Linux-Advocacy Digest #934, Volume #25 Tue, 4 Apr 00 07:13:06 EDT
Contents:
Re: BEOS 5 the new star in OS's ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
Re: linux users group? (Daniel O'Nolan)
Re: 10 things with Linux I wish I knew before i jumped (Daniel O'Nolan)
Re: Windows 2000 has "issues" (Bob Hauck)
Re: Guilty, 'til proven guilty ("Tim Haynes")
Re: So where are the MS supporters. ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
Re: For the WinTrolls - incredible ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
Re: A Microsoft Cartoon ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
Re: it is OUT, MS is GUILTY ! (david parsons)
NYC LOCAL: Tuesday 4 April 2000 LXNY General Meeting: Copyright and the Right to
Choose Operating Systems ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
Re: So where are the MS supporters. (mlw)
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: BEOS 5 the new star in OS's
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Tue, 04 Apr 2000 09:16:43 GMT
On 03 Apr 2000 16:45:54 -0600, Craig Kelley <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:
>Sascha Bohnenkamp <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
>
>> > It is unix-ish under the hood.
>>
>> more or less
>>
>> > It's kind of interesting to play with,
>> > if you have the spare time. It really shines with threaded multimedia
>> > applications
>>
>> which? name three
>
>You're not really interested.
That's a great answer :(
Steve
------------------------------
From: Daniel O'Nolan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: linux users group?
Date: Tue, 04 Apr 2000 05:21:16 +0200
BadMan wrote:
>
> How about in NYC ?
>
> Paul Gowder <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> news:8c3ojh$p7i$[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> > Hiya -- I'm wondering if anyone knows of a linux users group or some
> similar
> > organization in the boston area.
> >
> > thanks,
> > -Paul
> >
> > The address "[EMAIL PROTECTED]" goes directly to the trash.
> > (anti-spam mechanism) replace "null" with "paul" to reach me.
> >
> > "Oh, it's just a mob war: go back to sleep honey."
> > -Marge Simpson (on my favorite episode)
www.mylug.org
------------------------------
From: Daniel O'Nolan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: alt.os.linux
Subject: Re: 10 things with Linux I wish I knew before i jumped
Date: Tue, 04 Apr 2000 05:27:36 +0200
Ken J Braatz wrote:
>
> In article <38e6f073@news>, "Rich Cloutier" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> wrote:
> > "Douglas E. Mitton" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> > news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> >>
> >> Yes, I agree with some things on your list ...
> >>
> >> - Windows users never have to deal with partitioning. That is one of
> >> the toughest concepts the new Linux installer has to contend with.
> >> Now, buy it pre-installed and its as easy as buying a computer with
> >> Windows pre-installed! :-)
> >
> > When did Windows users get so stupid? I remember when there were all
> > kinds of tips in PC Magazine and others about how to partition your
> > hard drive to save space and to protect your data and so forth. I still
> > partition my hard drives into a system drive (for windows) and a data
> > drive for programs and data. Then i can just format c: to reinstall
> > windows and not lose anything else.
> >
>
> I remember those days too. Like when PCComputing actually had some useful
> information. Keep in mind, however, that far fewer people had PCs at home
> back then. The industry's grown considerably since.
>
> >>
> >> - Knowing your hardware. The typical windows user has no idea what
> >> hardware is inside the box at all. They know the general stuff,
> >> speed, processor, HD size, CD, floppy and sound. Linux users generally
> >> have to know what is "in" their "box"!
> >
> > What did all these people do before Plug and Pray? I can't believe they
> > were all paying computer repair shops in cash or relatives in beer
> > just to get that scsi scanner card installed with windows 3.1.
>
> They took their machines to specialty shops and paid someone $100 to
> install it for them. I remember when there were at least 20 of these
> shops within 15 minutes from my house. None of them are around any more.
>
> >>
> >> The biggest solution to these problems that I've been able to see is:
> >>
> >> - Don't buy an old Linux book from a discount book store that may be
> >> 5+ years out of date and try to install that distribution. Definetly
> >> don't think thats state-of-the-art for Linux. Have you ever used
> >> Windows 3.0? <shudder> :-)
> >
> > Actually, the distribution and the book should be pretty much in sync.
> > What you definitely should NOT do is download a current version from
> > the web and try to use the book.
>
> I haven't used Corel, but I can say that Mandrake 7.0.2 picked up my
> hardware better then Win2K. I mean, it got my 2940UW card and tape drive,
> CDRW, Zip, Sound Blaster, the NIC, brand spanking new Voodoo 3500 and
> everything worked with no problems. If RedHat and the others continue
> this trend towards simplicity in the setup, I think Linux really has a
> chance against Windows.
>
> >>
> >> - Get a recent distribution, a few minutes research on the net will
> >> get you that. Pick up a Linux magazine (or 2 or 3). Lurk in the
> >> Usenet groups for awhile.
> >
> > (Just not this one. There is no practical knowledge to be gained here.)
> >
> >> Get involved with your local Linux User Group or cultivate a
> >> friendship with someone with some experience at Linux.
> >
> > Good idea! (We take payment in beer too.)
> >
> >>
> >> - Expect to do some research to learn how your new system works. No
> >> one is born comfortable with Windows. Generally, you just don't
> >> remember the long painful learning curve you had. A typical Linux
> >> distribution is huge and there are many things that you have to get
> >> working. Windows doesn't come "stock" with nearly as much "stuff" as
> >> Linux. Linux tries hard to be everything to everyone and so it is a
> >> little more complex. I personally found the work worth it.
> >>
>
> Honestly, aside from the stability, the only reason I use Linux over
> Windows, is WindowMaker. WM is, to me one of the best shells I've ever
> worked with. If there was a WM port to Win2K, I'd probably switch back.
> I've used 2K for a while and find it stable enough for what I do at
> home... which is mostly surf. Hell, if I switched back I could even dump
> my MetaFrame server that I use so I can get to Quicken. Now, if Intuit
> would port Quicken I'd never go back to Windows regardless of what shells
> were available.
>
> >> Good luck!
> >>
> > Hear hear!
> >
> > [snip]
> >
> > -- Rich C.
> > "Great minds discuss ideas.
> > Average minds discuss events. Small minds discuss people."
> >
> >
> >
>
> --
>
> --
> Ken J Braatz
>
> Remove "_spamthis_" to respond via email.
I'm agree with you on WindowMaker. It's elegant, stable, and fast. If
you have to use windows though, and like WM, then I suggest litestep.
It not only will use up less memory, but will actually make windows a
little more stable. Here's the URL:
www.litestep.org
-Dan O'Nolan
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Bob Hauck)
Crossposted-To: comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: Windows 2000 has "issues"
Date: 2 Apr 2000 15:54:16 GMT
Reply-To: bobh{at}haucks{dot}org
On Sat, 1 Apr 2000 21:07:38 -0600, Erik Funkenbusch <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>Bob Hauck <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
>news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
>> So the problem is that the domain service runs out of something (file
>> handles or listening sockets maybe)?
>> Most Unixen impose a limit (usually admin-adjustable) on per-process file
>> handles.
>You usually have to recompile the kernel to adjust these limits though.
>Therefore they are hard coded (such as the number of processes)
Linux 2.2 allows you to adjust most of those at runtime. Some older
Unixen required a relink (not a recompile) to change certain things, but
that seems to be going away in modern versions.
>> That's a pretty lame defense. Sure, maybe that's an unusual
>> configuration, but this "issue" is still a bug that should be fixed.
>
>I didn't say it shouldn't be fixed. I'm simply saying that it's not the
>major problem that effects all ISP's that the press made it out to be.
MS would do themselves a lot of good if they would just give the real
explanation (it is a bug that affects a few customers only and will be
fixed by such-and-such a date) rather than dissembling and covering up.
Saying "it is't a bug, just an issue" makes them look foolish. Saying "no
customers have reported it" makes them look even more foolish when the
press is saying they have talked with customers who say they've reported
it.
The press jumps all over that kind of thing as it looks like MS are hiding
something. And, well, they are actually.
>> So, it was not an issue even though it was because the design didn't
>> contain the limitation, only the implementation? That's gotta be some
>> kind of classic doublespeak there.
>
>No, I said DirectDraw was not the problem. The problem was one particular
>implementation of DirectDraw. mlw indicated that DirectDraw itself had some
>kind of hard coded limit.
Uh, right. So it isn't DirectDraw, but the implementation of
DirectDraw. I'm afraid I still hear the sound of hairs being split.
>> >Windows 95 also had no arbitray number of window handles limit. Windows
>> >and 9x had a fixed size (64k) heap for USER handles, which include menu
>> Wow, that's a lot better. Instead of running out at a fixed number, it
>> ran out depending on 500 things you couldn't predict. Cool.
>Well, that was because of the 16 bit architecture.
You mean Win95 _wasn't_ "all 32 bit"? Of course, we both know that, but
it seems a lot of your fellow Winvocates are still in denial on that
particular point.
>> BTW, there _was_ a limit on *system* handles in Win3 and they were not
>> garbage-collected. The system brushes for example.
>
>Actually, it was Display Contexts, not system handles.
Yes, I was mistaken on that one, thanks for correcting it. Either way,
contrary to what you said, there were "hard coded" limits in Win3.
--
-| Bob Hauck
-| To Whom You Are Speaking
-| http://www.bobh.org/
------------------------------
From: "Tim Haynes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: uk.comp.os.linux,gnu.misc.discuss
Subject: Re: Guilty, 'til proven guilty
Date: 04 Apr 2000 10:32:39 +0100
Reply-To: "Tim Haynes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
[EMAIL PROTECTED] (phil hunt) writes:
> Microsoft is guilty, Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha!!!!!!!
>
> The only think that remains to be decided is what sentence the judge will
> pass. Personally, I favour The Chair, but I will admit there is much to
> be said for a lethal injection.
But how do you apply either to a company?
Is splitting them up into a lot of monopolies all specialists in several
areas (particularly if they're all part of the "M$loth Group", or whatever)
any good?
Would the open-source community be interested in hacking Windoze code,
should (for example) IE5 be open-sourced?
~Tim
--
| Geek Code: GCS dpu s-:+ a-- C++++ UBLUAVHSC++++ P+++ L++ E--- W+++(--) N++
| w--- O- M-- V-- PS PGP++ t--- X+(-) b D+ G e++(*) h++(*) r--- y-
| The sun is melting over the hills, | http://piglet.is.dreaming.org/
| All our roads are waiting / To be revealed | [EMAIL PROTECTED]
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: So where are the MS supporters.
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Tue, 04 Apr 2000 09:50:48 GMT
Ok I'll bite..........
Can't stand Gates, although I admire a self made millionaire, unlike
some liberal Kennedy slime that inherited it all.
Use Windows because for me it works.
Don't use Linux because for me it sucks.
Could care less what anybody else uses as long as it works for them.
Am applications based so an os is really a necessary evil, kind of
like gasoline for a car.
Believe that MS has done more for the home computing market than any
corporation to date. They have truely brought the geek world of
computing to the desktop of the typical soccer mom.
Believe that MS HAS played dirty pool and should be punished for doing
so. Examples Stac and Digital Research.
Believe that whatever the government does, MS will come out on top of
it all. Checked your phone bill lately? Deregulation did wonders for
us all in that market :(
As far as the Linux vs Windows contest is concerned, I believe that MS
has set the trap and is simply waiting to spring it.
MS has done very little to counter the press that Linux has been
receiving in the last year. This is especially true for the desktop
and less so for the server market but still there has been no direct
attack on Linux.
My theory is that MS is simply allowing people to choose and try Linux
to see what it is all about.
Once they try it and find out how much it sucks, all by themselves,
they will come running back to the MS fold in mass.
Linux truely speaks for itself. For every geek that loves the control
there are 500 normal users that need to accomplish tasks that require
software that simply is not available under Linux. Or if it is
available, it is so crude and ugly looking it is not worth mentioning.
Or it's simply not compatible with what the rest of the free world is
running.
If I were working at Microsoft, I would be certain that a RedHat Linux
CD got mailed to every MS subscriber so they could see for themselves
what Linux is all about.
To date I have given out somewhere near 50 Linux CD's and not one,
not even one, person has stuck with Linux that I am aware of.
Linux in and of itself sends a powerful message....
Steve
On Mon, 03 Apr 2000 22:25:58 -0400, mlw <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
>I just check on at, 10:25 PM EST to see what the MS supporters had to
>say about the court ruling, and low and behold, nothing.
>
>Hmmm, I am left to wonder.
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: For the WinTrolls - incredible
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Tue, 04 Apr 2000 09:53:40 GMT
On 4 Apr 2000 09:01:28 GMT, [EMAIL PROTECTED] (No Name) wrote:
No. The Linux community hides behind .99 releases for years at a time
to frightened to commit to a version 1.0.
This way when the program sucks, and most Linux programs do suck, they
can claim "what do you expect it is still being developed".
Steve
>At least the Linux community calls things by their name, and when
>there is a bug, bug it is called.
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: A Microsoft Cartoon
Date: Tue, 04 Apr 2000 10:01:13 GMT
In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
Aaron Kulkis <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Gavin Chafin wrote:
> >
> > http://downtoearth.bta.com/
>
> Don't quit your day job.
>
> the "star trek" one has all the elements of a joke, except it lacks
> humor.
>
You again?! Aaron, I had a feeling you'd come out of the woodworks
sooner or later. It's good to see that you're still reading and
enjoying 'Down to Earth'. Keep up the good work.
Gavin Chafin
http://downtoearth.bta.com
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (david parsons)
Subject: Re: it is OUT, MS is GUILTY !
Date: 4 Apr 2000 02:18:14 -0700
In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
Craig Kelley <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>*** <*****@**********.com> writes:
>> Lets see if the powers that be have the guts to do what is right and
>> needed, and break up Microsoft!!!!
>As if that would help at all.
It would help Microsoft's stockholders a lot -- break the company up
into 3-4 baby bills that have to compete again, and the stockholders
would reap rewards past their wildest dreams as the baby bills each
converted into competitive entities like Microsoft USED to be before
it got its monopoly.
It would probably be very bad for the competition, and it would cost
the US government quite a bit of money to enforce antitrust on all
of these companies, but it would certainly make the computing market
an interesting place to watch from a great distance.
If MS is able to buy off the appeals court or the decision is less
that a breakup, Microsoft will probably rot like gcc and be overtaken
by Linux when the Windows installed base revolts against one of MSes
promiscuous interface changes.
____
david parsons \bi/ By the time that rolls around, Redhat will have eaten
\/ the Linux market and be well on the way to rotting too,
but it won't be quite so pungent as the corpse of
Microsoft will be.
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Crossposted-To: comp.os.linux.misc,comp.unix.bsd.freebsd.misc
Subject: NYC LOCAL: Tuesday 4 April 2000 LXNY General Meeting: Copyright and the Right
to Choose Operating Systems
Date: 4 Apr 2000 06:43:53 -0400
LXNY will have a general meeting Tuesday 4 April 2000.
This meeting is free and open to the public.
The meeting runs from 6:30 pm to 9:00 pm. After the meeting full and
precise instructions on how to get to our traditional place of refreshment
will be given in clear.
Thanks to support of the IBM Corporation, the meeting is at their building
at 590 Madison Avenue at East 57th Street on the Island of Manhattan.
Enter the building at the corner of Madison and 57th and ask at the desk
for the floor and room number.
This meeting will be a general discussion meeting.
A brief report will be made on Refund Day activities in New York City.
Students and teachers and workers at institutions of learning, in
particular, students, faculty, and staff at Columbia University, are
invited to come to this meeting to discuss Columbia's proposed new policy
on copyright of software written by students, faculty, and staff.
http://moglen.law.columbia.edu/ip/policy-comment.html
<blockquote
from="Michael Smith, Acting Managing Director LXNY"
edit-level="light">
DOES THE UNIVERSITY OWN YOUR IDEAS?
Columbia University is presently considering a new ``Intellectual
Property'' Policy that will determine how much of the work you create
is controlled by you, and how much is controlled by the University. If
passed in its present form, its provisions will be binding on all
students, employees, and faculty of Columbia, whether one has signed
anything agreeing to its terms or not. A Standing Committee appointed
by the Provost will rule on all disputes between the creator and the
University: the creator may appeal its decisions only to the President,
and the President's decision will be considered final.
The Draft Proposal has a clause about software (section I.C.4. Software),
stating that anyone associated with Columbia who writes software that
could conceivably have commercial potential must disclose this software to
the University.* As presently written and presently interpreted by the
Committee that drafted the Proposal, this would apply even to software
conceived and developed on your own time with your own computer in your
own home.
Apparently, the University has threatened to bypass the normal legislative
process and simply impose this new policy by administrative fiat. Only
a demonstration of widespread concern will block such a course of
action. If you have written software, hope to write software, or just
wish to preserve your right to keep your own thoughts to yourself,
your input to this process is needed now!
The document in its entirety can be seen at
http://moglen.law.columbia.edu/ip/policy-comment.html or at
https://www1.columbia.edu/sec/cu/provost/docs/copyright/cover.html or at
the University Senate page. You can make your views and suggestions known
1)by sending e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED], 2)by using the links on
the web pages containing this draft document, or 3)by participating in the
`town meeting' being held by the University in 207 Low Library on Tuesday,
April 4th at 2:00 pm.
*<ga>`Because the analysis underlying the University's decision as to
whether it will assert rights to any software may be more complex than
the analysis with respect to other works, software is subject to special
disclosure requirements. Specifically, if the faculty member or other
creator believes the software has commercial potential or wishes to
license or otherwise commercialize the software developed, whether or not
the creator believes the University would assert rights to it, he or she
must disclose the software to the University pursuant to the disclosure
procedures described in Section II of this Policy. As set forth in
those disclosure procedures, any disputes between the creator and the
University with regard to the University's decision whether to assert
rights shall be resolved by the Copyright Policy Standing Committee.'
-Michael E. Smith, [EMAIL PROTECTED]
</blockquote>
Jay Sulzberger <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Corresponding Secretary LXNY
LXNY is New York's Free Computing Organization.
http://www.lxny.org
------------------------------
From: mlw <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: So where are the MS supporters.
Date: Tue, 04 Apr 2000 06:43:58 -0400
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>
> Ok I'll bite..........
>
> Can't stand Gates, although I admire a self made millionaire, unlike
> some liberal Kennedy slime that inherited it all.
Well, Gates is not a self-made millionaire, that is propaganda from the
MS machine. Bill's father was a very wealthy man, with lots of contacts,
to begin with. Bill is by no means "self made" at all.
[snippage]
> Believe that MS has done more for the home computing market than any
> corporation to date. They have truely brought the geek world of
> computing to the desktop of the typical soccer mom.
Actually, anything and everything you think Microsoft "has done" for the
PC was really done by Apple for the Macintosh, first. There have been a
lot of innovative concepts that were squashed by Microsoft. Do you
remember "Go" computing? Sort of like a note book sized palm pilot. They
had VC, press, a working product, OEMs ready to produce, they had ISVs
ready to write programs for it. Microsoft stomped on them. They
announced "Pen Windows" to scare the industry away from them. That was a
picture perfect example of using Monopoly power to thwart competition
and innovation. Pen Windows has yet to see the light of day, and that
was about ten years ago.
>
> Believe that MS HAS played dirty pool and should be punished for doing
> so. Examples Stac and Digital Research.
Ah, but so many more. Too many to name, and those are the ones of which
we know.
>
> Believe that whatever the government does, MS will come out on top of
> it all. Checked your phone bill lately? Deregulation did wonders for
> us all in that market :(
yes and no. In "real" adjusted dollars, the phone bills are lower from
the time AT&T had the monopoly. The big issue is all the things you can
do with phone lines. The types of phones you can have.
>
> As far as the Linux vs Windows contest is concerned, I believe that MS
> has set the trap and is simply waiting to spring it.
What trap would that be?
>
> MS has done very little to counter the press that Linux has been
> receiving in the last year. This is especially true for the desktop
> and less so for the server market but still there has been no direct
> attack on Linux.
This is in hope that they can use Linux as a counter argument to the
Governments case.
>
> My theory is that MS is simply allowing people to choose and try Linux
> to see what it is all about.
> Once they try it and find out how much it sucks, all by themselves,
> they will come running back to the MS fold in mass.
THis may be your opinion, but, I have a completely different one. I
refuse to use Windows anymore. My time is to valuable to reboot.
>
> Linux truely speaks for itself. For every geek that loves the control
> there are 500 normal users that need to accomplish tasks that require
> software that simply is not available under Linux. Or if it is
> available, it is so crude and ugly looking it is not worth mentioning.
> Or it's simply not compatible with what the rest of the free world is
> running.
This is sort of chicken and egg sort of thing. What you are saying is
that Linux is not bad, but that it needs applications. This is true to a
point. All the basics are there. Applix, Star Office, Corel Office,
etc. make reasonable platforms for general office work. The Linux
platform is gaining popularity daily and more and more programs are
coming to it. If lack of programs is your only complaint, then you
really don't have one.
>
> If I were working at Microsoft, I would be certain that a RedHat Linux
> CD got mailed to every MS subscriber so they could see for themselves
> what Linux is all about.
See, now you are just trying to be nasty.
>
> To date I have given out somewhere near 50 Linux CD's and not one,
> not even one, person has stuck with Linux that I am aware of.
The issue with Linux, or any OS for that matter, including Windows, is
initial setup. Windows has a huge advantage, in that it comes
pre-installed at the store. A Linux machine, equally setup, would be
just as usable, probably more so. To Linux setup from scratch, is a bit
of work, but so is stock Windows.
--
Mohawk Software
Windows 9x, Windows NT, UNIX, Linux. Applications, drivers, support.
Visit http://www.mohawksoft.com
"We've got a blind date with destiny, and it looks like she ordered the
lobster"
------------------------------
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End of Linux-Advocacy Digest
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