Linux-Advocacy Digest #87, Volume #26 Wed, 12 Apr 00 02:13:04 EDT
Contents:
Re: Looking forward to Apple's MacOX X (John Jensen)
Re: Be vs. Linux ("Jim Ross")
Re: Windows is scary all right ("craig")
Alternative OS Implementation Languages (Christopher Browne)
Re: Why Linux on the desktop? (Christopher Browne)
Re: Linux stocks soar in aftermarket trading ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
Re: I have a dream! ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
Re: RH linux stable?? (matts)
DHCP setting ("Pig")
Re: I have a dream! (Bastian)
Re: I have a dream! (Bastian)
Re: Looking forward to Apple's MacOX X (Ziya Oz)
Re: about alt.linux.sucks (matts)
Re: Backdoors in Windows 2000? (Bob Germer)
Re: Windows IS the dominant corporate OS (matts)
Re: Backdoors in Windows 2000? (Marty)
Re: 2000: Hammer blows to the Micro$oft machine! (Jeremy Crabtree)
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: John Jensen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.sys.next.advocacy
Subject: Re: Looking forward to Apple's MacOX X
Date: 12 Apr 2000 04:11:29 GMT
M. Vaughn <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
: And fail due to the fact that while Apple can pay trained designers a
: shitload of money to desigh such an interface, the people who try to
: one-up them in the freenix development communities are going to be working
: for nothing and under little real management.
How do you feel about the ones that _are_ being paid? The leading Linux
GUIs do have their commercial hackers:
http://www.trolltech.com/
http://www.labs.redhat.com/
Other commercial interests are working GUI and ease-of-use issues. Two
that spring to mind are:
http://www.helixcode.com/
http://www.eazel.com/
Another set of commercial interests are working to facilitate more
traditional free software projects:
http://sourceforge.net/
(and more)
: Open-source GUIs, so far, look like they were designed by a committee
: because THEY ARE. Every UI I have used on Linux or FreeBSD (besides the
: command line) is a feature-laden (or leaden, if you will) beast that
: lacks any sort of consistency or real flair.
I'm running the Gnome that came with Red Hat 6.1 on my big box, and just a
simple window manager (icewm) on my small box. When I look at either one
I suppose I could call the glass half-empty ... but I remember what was
there two years ago (FVWM?). I find the rate of progress to be pretty
impressive. Enough so, that any snapshot of current state doesn't really
seem too vexing.
John
------------------------------
From: "Jim Ross" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Be vs. Linux
Date: Sat, 8 Apr 2000 18:48:17 -0400
ax <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:qkOH4.4201$[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
>
> "Bob Hauck" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> > On Sat, 08 Apr 2000 18:03:13 GMT, ax <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >
> >
> > >Will Linus be willing to give up control to allow the DIFFERENCEs?
> >
> > He already did. The GPL says you can modify the code any way you want,
> > and even distribute it, provided you also make the source available. It
> > does not say anything about Linus giving permission.
> >
>
> If that's the case, why those Linux companies don't take the kernel
> with them and make speedy enhancement or cleanup of the
> kernel instead of relying on part time Linus?
They do and submit patches back to Linus.
RedHat kernels are non standard (not that different I suppose).
They at least temporary includes patches made by RedHat that either haven't
gone to Linus yet or ones he doesn't want in the
mainsteam kernel for whatever reason, like they are niche changes that harm
general performance, etc.
>
> I'd rather see companies such as Red Hat and many others to
> take the lead in the kernel development instead of having Linus
> to control when and how the next kernel release will be.
They pretty much do.
I hear most kernel hackers work for RedHat, including the Linux kernel No 2
man Alan Cox, which basically runs the
2.2 kernel which virtually all of us are using right now.
Just because RedHat doesn't employ all the kernel hackers or the very top
guy you have a problem with that?
That is very unfair attitude to all the other Linux distributions like Corel
for example.
There is a reason for minor kernel changes, and there are good reasons to
stay very close to the standard kernel and not forking.
Jim Ross
>
> Did I misunderstand anything?
>
> > --
> > -| Bob Hauck
> > -| To Whom You Are Speaking
> > -| http://www.bobh.org/
>
>
------------------------------
Reply-To: "craig" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
From: "craig" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy,alt.destroy.microsoft
Subject: Re: Windows is scary all right
Date: Wed, 12 Apr 2000 14:33:46 +1000
So I suppose corporate e-mail is not mission critical -
see(http://www.microsoft.com/exchange/55/news/Fortune1000.htm)
Or maybe the largest ISP (and coincidently, always rates as the "best, most
reliable service" in user surveys) in Australia that is almost exclusively
NT. I know its not fortune 500, but it is still large to say the least!!!!.
There are many others - I just don't have time to dig up URL's
Regards,
"Aaron Kulkis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
>
>
> Bob Lyday wrote:
> >
> > "Keith T. Williams" wrote:
> > >
> > > So are you guys so afraid of windows?
> > >
> > It's scary all right, Keith, like driving a Pinto was...yep,
> > Windows is so bad is frightening, terrifying, horrifying...you
> > said it...
>
> Damn straight. I use windows for recreational purposes.
>
> But after the track record of the last 10 years, NO Fortune 500
> company is putting ANY mission-critical application on Windows.
>
> They might use Windows as a data-terminal to front-end to the app,
> but no way in hell is anybody putting ANYTHING mission critical
> on a Microsoft machine.
>
> PERIOD.
>
>
> >
> > > Majordomo <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> > > news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> > > > [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > They are still free to make whatever choice they wish.
> > > > > If Linux is not strong enough stand on it's own accord then that
is
> > > > > Linux's problem, not mine.
> > > > >
> > > > > You must believe it is not strong enough, because you seem to have
a
> > > > > need to jump to it's defense all the time.
> > > > >
> > > > > There are probably more Windows/Microsot "sucks" type groups and
web
> > > > > sites than there are for Linux and it hasn't seemed to hurt
Windows
> > > > > sales at all.
> > > > >
> > > > > Steve
> > > >
> > > > People only attack that which they fear, hence by your attacks on
Linux,
> > > its
> > > > users, and its advocates, you obviously are fearful about linux for
some
> > > reason.
> > > >
> > > > -NateGrey
> > > > "Fear the Penguins"
> > > >
> > > >
> >
> > --
> > Bob
> > "We blew it -- too big, too slow..." - Bill Gates talking about
> > Windows NT during a meeting with Steven McGeady of Intel.
>
> --
> Aaron R. Kulkis
> Unix Systems Engineer
> ICQ # 3056642
>
> H: Knackos...you're a retard.
>
> A: The wise man is mocked by fools.
>
> B: "Jeem" Dutton is a fool of the pathological liar sort.
>
> C: Jet plays the fool and spews out nonsense as a method of
> sidetracking discussions which are headed in a direction
> that she doesn't like.
>
> D: Jet claims to have killfiled me.
>
> E: Jet now follows me from newgroup to newsgroup
> ...despite (D) above.
>
> F: Neither Jeem nor Jet are worthy of the time to compose a
> response until their behavior improves.
>
> G: Unit_4's "Kook hunt" reminds me of "Jimmy Baker's" harangues against
> adultery while concurrently committing adultery with Tammy Hahn.
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Christopher Browne)
Crossposted-To: comp.os.linux.development.system
Subject: Alternative OS Implementation Languages
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Wed, 12 Apr 2000 04:39:35 GMT
Centuries ago, Nostradamus foresaw a time when Donal K. Fellows would say:
>In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
>Tom Mitchell <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>> Are there M3 compilers in the gnu world that are up to the task?
>> At least three processor targets.
>
>I think the one I'd heard of (log ago, admittedly) used the gcc
>back-end, so targetting loads of processors shouldn't be a problem.
<http://research.compaq.com/SRC/modula-3/html/platforms.html> reports
successful builds on:
a) AIX386 (believe it or not!)
b) Digital Alpha
c) HP PA-RISC
d) AIX PPC
e) IRIX MIPS
f) Linux ELF ia-32
g) Sun SPARC
<http://m3.polymtl.ca/m3/binaries/> reports a similar set of
successful platforms.
They do not specifically include any non-IA-32 Linux platforms, but
*do* include commercial UNIXes on pretty much all the important
platforms that Linux runs on, so that it *ought* to be feasible to get
the SRC implementation running on other architectures...
This is *precisely* why I mentioned M3 as an option; it might be well
and neat to propose writing an OS using CMU-Lisp or some Scheme, but
neither of *those* "general options" provide code generators for such
a diverse set of architectures.
The other option would be Eiffel.
--
Warning: Dates in calendar are closer than they appear.
[EMAIL PROTECTED] <http://www.hex.net/~cbbrowne/pascal.html>
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Christopher Browne)
Subject: Re: Why Linux on the desktop?
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Wed, 12 Apr 2000 04:39:36 GMT
Centuries ago, Nostradamus foresaw a time when John W. Stevens would
say elided things...
Strange... I thought I'd already *plonked.* Oh, well, *plonk'.*
--
The first cup of coffee recapitulates phylogeny.
[EMAIL PROTECTED] <http://www.ntlug.org/~cbbrowne/lsf.html>
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Crossposted-To: comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy,comp.os.os2.advocacy
Subject: Re: Linux stocks soar in aftermarket trading
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Wed, 12 Apr 2000 05:06:53 GMT
Dale A Cook <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> JESUS!
Don't summon him! Not having Jesus Monroy Jr is one of the major advantages
Linux used to have over *BSD ;-)
Bernie
--
On the highest throne in the world, we still sit only on our own
bottom
Montaigne
French moralist, 1533-92
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: I have a dream!
Date: 12 Apr 2000 14:37:47 +1000
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[EMAIL PROTECTED] (abraxas) writes:
>This is short sighted. They'll likely live on equally in the same
>number of minds. People in bavaria dont care about Dr. King, just
>as winvocates dont care about linux.
Now *that* is assuming that people in Bavaria lack education. And as much
as that assumption appeals to a Northern German like me, it just isn't
true.
Say "I have a dream" in Bavaria, and most people would know what you refer
to. Sure, there is no holiday in Dr King's honour --- but heck, there isn't
even a holidy in honour of the June 17th uprising in the former GDR anymore,
nor is there one in honour of Konrad Adenauer.
Bernie
--
It pays to be obvious, especially if you have a reputation for subtlety
Isaac Asimov
------------------------------
From: matts <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: RH linux stable??
Date: 12 Apr 2000 05:03:49 GMT
>
> Sure, the kernel might be stable and all that, but the graphical tools
> are as immature as Win95 or worse. The GUI side of Linux still has a
> ways to grow.
>
Everything in Linux "has a ways to grow" when it come to desktop
computing.. It simply sucks when doing desktop stuff. I can almost hear
Linux enthusiasts arguing against this, but regardless what they say,
Linux is an immature desktop platform. Programs such as Corel Office
prove I'm right.
------------------------------
From: "Pig" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: alt.os.linux,comp.os.linux.networking,comp.os.linux.setup
Subject: DHCP setting
Date: Wed, 12 Apr 2000 13:13:11 +0800
Hi:
I am now using the SuSE Linux 6.3.
I need to change it to DHCP.
I just get the IP address of the Proxy Server.
How can I do that?
Pls. help and reply to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Thanks.
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Bastian)
Subject: Re: I have a dream!
Date: 12 Apr 2000 05:15:36 GMT
It shows your stupidity and lack of reason/appropriateness/understanding of
history if you adapt a speech dealing with basic questions of mankind, in
particular the race issue, to such a simple and "manless" topic as an operating
system question. I admit that I haven't read your posting entirely, but when
it came to the first "I have a dream today" I got sick. Poor brain you have
there. I hope you won't get many positive answers.
Bastian
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Bastian)
Subject: Re: I have a dream!
Date: 12 Apr 2000 05:15:37 GMT
On 12 Apr 2000 03:21:38 GMT, abraxas wrote:
>> Dr. King will live on long after Linux/Linus has been forgotten.
>
>This is short sighted. They'll likely live on equally in the same
>number of minds. People in bavaria dont care about Dr. King, just
>as winvocates dont care about linux.
What's wrong with you? I'm from Bavaria, and people here care about MLK as much
as everywhere else. Boy, I'm pretty sure you don't even know where Bavaria is!
Next time you start becoming kind of anti-"insert one people at random here",
please don't spread your lack of intelligence to the rest of the world.
Bastian
------------------------------
Subject: Re: Looking forward to Apple's MacOX X
From: Ziya Oz <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.sys.next.advocacy
Date: Wed, 12 Apr 2000 05:19:34 GMT
John Jensen wrote:
> ...but I remember what was there two years ago (FVWM?). I find the rate of
> progress to be pretty impressive. Enough so, that any snapshot of current
> state doesn't really seem too vexing.
By this logic, one day, Windows will be an elegant, stable and coherent OS
to work with. After all, W2K is better than Win3x (and Linux has been around
for a number of years). Why not wait for MS to catch up to its own
pronouncements?
****
Ziya
------------------------------
From: matts <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: about alt.linux.sucks
Date: 12 Apr 2000 05:11:16 GMT
> No. As any fool knows, comp.os.linux.advocacy is the appropriate
> newsgroup for Linux bashers. Anything else is redundant.
Haha,. i love that. Of course it is....it's fun to read linux bashers
and linvocates argueing against "which platform is better." It's
pathetic but funny.
------------------------------
Crossposted-To:
comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy,comp.os.os2.advocacy,comp.sys.mac.advocacy
From: Bob Germer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: Tue, 11 Apr 2000 07:53:33 -0400
Subject: Re: Backdoors in Windows 2000?
On 04/10/2000 at 03:46 PM,
"David D. Huff Jr." <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> said:
> I read it. I also read the articles in Networking, and the Wall Street
> Journal. This is common knowledge for the literate.
> The lab that actually found the key notified the NSA first! Maybe you
> don't have access to well known publications by CMP. I understand that
> ZD is more your level so that is why you never heard it before now.
Of course, you read it David as did I and millions of others. My son in
law saw it on ZD Net on Cable. At least one client, a law firm, saw it in
the mainstream media and contacted me at once worried about the privacy of
client files from the prying eyes of unscrupulous law firms representing
the plaintiffs or defendants in lawsuits.
Then a few days later another law firm client called. He saw it in an
article in a legal newspaper. He too was concerned.
M$ can obfuscate, lie, and deny all it wants. Do you recall Genie?
It was an early competitor of CompuServe et al. There were reports that
they were getting data from subscriber's computers and selling it. Just
for shits and giggles, I created a DB2 database with four absolutely
fictional companies complete with normal looking entries for officers,
address, telephone numbers, etc. To anyone looking, the data appeared to
be real. The companies had valid addresses (those of four of our children)
and valid telephone numbers (two of them unlisted ones of mine, one for
one of my daughters, one for one of our associates).
Within weeks, we began getting snail mail for those companies. We also got
phone calls. When I presented this to the folks who were denying it and
threatened to send it to the Feds, they stopped and soon disappeared. They
did admit that they had a couple of rogue employees who were doing this
without knowledge of management.
That was about as believable as Bill Gates not knowing what his
programmers are doing.
--
==============================================================================================
Bob Germer from Mount Holly, NJ - E-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Proudly running OS/2 Warp 4.0 w/ FixPack 12
MR/2 Ice 2.10 Registration Number 67
As the court closes in on M$, Lemmings are morphing to Ostrats!
=============================================================================================
------------------------------
From: matts <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Windows IS the dominant corporate OS
Date: 12 Apr 2000 05:24:57 GMT
>
> So you can be an idiot and still write database clients. Neat. That must
> be whats been happening.
>
Try to be a little reasonable... Besides, after reading your one-liners, i have
concluded that you are a fucking moron. Do you do any development - I mean REAL
development? If so, you're still a fucking moron. Any questions? Good.
------------------------------
From: Marty <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy,comp.os.os2.advocacy,comp.sys.mac.advocacy
Subject: Re: Backdoors in Windows 2000?
Date: Wed, 12 Apr 2000 05:31:37 GMT
Bob Germer wrote:
>
> Just for shits and giggles, I created a DB2 database with four absolutely
> fictional companies complete with normal looking entries for officers,
> address, telephone numbers, etc. To anyone looking, the data appeared to
> be real. The companies had valid addresses (those of four of our children)
> and valid telephone numbers (two of them unlisted ones of mine, one for
> one of my daughters, one for one of our associates).
Ah! The origin of Bob's "clients" about whom he always speaks!
--
The infinite wisdom of Bob Osborn:
"It sounds as if you think somehow queers are better than morons and idiots
and we know that is not the case."
Jeff Glatt says:
"'Idiot' and 'moron' are not descriptive labels for people with learning
disabilities despite your own inability to grasp this very simple fact."
Bobo responds:
"I agree that it is not descriptive so why do you insist on using labels long
improperly attributed to the learning disabled?"
[Editorial: Note the admission that "idiot" and "moron" are derogatory in
nature and are not proper ways to refer to those with mental disabilities.]
Bobo says:
"I never suggested that it was proper to address a retarded person in this
way."
[Editorial: Re-affirming that referring to retarded persons as "idiots" and
"morons" is unacceptable.]
Regarding his position on the matter:
"My argument may not be of any importance to anybody, but at least it is
consistent"
[Editorial: So if we accept this, it's safe to assume that his usage of the
words "moron" and "idiot" are also consistent, hence they are derogatory
terms.]
"It sounds as if you think somehow queers are better than morons and idiots
and we know that is not the case."
So what are you trying to say here, Bobo?
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Jeremy Crabtree)
Crossposted-To: alt.destroy.microsoft
Subject: Re: 2000: Hammer blows to the Micro$oft machine!
Date: 12 Apr 2000 05:54:16 GMT
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Aaron Kulkis allegedly wrote:
>
>
>Jeremy Crabtree wrote:
>>
>> Jim Richardson allegedly wrote:
>> >On 8 Apr 2000 15:40:28 GMT,
>> > Jeremy Crabtree, in the persona of <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
>> > brought forth the following words...:
>> >
>> >>Leonard F. Agius allegedly wrote:
>> >>>
>> >>>We must be a rare breed, then. I read my owners manual, and actually bought
>> >>>the shop manual to the car, as well. I may not do all the work on it myself,
>> >>>but the more Iknow about my car, the less likely any service shop will try
>> >>>pull the wool over my eyes.
>> >>
>> >>Unfortunately, there isn' a shop manual for my car, otherwise I would have
>> >>that too.
>> >>
>> >
>> >Check for a Haynes manual, (making a huge assumption here that you are in
>> >the US.) Haynes manuals are nice because of the way they are set up. They
>> >really help IMHO.
>>
>> I have, and they don't have one for my car. (1996 Geo Metro, their Metro books
>> only cover through '94)
>
>Dork.
Ouch! I happen to /LIKE/ my car.
(and, at ~45-50MPG, the current gas prices make me like it even more ;)
>Get CHILTON'S.
I'll have a look...
[time passes]
Can't see, to find one from them either...%-/
--
"The UNIX philosophy is to provide some scraps of metal and an enormous
roll of duct tape. With those -- and possibly some scraps of your own
-- you can conquer the world." -- G. Sumner Hayes
------------------------------
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End of Linux-Advocacy Digest
******************************
