Linux-Advocacy Digest #736, Volume #26 Mon, 29 May 00 01:13:08 EDT
Contents:
Re: QB 4.5 in Win 2000 (T. Max Devlin)
Re: democracy? ("Colin R. Day")
I wish I could replace Windows with Linux..... (Tom)
Re: QB 4.5 in Win 2000 (T. Max Devlin)
Re: democracy? (Dowe Keller)
Re: democracy? ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
Re: Don't run Windows. ("Usenet User")
Re: QB 4.5 in Win 2000 (Roger)
Re: Tholen digest, volume 2451693.933^-00000000000001 ("Joe Malloy")
Re: Tholen digest, volume 2451694.938^-.0000000000009 ("Joe Malloy")
Re: how to enter a bug report against linux? (Richard Steiner)
Re: how to enter a bug report against linux? (Ray)
Dating Linux Geeks (SP)
Re: QB 4.5 in Win 2000 (Roger)
sgi workstation with monitor less than $300 ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
Re: Newsgroup for Gnome? (Jim Richardson)
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: T. Max Devlin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: alt.lang.basic,alt.destroy.microsoft
Subject: Re: QB 4.5 in Win 2000
Date: Sun, 28 May 2000 23:06:22 -0400
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Quoting budgie from alt.destroy.microsoft; Mon, 29 May 2000 01:03:09 GMT
>On 28 May 2000 14:53:39 -0500, [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Leslie Mikesell)
>wrote:
>>In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
>>budgie <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>(snip)
>>>The ONLY way that a 1994 product could handle the format of a 1997
>>>product is if there were no advancement.
>>
>>Or if the authors were bright enough to anticipate advancement
>>and allow unrecognized tags to be ignored. Or if they noticed
>>that lots of other products already did that and just copied
>>the idea...
>
>I somehow feel they are at the limit of their imagination and horizons
>as they rush each alpha to market. Nothing in reserve, so
>anticipation of future faetures is fairly much a non-possibility.
Oh, c'mon, now. We're talking about a multi-million dollar project of
thousands of programmers. You're saying that file structures, let alone
file formats, are going to change so erratically that "nobody can know"
future requirements? That's bullshit; I could give you a substantiated
list anticipated future features which would provide more than a fair
possibility of backward compatibility. It *isn't* a simple question of
limited thinking; its anti-competitive planning. Find me one concise
example of this kind of methodology in one of the countless internal
emails available on the web, and I'll take the time to provide that
list, if you're interested. They're not really hard to find. You might
try "halloween" as a key word.
>> But then they wouldn't be able to annoy everyone
>>into buying the next upgrade just for file compatibility with
>>the people who got the latest version bundled with their new
>>PC whether they needed the new features or not.
>
>I'd seen enough of Win95 and its associated Office product that, when
>it came time to buy a machine i insisted on WFWG and bought Office Pro
>4.3. The govt agency where I worked used wfwg3.11/4.3 and is tuck
>with what is till believe to be a robust combo. Note I didn't claim
>flawless, but from what I have seen I would place it ahead of the '95
>versions.
Any existing systems will generally run better than systems which are
replaced, so older versions would naturally be weighted towards the
perception of "robust". Maybe that's why OS/2 seems to be still
plugging away. Those systems which are still installed have certainly
found a niche, or they would be replaced. And very very few new
implementations would be occurring. It's still all NT, with a hold-out
of Unix, which is the core of the industry, though Linux is making heavy
ground on the outskirts. Most sizeable IT shops have at least two guys
who are running it at home. I don't have a take on the small
businesses, any more, I don't see them very much. The storefronts are
still variegated, but the core systems of corporations are changing, and
NT is still gaining some surprising ground. I would shudder to think of
the problems which will arise, but I recognize that its not the code
that protects your data, its how much you spend on it, and that's not
because of or related to Microsoft; its the nature of software. No data
is unextractable, or astronomically difficult to recover. NT systems
are backed up even more faithfully than Unix boxes (more easily, too,
but that's out of necessity, not technical capabilities).
>>>The biggest limitation of
>>>Wintel systems is the designers' perceived need to maintain backward
>>>compatibility.
>>
>>Huh? There aren't many new concepts in computer science since the
>>70's or so. If they ever get something right it should stay
>>that way.
>
>I couldn't agree more, but the artificial 640K barrier was one of the
>worst pieces of anticipation the Wintel industry has seen.
That's almost redirection, there. The argument that the 640K barrier
was a bad idea is scarcely support for the argument that the decision in
the 80s to implement a bad idea (the Wintel system incompatibility which
could be considered the root of most backward compatibility problems,
namely the 640K barrier). It was apparently a Microsoft lack of
anticipation. A flat memory model could have been used, and was
available in competing products (which didn't, alas, use per-processor
licensing to secure a monopoly). While these would still have been
limited by the original PC's 1Meg memory support, they wouldn't have
imposed a barrier like DOS did when the 386 became available.
>And its
>limitation haunted us through LIM-EMS and extended memory managers.
>(I still use some legacy apps which require EMS.)
>Something that we could have done far better without.
Apparently not in your case, eh? I don't know of anyone else who uses
any apps which require EMS. What are they?
[...]
>Again, I agree completely. But how do you ensure that the earlier
>version can and will ignore future tags and tokens when they are
>undefined at that stage?
Well, that's the difference between a file *structure*, and a file
*format*, and a document structure and format, as well, though that is
something quite different. If the file structure allows, tags and
tokens can have tags and tokens, which designate which functions in the
software are necessary to interpret which tags and tokens. Admittedly,
it can devolve to regression (since you have to be able to recognize the
tags in order to recognize the tags, as it were), but there's enough
known about the document application to be able to define rather easily
a structure which allows for unrecognized format. It's all just
hexadecimal on the disk, you know.
--
T. Max Devlin
Manager of Research & Educational Services
Managed Services
ELTRAX Technology Services Group
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
-[Opinions expressed are my own; everyone else, including
my employer, has to pay for them, subject to
applicable licensing agreement]-
====== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News ======
http://www.newsfeeds.com - The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World!
======= Over 80,000 Newsgroups = 16 Different Servers! ======
------------------------------
From: "Colin R. Day" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.linux.misc
Subject: Re: democracy?
Date: Sun, 28 May 2000 23:08:43 -0400
Matthias Warkus wrote:
> It was the Sat, 27 May 2000 17:21:57 -0400...
> ...and Mark Bratcher <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > Technically, we in the USA live in a Republic, not a democracy.
>
> In Sid Meier's Civilization, a republic is different from a democracy.
>
> It his however news to me that this has led people to believe that in
> real life, the same is true. A republic is a form of democracy.
Some republic have been far less democratic than some
constitutional monarchies.
>
>
> mawa
> --
> If wishes were horses, then beggars would be thieves.
Colin Day
------------------------------
From: Tom <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: alt.os.linux
Subject: I wish I could replace Windows with Linux.....
Date: Mon, 29 May 2000 02:58:30 GMT
....but.....
I am a digital artist. I could use LightWave, I expect, on Linux. And
that would be great. But I also need to run good image manipulation
software....
No, please don't even suggest the GIMP. Jeeeezuschrist. I just made a
25MB blank image in TheGIMP, and filled it with a gradation from black
to white, diagonally, across the whole image. Took 30 seconds to do
that, and it takes PhotoShop about 1 to 1.5 seconds on NT....
I have a gig of RAM, so it's not the RAM requirements that are choking
it.
I tried the same procedure using PhotoGenics (beta):
http://www.paulnolan.com/Linux/index.html
And I had pretty much the same results --- about 30 seconds to do the
gradation fill. Almost as long (in both programs) to do a rotation of
90 degrees of the resulting image.
Sheeeeesh.
Maybe someone here can enlighten me and show me some really fine paint
software for Linux that blows PhotoShop and / or Painter out of the
water and really shows off the performance superiority of Linux over
something like NT. I honestly would love to see it. I'd love to believe
that Linux blows NT out of the water in this area....but right now, I'm
just not seeing it......
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.
------------------------------
From: T. Max Devlin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: alt.lang.basic,alt.destroy.microsoft
Subject: Re: QB 4.5 in Win 2000
Date: Sun, 28 May 2000 23:10:08 -0400
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Quoting budgie from alt.destroy.microsoft; Mon, 29 May 2000 01:21:33 GMT
>On Sun, 28 May 2000 10:18:27 -0400, T. Max Devlin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>wrote:
>>Quoting budgie from alt.destroy.microsoft; Sun, 28 May 2000 11:23:06 GMT
>>>On Sun, 28 May 2000 02:03:03 +0200, Giuliano Colla
>>><[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>>>
>>>(snip)
>>>
>>>>Don't make me laugh lad! Do you think that Epson Computers delivers
>>>>faulty pre-installed systems? And so does Fujitsu-Siemens?
>>>
>>>Yes, fujitsu have and so have Compaq. But what does that prove?
>>
>>It proves its bugs in the software, not "a bad installation". Even if
>>you suggest that it is "poor quality control, and hence the installer's
>>responsibility, and hence a 'bad installation'", its merely
>>misdirection. Mere quibbling about the definition of "bug" in order to
>>insist that the statement "Microsoft software has severe bugs" has not
>>been supported by the example given.
>
>The point made related to faulty pre-installed systems old man, so
>don't try and stretch it into anything else.
Cool, nobody ever called me "old man" before. I think I like it.
Anyway, the points we're making relate to whether faulty pre-installed
systems are different than a software bug or not. I think you may have
come in late, sorry.
>These systems, once reinstalled as per instructions, ran the way they
>should have. What does that prove? Only that people at Fujitsu and
>Compaq make mistakes. How does that "prove it's bugs in software"?
I believe it was replacing Office which proved it was bugs in the
software, not re-installing it, but maybe I'm the one who came in late,
eh?
--
T. Max Devlin
Manager of Research & Educational Services
Managed Services
ELTRAX Technology Services Group
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
-[Opinions expressed are my own; everyone else, including
my employer, has to pay for them, subject to
applicable licensing agreement]-
====== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News ======
http://www.newsfeeds.com - The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World!
======= Over 80,000 Newsgroups = 16 Different Servers! ======
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Dowe Keller)
Crossposted-To: comp.os.linux.misc
Subject: Re: democracy?
Date: 28 May 2000 20:40:21 -0700
Andrew N. McGuire <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>Well, for example you have the majority who believe that as of
>January 1st, we started a new millenium. Then you have those
>of us who are smart enough to realize that there was no year 0.
And I suppose you've never made a fencepost error. :)
>
>You have the majority that believes that Windows is the best OS
>ever to rear its head... Then you have those who know better.
Actually you have those people who don't know what an OS is (and
think it's normal to reboot the computer every hour or so).
Anyone who knows what an OS is, know that DOS/Windows isn't.
>You have the majority of Usenetters who reply to posts jeopardy
>style, then you have the good Usenauts who don't. etc, etc, etc...
I've seem to be seeing less of this lately, or maybe I'm just
reading the wrong (or make that right) ng's.
--
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
---
I wanted to emulate some of my hero's, but I didn't know thier
op-codes.
--dowe
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Crossposted-To: comp.os.linux.misc
Subject: Re: democracy?
Date: Mon, 29 May 2000 04:36:55 +0200
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] (Jim Richardson) wrote:
>
> If money were all that mattered, we'd be reelecting President Perot again...
> or rather his handpicked successor.
> Power matters, money is one manifestation of power, but far from the only one.
It is not personal wealth that is important (Perot is an example of this). It is
having those who control large business and realise that bribing politicians is
in their interest. M$, hopefully, realised this too late (they are always late :-)
> however, your point re: corruption is pretty spot on at the national politics
> level for sure.
If you want to see corruption at work go and work in Thailand. If you are willing
to accept corruption then anything is possible. It is still the nicest country I
have ever lived in. For all its failings the Thai people are a class above all
others.
--
Roy G. Culley Tel: +41 31 342 56 62
Dept. CIT-SEO-SEC-IPE Fax: +41 31 342 04 62
Swisscom Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Key fingerprint = 6B AD 68 79 30 0B C0 5F 16 BC 90 57 35 E9 FC 40
------------------------------
From: "Usenet User" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Don't run Windows.
Date: Mon, 29 May 2000 03:30:12 GMT
In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, mlw <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:
> Here is the issue. It is not an "open" vs "closed" source issue. It is
> an open vs closed "standards" issue. It is quite reasonable to buy
> closed source software which follows open standards.
>
> I have no problems, at all!!!, with people writing code and keeping it
> for themselves and making money off it. If they wish to contribute to
> the open source movement, even better. As long as they follow existing
> standards and do not practice exclusionary tactics, they do what ever
> they want because they will still be doing what is best for the industry
> and their customer.
I'm not so sure this is just about standards. I know that having open
standards is important, absolutley. Closed standards are just a byproduct
of some proprietary software makers wishes to keep users dependent on
them. And I'm sure proprietary software companies can do much good by
supporting open standards as well. But there is a much broader issue too.
GNU/Linux is free(GPL) software as well as most of the software written
for it today(the Kernel, its utilities, Gnome/KDE+apps, etc).
I think the
question is can free software hold its own against proprietary software?
Can it compete, so to speak. Will the masses accept the ideology behind
free software? Will succesful business models develop around it? Or are
succesful business models even necessary for the succes of free software?
You say its quite reasonable to buy closed source software that supports
standards. Why? Did you not before say that Windows was a cage?
Why, because it doesn't support open standards? Or is it rather because
you are tied down to Microsofts will as far as the functionality of your
program(or OS). You are always stuck in a cage, so to speak with
proprietary software. So the fact that you say this is only about standards
is merely you making a choice to ignore the broader implications.
OTOH, I do beleive that open standards are a step in the right direction.
The idea of free software(e.g GPL) is so foreign to people most refuse
to acknowledge that most Linux software is such. I don't know that the
world is ready for it.
------------------------------
From: Roger <roger@.>
Crossposted-To: alt.lang.basic,alt.destroy.microsoft
Subject: Re: QB 4.5 in Win 2000
Date: Mon, 29 May 2000 03:35:00 GMT
On Fri, 26 May 2000 11:50:02 -0400, someone claiming to be T. Max
Devlin wrote:
>I've never understood why Windows seems to care about the details of the
>motherboard, given the whole concept of the PC architecture. Isn't
>that, as well as the hard drive, the purpose of a BIOS?
Says the man whose job it is to know more about the industry than
anyone else.
This would be the case if the BIOS presented a standard interface for
all of it's functions. It doesn't. Things like plug and play and
power management vary non-trivially from one BIOS to the next.
------------------------------
From: "Joe Malloy" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy,comp.os.os2.advocacy,comp.sys.mac.advocacy
Subject: Re: Tholen digest, volume 2451693.933^-00000000000001
Date: Sun, 28 May 2000 23:51:15 -0400
Here's another Tholen digest, full of sound and fury and, as usual,
signifying nothing at all. All this claptrap from Tholen amounts to
[0]
That's right, nothing at all. Thanks for reading!
--
"USB, idiot, stands for Universal Serial Bus. There is no power on the
output socket of any USB port I have ever seen" - Bob Germer
------------------------------
From: "Joe Malloy" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy,comp.os.os2.advocacy,comp.sys.mac.advocacy
Subject: Re: Tholen digest, volume 2451694.938^-.0000000000009
Date: Sun, 28 May 2000 23:51:19 -0400
Another attempt at a digest of me, as successful as every other "digest"
Tholen has tried, which is to say, not at all. Here's everything of value,
summarized for your reading enjoyment:
[0]
That's right, a big round goose egg! Figures, it's Tholen, after all.
Thanks for reading.
--
"USB, idiot, stands for Universal Serial Bus. There is no power on the
output socket of any USB port I have ever seen" - Bob Germer
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Richard Steiner)
Crossposted-To: comp.os.linux.misc
Subject: Re: how to enter a bug report against linux?
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Sun, 28 May 2000 20:24:30 -0500
Here in comp.os.linux.misc, [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Leslie Mikesell)
spake unto us, saying:
>In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
>Richard Steiner <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
>>Thanks, but I'm afraid cvs doesn't run on OS2200. :-)
>
>It is fairly vanilla C code. If it is even close to a
>unix-like environment there is a good chance it would
>compile.
Heh. No. It's a proprietary Unisys mainframe environment which is a
direct descendant of the EXEC 8 system that ran on the UNIVAC 1100 (the
hardware uses 36-bit words and is accessed using block-mode terminals).
It's about as different from a UNIX environment as you can find. :-)
Unisys has written a fairly good C compiler for the environment from
what I've heard, but all of the I/O would have to be rewritten, and it
really isn't worth it from my perspective.
>>I'd use the same tools we use for the application I support if I had
>>need for a real change control facility.
>
>Does that provide cross-platform client/server access?
I don't need cross-platform support -- my code is all written either in
a proprietary Fortran 66 variant (UNIVAC Fieldata Fortran V) or in CALL
(an OS2200-specific macro language from Unisys), and like I said it's a
tiny amount of code.
--
-Rich Steiner >>>---> [EMAIL PROTECTED] >>>---> Bloomington, MN
OS/2 + BeOS + Linux + Solaris + Win95 + WinNT4 + FreeBSD + DOS
+ VMWare + Fusion + vMac + Executor = PC Hobbyist Heaven! :-)
We're lost, but we're making good time.
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Ray)
Crossposted-To: comp.os.linux.misc
Subject: Re: how to enter a bug report against linux?
Date: Mon, 29 May 2000 04:15:12 GMT
On 28 May 2000 18:20:26 -0700, nict@t <nict@t> wrote:
>In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, [EMAIL PROTECTED] says...
>
>>>Well, you were an idiot actually. Nothing wrong with calling an
>>>idiot an idiot. Any one who claims a mailing list can act as a bug
>>>tracking software must be a very stupied person.
>>> ^^^^^^^
>
>>Irony is a wonderful thing.
>>
>
>wow! you found a typo in one word in his response.
^^^
Please!!! Are you actually going to pretend that you and "sonit" are two
different people? How many different names are you going under anyway?
>
>If you are dumb enought to use a hammer to remove a screw. That
>will not make the hammer the right tool.
Maybe you should give up on the stupid analogies and just discuss the issue
at hand.
>
>>One advantage of using a mailing list for
>>bug tracking is that it allows search engines such as deja to tie together
>>the development of various related projects (sane, alsa, apm, etc) in a way
>>that would be difficult with traditional bug tracking systems.
>
>listen moron.
Yet another insult...
> Each bug tracking system has a way to search bugs.
>You can search by priority, by submitter, bu subsystem, by zillion
>other ways.
No kidding.
>The more you open your mouth defending using mailing list as an
>official system for bugs tracking a very large and complex software
>project, the more of an idiot you sound.
And if we were talking about just one project you might have a point. How
exactly do you plan to get the thousands of Linux related projects all
working with the same bug tracking system? If you can't do that then you've
lost functionality over what we have already.
>keep talking.
No, I'm tired of your insulting and fact free posts. Maybe you can get all
of your personalities together and have fun talking to yourself... PLONK
--
Ray
------------------------------
From: SP <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Dating Linux Geeks
Date: Sun, 28 May 2000 21:16:36 -0700
I want to date a Linux geek..... Where do I find one in the SF or LA
area?
http://secret-playmates.com
Thanks :)
Jenna
------------------------------
From: Roger <roger@.>
Crossposted-To: alt.lang.basic,alt.destroy.microsoft
Subject: Re: QB 4.5 in Win 2000
Date: Mon, 29 May 2000 04:25:27 GMT
On Sun, 28 May 2000 02:03:03 +0200, someone claiming to be Giuliano
Colla wrote:
>Arclight wrote:
>> On Fri, 26 May 2000 20:52:29 +0200, Giuliano Colla
>> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>> >Arclight wrote:
>> >> On Thu, 25 May 2000 20:31:29 -0400, "Keith T Williams"
>> >> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>> I got Office 97 the month after it was released as a prize for a
>> competition, and it has the filters on the cd.
>Was an MS competition? That tells a lot.
You see, when Giuliano runs out of ways to advance his point
legitimately, he'll accuse you of having a connection to MS -- the
worst crime imaginable, and one which automatically invalidates
everything you have to say.
At least o MaxWorld.
>> >> There was a filter on the office 97 pro CD which allowed you to write
>> >> real word 95 DOC files.
>> >Now I understand. It was a professional feature. Great! How
>> >could you tell if a file was RTF or DOC? There was another
>> >professional tool? Or you had to hire a sensitive? Doesn't
>> >sound so professional after all.
>> I know they were DOC because they wouldn't load in a program I had
>> which used RTF files.
>OK. You have a program which may write two kind of files, with same
>extension, only one kind is readable by some programs and the other kind
>is readable by other programs. And you don't find anything wrong with
>Microsoft?
No, since if you had saved the file as an RTF, it would have the RTF
extension. A .DOC could have bee neither, which was a bad choice on
MS's fault, which they acknowledged, corrected, and did not repeat
(nor had they done anything like this before.)
>If you can explain why "save as" printing differently from "save" can be
>connected to faulty printer driver then please do so. Try to be
>convincing, because it's not so easy.
Since the only report I've ever heard of this happening is yours, and
your have demonstrated a willingness to play fast and loose with the
truth, how about you prove it actually happened before anyone spends
any time troubleshooting it?
>Till then I'm entitled to affirm that you don't understand absolutely
>anything about software and should refrain to express any opinion on the
>subject.
ATAOILHTN, as they say on a.r
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: sgi workstation with monitor less than $300
Date: Mon, 29 May 2000 04:33:40 GMT
I am selling sgi Indy workstations with the 17" sgi trinitron monitor
at my shop at amazon.com. Check it out:
http://s1.amazon.com/exec/varzea/ts/exchange-glance/Y04Y4176095Y6906226
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Jim Richardson)
Subject: Re: Newsgroup for Gnome?
Date: Sun, 28 May 2000 14:15:22 -0700
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
On Sat, 27 May 2000 21:59:14 GMT,
Greg, in the persona of <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
brought forth the following words...:
>I'm suprised there are no newsgroups for Gnome yet.
>As someone who has to extensivley deal with Windows,
>I'm very impressed with Gnome 1.2. The taskbar is way more
>functional and customizable than Windows'. It makes MS
>"Freedom to Innovate" campaign look just plain silly. If MS
>is innovative, why is the Windows taskbar so drab and rigid
>by comparison?
Um, pan? it's available as part of helix gnome, I highly recommend it
if you like the gui newsreader thing.
--
Jim Richardson
Anarchist, pagan and proud of it
WWW.eskimo.com/~warlock
Linux, because life's too short for a buggy OS.
------------------------------
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