Another machine dual boots
Windows 98 and Redhat 6.2.
OSes on shelves: OS/2 4.0, Various Linuxes, FreeBSD 3.3, Solaris 7.
IanP
Charlie Ebert wrote:
> Everybody who reads this, sound off with your OS please.
> The one your using or like the most.
>
> Then the others you use follow.
>
> Using Debian 2.3 Woody
>
> Others None.
>
> Thanks
>
> Charlie
------------------------------
From: "Eduardo Samaniego" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: alt.destroy.microsoft,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy
Subject: SV: Windoze 2000 - just as shitty as ever
Date: Mon, 04 Dec 2000 16:17:58 GMT
What is the matter with microsoft!?
T. Max Devlin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> skrev i
diskussionsgruppsmeddelandet:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Said Ayende Rahien in alt.destroy.microsoft on Fri, 1 Dec 2000 02:56:54
> >"T. Max Devlin" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> [...]
> >> >In logic or sophistry, 2 wrongs can make a right.
> >>
> >> Oh? Does that mean that two rights make a wrong?
> >
> >In some languages, two negatives makes positive, in others, three
negatives
> >makes negative, but in no language two positives makes negative.
> >YEAH RIGHT!
>
> <*grin*>
>
> --
> T. Max Devlin
> *** The best way to convince another is
> to state your case moderately and
> accurately. - Benjamin Franklin ***
>
> Sign the petition and keep Deja's archive alive!
> http://www2.PetitionOnline.com/dejanews/petition.html
>
>
> -----= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =-----
> http://www.newsfeeds.com - The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World!
> -----== Over 80,000 Newsgroups - 16 Different Servers! =-----
------------------------------
From: Pete Goodwin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Linux is awful
Date: Mon, 04 Dec 2000 16:15:44 GMT
In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
kiwiunixman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> So as I see it there are three types of COLA subscribers, hardcore
> wintrolls such as Chad Myer, who believes NT is the bee's knee's,
> hardcore Linux users who believe Linux is the best no matter what, then
> there are people who are moderate, such as you (Pete) who see Linux as
> great, however, Linux needs to be improved (esp. in the area of GUI and
> ease of use). True or untrue?
You hit the nail on the head.
--
---
Pete
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.
------------------------------
From: Pete Goodwin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Anyone have to use (*GAG*) Windows on the job?
Date: Mon, 04 Dec 2000 16:20:12 GMT
In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
Charlie Ebert:<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> ahhhg... Well, I suppose we are just idiots in your world
> Pete.
It's perfectly reasonable enough, did you try it?
Most support centres will ask you the same thing: can you demonstrate
the problem with a simple example?
--
---
Pete
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.
------------------------------
From: Pete Goodwin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Goodwin Acknowledges he's an idiot.
Date: Mon, 04 Dec 2000 16:21:34 GMT
In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
kiwiunixman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> why not alt-ctrl-backspace to restart X
Didn't know that one.
--
---
Pete
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.
------------------------------
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End of Linux-Advocacy Digest
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