Linux-Advocacy Digest #736, Volume #28 Tue, 29 Aug 00 16:13:06 EDT
Contents:
Re: How low can they go...? ("Simon Cooke")
Re: How low can they go...? ("WYTAW")
Re: Whats a good starting point? ("Ingemar Lundin")
Re: Whats a good starting point?
Re: Whats a good starting point?
Re: "pure" Linux??
Re: businesses are psychopaths ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
Re: How low can they go...?
Re: The Dream World of Linux Zealots (Nathaniel Jay Lee)
Re: [OT] Bush v. Gore on taxes (was: Re: Would a M$ Voluntary Split ...) (Eric
Bennett)
Re: Whats a good starting point? (Tim Kelley)
Re: [OT] Bush v. Gore on taxes (was: Re: Would a M$ Voluntary Split ...) (Eric
Bennett)
Re: Whats a good starting point? (Tim Kelley)
Re: [OT] Bush v. Gore on taxes (was: Re: Would a M$ Voluntary Split ...) (Roberto
Alsina)
Re: Whats a good starting point? (OSguy)
Re: "pure" Linux?? (OSguy)
Re: The Dream World of Linux Zealots (Tim Kelley)
Re: "pure" Linux?? (Roberto Alsina)
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: "Simon Cooke" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
comp.lang.java.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: How low can they go...?
Date: Tue, 29 Aug 2000 11:53:07 -0700
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> On Tue, 29 Aug 2000 19:06:03 +0100, Robert Moir
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >
> ><[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> >news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> >
> >[...]
> >>
> >> Slowly and carefully re-read the message you are responding to...
> >>
> >
> >Sorry, Jedi, if I am making a mistake here perhaps you would be kind
enough
> >to spell it out for me? The poster was claiming that Windows ME costs
$289
>
> 209 pounds is MORE than 289 USD the last time I checked.
What are you on? All the prices he quoted were dollars.
Simon
------------------------------
From: "WYTAW" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
comp.lang.java.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: How low can they go...?
Date: Tue, 29 Aug 2000 14:52:26 -0400
> Zillion of different hardware devices? Would you please enumerate them.
Or
> if you prefer, enumerate all the computer hardware devices ever designed.
> Either way you won't make it to even one-zillion let alone multiple
> zillions.
>From the Marion-Webster on-line dictonary:
Main Entry: zil·lion
Pronunciation: 'zil-y&n
Function: noun
Etymology: z + -illion (as in million)
Date: 1934
: an indeterminately large number <zillions of mosquitoes>
- zil·lionth /-y&n(t)th/ adjective
Compared to the number of hardware devices supported by other operating
systems, the use of the word zillions is perfectly reasonable and accurate
here.
------------------------------
From: "Ingemar Lundin" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Whats a good starting point?
Date: Tue, 29 Aug 2000 19:07:24 GMT
SuSE Linux 7.0 Professional... it ROCKS!!
/IL
> So where does a guy start?
>
> Kevin Wandtke
>
>
>
------------------------------
From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Whats a good starting point?
Date: Tue, 29 Aug 2000 11:25:54 -0700
Reply-To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Nigel Feltham <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:8ogsje$au2gf$[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> >Stay away from RedHat and the others as they are getting to the point of
> being
> >bloated. Do you need 5 text editors? No.
> >
>
>
> They may contain lots of software but they don't force you to install all
5
> text editors - the choice is there though if different editors are
suitable
> for different users. Same with other software supplied which seems to be
> duplicated. For example CD Writers - xtoaster is best for cd copying,
kisocd
> and gtoaster best for mastering new disks.
>
> RPM files seem to be easier to obtain than the debian deb format ,although
> both formats can be made to install on all versions of linux with
additional
> installers.
... or converters, such as rpm2tgz
------------------------------
From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Whats a good starting point?
Date: Tue, 29 Aug 2000 11:54:02 -0700
Reply-To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Greg Horne <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> Corel Linux works very well provided you have the supported video card.
The
> lack of video drivers was my only complaint therefore I installed it on my
> Toshiba 460CDT instead of my Compaq Presario 3555 without a problem.
It is not always the lack of "drivers" that is the problem. My
workstation's video card is fully supported by XFree86 and Linux's vesa
frame buffer and a native frame buffer. The version of XFree86 that is
supplied with the Corel distribution contains the server with the correct
native driver for the card. But! The autodetection at bootup fails to
detect the card as configures the system to work with the card as though it
is just capible of the VGA 640x480x4 mode.
> Stay away from RedHat and the others as they are getting to the point of
being
> bloated. Do you need 5 text editors? No.
Since you are not required to install all the software; this is not an
negative it is a positive, in that you can have you choice of using the
editor or editors that best suit you and your needs.
------------------------------
From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: alt.linux,alt.os.linux
Subject: Re: "pure" Linux??
Date: Tue, 29 Aug 2000 11:22:23 -0700
Reply-To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Nigel Feltham <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:8ogs75$aqqet$[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
>
> Steve Matheson wrote in message <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>...
> >Why not Corel Linux?
> >
>
>
> Corel Linux is limited in its customizability - for example it only has
one
> window manager (based on KDE).
>
> It also has problems on some hardware due to Autoprobing hardware being
the
> only configuration method and if you have a configuration where this hangs
> then there is no manual setup option unlike other linux versions where
> manual config is the default and autoprobe is optional.
>
> It is also uses out of date versions of all included applications and
> utilities so may have problems with the latest hardware or have bugs which
> other versions have had fixed long ago (suse, redhat and mandrake are at
> least 2 versions ahead of corel).
A well as the fact that this thread was started by Alan Murrell when he
wanted to know how to install a "pure" Linux. That woul be a Linux that
would not be dependent on any particular distribution and not have any of
the particular quirks that tend to set the distributions apart from each
other.
I was offering him with a way to do so while using a distribution as a
stepping stone to help him achieve his goal. The Corel distribution would
be to most work for him to convert back into a "pure" Linux, even if he
could get it to install on his machine in the first place.
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Crossposted-To:
comp.infosystems.gis,comp.infosystems.www.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy,gnu.misc.discuss
Subject: Re: businesses are psychopaths
Date: 29 Aug 2000 19:12:06 GMT
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Did a dejanews search to see if I missed somebody replying to me
and decided to toss a few peanuts.
Lots of unmarked chopping.
Richard <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
>Perry Pip wrote:
>1) if a person views other human beings merely as tools to be exploited
> then they are a psychopath (this is the point at which bright people
> will say to themselves "yup, businesses are psychopaths")
>2) corporations view their employees as assets only and nothing matters
> beyond the bottom line.
The difference in behaviour between a psychopath with a long view
and a normal person is minimal. "Good" corporations have a long view.
When they become publicly traded and are pushed by share-holders and
analysts to maximize quarterly returns ... But I would argue that it
is the share-holders who are ultimately being psychopathic by proxy,
not the corporation.
>> Are you developing GPLed software? What are you working on. Where can
>> I get the code?
>It's pre-alpha (and likely to remain in that state for years). And I doubt
>it would interest you since it wouldn't run on *nix. Or Windoze. Or Mac.
VMS, MVS, OS/2, ... what?
>Opening your eyes to reality as it is can be disheartening. Try it if you
>don't believe me (eg, by talking to a Libertarian for more than 5 minutes).
There is a difference between the dogmatic followers of Ayn Rand and
Libertarians in general. Many Libertarians simply believe that
Libertarianism is the best way to run a country, some give generously
to charity, just like some Republicans :-).
Others are selfish assholes, just like some Republicans (and some Democrats
and some ...) :P
I will grant that Randites have a greater tendancy toward selfishness.
Often because they are ignorant. Sort of like 19 y.o. Communists
only in the opposite direction.
>And it wasn't my example, I believe it was Morphis'.
Yup.
>Note that when a business extorts money from a desparate neighbour
>they like
Nit:
A business can not "like" somebody.
>just because they're moving on and won't deal with them again,
>this is called "good business sense".
By certain within the business community.
>explain how math uses the "scientific method"
It doesn't.
>Rather, I define the word
Narrowly, ignoring the fact that humans are irrational and therefore
their self-interest is not definable by Spock.
>and then /verify/ whether people act according to self-interest.
>They do not, and that is a Good Thing.
Robert Morphis
------------------------------
From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
comp.lang.java.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: How low can they go...?
Date: Tue, 29 Aug 2000 12:17:56 -0700
Reply-To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
WYTAW <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:8oh0pn$48k$[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> > Zillion of different hardware devices? Would you please enumerate them.
> Or
> > if you prefer, enumerate all the computer hardware devices ever
designed.
> > Either way you won't make it to even one-zillion let alone multiple
> > zillions.
>
> From the Marion-Webster on-line dictonary:
>
> Main Entry: zil·lion
> Pronunciation: 'zil-y&n
> Function: noun
> Etymology: z + -illion (as in million)
> Date: 1934
> : an indeterminately large number <zillions of mosquitoes>
> - zil·lionth /-y&n(t)th/ adjective
>
> Compared to the number of hardware devices supported by other operating
> systems, the use of the word zillions is perfectly reasonable and accurate
> here.
Are you taking into account all the hardware devices that can be used by
Linux on all of its supported platforms? I also hope you are not counting
all the PC hardware that current Windows can no longer operate with.
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Nathaniel Jay Lee)
Subject: Re: The Dream World of Linux Zealots
Date: Tue, 29 Aug 2000 19:29:09 GMT
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
D. Spider <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> spoke thusly:
>It appears that on Mon, 14 Aug 2000 12:32:33 -0500, in
>comp.os.linux.advocacy Nathaniel Jay Lee <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
>>T. Max Devlin wrote:
>>> That's OK. I don't really mind insults hardly at all. Particularly
>>> ones like that, which strike me as quite humorous (more condescension,
>>> as I chuckle while someone calls me a fuck-wit.) "Thanks for the
>>> memories bitch?" I love it. ;-)
>>>
>>> No, its the ad hominem attacks I can't stand. Insults are no problem.
>>>
>>> Thanks for your time. Hope it helps. Dipshit. ;-)
>>>
>>> [I'm laughing with you, Nate, I hope, not at you; honest. I promise.]
>>>
>>
>>Question for the entire group:
>>
>>Has anyone ever wondered why they make it possible for you to ignore
>>someone on usenet, yet they don't make it possible for you to make
>>someone ignore you?
>
>
>"They" don't make this so (whoever they are) - YOU make it so by
>trying to use usenet without acquiring an appropriate tool to do so
>with.
>
Thank you for adding two more insults on after the fact.
If you followed the discussions to their conclusion that I
have mentioned this in you would see that I have switched
newsreaders (and it was Aaron Kulkis's inability to deal
with reality which drove me to it) so that I can *plonk*
people.
And what I've read of your crap is enough to earn you spot
#2. *PLONK*
--
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Nathaniel Jay Lee
------------------------------
From: Eric Bennett <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy,comp.os.os2.advocacy,comp.sys.mac.advocacy
Subject: Re: [OT] Bush v. Gore on taxes (was: Re: Would a M$ Voluntary Split ...)
Date: Tue, 29 Aug 2000 15:43:30 -0400
"Aaron R. Kulkis" wrote:
>
> C Lund wrote:
> >
> > In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, Eric Bennett <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >
> > > That's because of the particular issues we've been discussing. Try
> > > asking him about censorship and he'll probably sound like a Democrat.
> >
> > I see..
> >
> > Which ng are you two posting from anyway? I'm on CSMA. I'm not sure what
>
> No wonder you write like a hand-wringing pansy.
LOL. And where are *you* posting from? Given that you claim to be a
Unix admin, I'd suspect it's cola. And if you want to issue stereotype
edicts, I'd bet you'll find a lot more left wingers over there in
Richard Stallman's corner than you'll find in Steve Jobs's corner.
--
Eric Bennett ( [EMAIL PROTECTED] ; http://www.pobox.com/~ericb )
Field of Biochemistry, Cornell University
I have no idea what you're talking about when you say "ask".
- Bill Gates, in his deposition in US v. Microsoft
------------------------------
From: Tim Kelley <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Whats a good starting point?
Date: Tue, 29 Aug 2000 14:39:48 -0500
Kevin Wandtke wrote:
Internet, email,
> burn CD's,finance (quicken) , taxes, scanning and basic office suite. If I
> could handle my wife's program that creates cross stitch patterns I'd dump
> Win98 on the Compaq in a heartbeat... well at least re-configure it as the
> smaller of a dual boot system maybe.
>
> So where does a guy start?
I would suggest Red Hat (6.2) and then put Helix GNOME on it
(even if you use KDE GNOME comes with many apps you will want).
Red Hat is rather easy and the 6.2 release is very good.
Use KDE or GNOME.
Keep in mind kernel 2.4, KDE 2.0/KOffice and XFree 4.0 represent
major advancements in usability and hardware support and all
three should be appearing in distributions before the end of this
year.
--
Tim Kelley
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
------------------------------
From: Eric Bennett <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy,comp.os.os2.advocacy,comp.sys.mac.advocacy
Subject: Re: [OT] Bush v. Gore on taxes (was: Re: Would a M$ Voluntary Split ...)
Date: Tue, 29 Aug 2000 15:46:33 -0400
Donovan Rebbechi wrote:
>
> On Tue, 29 Aug 2000 16:05:02 GMT, Roberto Alsina wrote:
>
> >> 1) uses its influence to oppose the privatization of public education
> >in
> >> the United States
> >>
> >> http://www.nea.org/aboutnea/faq.html
> >
> >Position that could be taken because they would like universal
> >availability of education...
>
> So they're "communists" ! This is PROOF !
Microsoft would like universal use of Windows in all the schools.
Therefore, Microsoft is communist. QED.
--
Eric Bennett ( [EMAIL PROTECTED] ; http://www.pobox.com/~ericb )
Field of Biochemistry, Cornell University
I have no idea what you're talking about when you say "ask".
- Bill Gates, in his deposition in US v. Microsoft
------------------------------
From: Tim Kelley <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Whats a good starting point?
Date: Tue, 29 Aug 2000 14:42:32 -0500
Greg Horne wrote:
> Stay away from RedHat and the others as they are getting to the point of being
> bloated. Do you need 5 text editors? No.
5? You mean 25 at least!
C'mon you can uninstall whatever you want. Debian comes with a
ton of reduntant applications as well. It's all good, you get to
choose.
--
Tim Kelley
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
------------------------------
From: Roberto Alsina <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy,comp.os.os2.advocacy,comp.sys.mac.advocacy
Subject: Re: [OT] Bush v. Gore on taxes (was: Re: Would a M$ Voluntary Split ...)
Date: Tue, 29 Aug 2000 16:56:22 -0300
Eric Bennett escribió:
>
> Donovan Rebbechi wrote:
> >
> > On Tue, 29 Aug 2000 16:05:02 GMT, Roberto Alsina wrote:
> >
> > >> 1) uses its influence to oppose the privatization of public education
> > >in
> > >> the United States
> > >>
> > >> http://www.nea.org/aboutnea/faq.html
> > >
> > >Position that could be taken because they would like universal
> > >availability of education...
> >
> > So they're "communists" ! This is PROOF !
>
> Microsoft would like universal use of Windows in all the schools.
> Therefore, Microsoft is communist. QED.
So THAT's why Aaron allows himself to be seen in company of us
linux lefties! The lesser evil! ;-)
--
Roberto Alsina
------------------------------
From: OSguy <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Whats a good starting point?
Date: Tue, 29 Aug 2000 13:44:44 -0500
Greg Horne wrote:
> <snip>
> Both are based on Debian which means the core system is stable which unlike
> Microsoft Windows will keep you smiling.
Debian is an excellent distribution, so I would pose the question, If it matters
to you to run a Debian based system, why not run Debian itself? I know you can
trust how Debian packages their distro....I don't know that you can trust Corel
Linux that is "based" on Debian.
> Stay away from RedHat and the others as they are getting to the point of being
> bloated.
I've never had any trouble with Redhat or Mandrake installing or not installing
exactly what I've specified. And I've found Slackware to be very precise as to
what I install. Based on complaints I've read about Corel, I'd stay away from
Corel Linux.
> Do you need 5 text editors? No.
Is it OK if I select which one of the 5 text editors I want instead of having to
accept the one editor the distribution has limited me to?
------------------------------
From: OSguy <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: alt.linux,alt.os.linux
Subject: Re: "pure" Linux??
Date: Tue, 29 Aug 2000 13:53:11 -0500
Excuse me while I reply to mjcr (his original post didn't show up on my
newsgroups)....
Steve Matheson wrote:
>
> [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>
> Also you
> > might also stay away from Mandrake since they seem to have modified the
> > kernel.
I don't buy that Mandrake made an unapproved modification to the Linux kernel
after being approved by Linus or Alan Cox (especially a stable Linux Kernel
that Mandrake is based on). I'd believe that they may have modified other
scripts or supporting packages (ie-Run Levels).
Please give specifics of these modifications that are not or will not be in
the present or future approved Linux kernels.
------------------------------
From: Tim Kelley <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: The Dream World of Linux Zealots
Date: Tue, 29 Aug 2000 14:47:04 -0500
"D. Spider" wrote:
>
> It appears that on Mon, 07 Aug 2000 10:50:10 -0500, in
> comp.os.linux.advocacy Nathaniel Jay Lee <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >I won't switch newsreaders just to *PLONK* you, although I may consider
> >it in the future if you continue to harras me and try to point out my
> >shortcommings (and then deny your attempts as you have here). But from
> >this point forward, I will ignore you.
>
> While I certainly don't want to encourage you to plonk anyone
> unnecessarily, you really should get a real newsreader.
> Mozilla/Netscape is not adequate for usenet on any platform - you
> might as well be using Outhouse Express.
Netscape is fine for casual newsreading, I can't take usenet very
seriously anyway. Pan is not really usable at all at this point
IMO, but it is looking rather nice.
Mozilla is actually very good for news (just still buggy and slow
at this point)
--
Tim Kelley
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
------------------------------
From: Roberto Alsina <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: alt.linux,alt.os.linux
Subject: Re: "pure" Linux??
Date: Tue, 29 Aug 2000 17:03:30 -0300
OSguy escribió:
>
> Excuse me while I reply to mjcr (his original post didn't show up on my
> newsgroups)....
>
> Steve Matheson wrote:
>
> >
> > [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> >
> > Also you
> > > might also stay away from Mandrake since they seem to have modified the
> > > kernel.
>
> I don't buy that Mandrake made an unapproved modification to the Linux kernel
> after being approved by Linus or Alan Cox (especially a stable Linux Kernel
> that Mandrake is based on).
No distribution (except maybe Debian) uses a
as-released-by-linus-or-alan
kernel.
To verify, just get the SRPM or whatever source package.
For example, most latest distributions include at least the USB
support backport.
Some of the newer ones include the ReiserFS support patch.
The kernels as released by Linus or Alan are simply not the
best for general use.
So, this is not a reason to choose distributions.
> I'd believe that they may have modified other
> scripts or supporting packages (ie-Run Levels).
The boot scripts are usually totally different for each
distribution.
> Please give specifics of these modifications that are not or will not be in
> the present or future approved Linux kernels.
Linux is free software. There is a "standard" kernel, but noone has
to follow it, and noone does.
--
Roberto Alsina
------------------------------
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