Linux-Advocacy Digest #953, Volume #26 Wed, 7 Jun 00 12:13:08 EDT
Contents:
Re: Canada invites Microsoft north (Bob Germer)
Re: Canada invites Microsoft north (Bob Germer)
Re: Canada invites Microsoft north (Bob Germer)
Re: Canada invites Microsoft north (Bob Germer)
Re: Canada invites Microsoft north (Bob Germer)
Re: Canada invites Microsoft north (Bob Germer)
Re: Canada invites Microsoft north (Bob Germer)
Re: The sad Linux story (JEDIDIAH)
Re: Canada invites Microsoft north (Bob Germer)
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Crossposted-To:
comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.os.os2.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
From: Bob Germer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Canada invites Microsoft north
Date: Wed, 07 Jun 2000 15:57:48 GMT
On 06/06/2000 at 09:22 AM,
Jack Troughton <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> said:
> I guess your argument works if you only consider whites as
> Americans, and the rest as riff-raff sub-citizens. Please note that in
> Canada the life span is not pulled down by those uppity inconvenient
> black and asian people. That's because our goal is to actually provide
> health care for everyone, not to make the most bucks possible.
The only thing I was pointing out is that minorities make up a much, much
larger percentage of our population than of Canada's. If a country has 90%
whites and 10% minorities and whites have a 70 year average life span and
minorities have a 60 year life span, then the national average is 69.
However, if the country is 70% white and 30% minority, then the average is
67.
> You're making your country look better and better all the time, Bob.
And you are making all Canadians look bad by deliberately misstating what
I wrote. You twisted an absolutely neutral statistic into a totally false
accusation of racism. You are a disgrace.
Look at the facts. In our military, the most thoroughly integrated large
body in the United States. Everyone gets the identical health care. Every
member gets an annual physical. Every member is required to maintain a
level of physical fitness far in excess of the average American or
Canadian. Yet the average life span of Black members, enlisted or
commissioned is shorter than that of white members. The percentage of
Blacks among those who were forced to retire because of physical
disabilities is higher than that for Whites.
No reputable physician, civilian or military, white or minority will deny
that non-whites a have higher incidence of high blood pressure than
whites, a higher rate and lower average age of onset of heart problems, a
higher rate of diabetes. Part of this is cultural, part genetic. But by
looking at the military over the last 35 years, one clearly sees that the
cultural and economic factors are equal. In the military, everyone is paid
according to the same scale, everyone gets the same food, everyone gets
the same level and skill level of health care. Perhaps, Blacks and
Hispanics in the military eat more junk food off base than Whites.
However, the percentage of Whites at the McDonalds at Fort Dix is much
higher on most days than the percentage of Whites in the Army.
According to life insurance actuarial tables, Black executives have a
shorter life span than White executives. The same is true of
professionals. It was true of airline pilots although the percentage of
that group of minorities is much smaller than the population at large and
too small to be really statistically significant. Whites are more likely
to contract many forms of cancer than Blacks although prostate cancer is
more prevalent in the Black community.
--
==============================================================================================
Bob Germer from Mount Holly, NJ - E-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Proudly running OS/2 Warp 4.0 w/ FixPack 12
MR/2 Ice 2.19zf Registration Number 67
=============================================================================================
------------------------------
Crossposted-To:
comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.os.os2.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
From: Bob Germer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Canada invites Microsoft north
Date: Wed, 07 Jun 2000 15:57:49 GMT
On 06/06/2000 at 08:10 AM,
Mayor <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> said:
> >> Was it 60 minutes that did that "news" bit about GM truck
> >> exploding in side impacts? where they set off incendiaries
> >> under the tank, after having overfilled the tank and leaving
> >> the cap off, then filmed the ensuing fire and explosions
> >> as "proof"?
> >
> >Among several other absolutely false reports.
> Actually that was NBC's news division. It was aired on
> their 'Dateline' program.
I stand corrected. I was sure it was CBS. Doesn't matter. They are clones.
--
==============================================================================================
Bob Germer from Mount Holly, NJ - E-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Proudly running OS/2 Warp 4.0 w/ FixPack 12
MR/2 Ice 2.19zf Registration Number 67
=============================================================================================
------------------------------
Crossposted-To:
comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.os.os2.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
From: Bob Germer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Canada invites Microsoft north
Date: Wed, 07 Jun 2000 15:57:46 GMT
On 06/06/2000 at 09:57 AM,
John Wiltshire <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> said:
> On Mon, 05 Jun 2000 23:09:02 +0100, [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> (C Lund) wrote:
> >In article <393b879b$2$obot$[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, Bob Germer
> ><[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >
> >> If the MAC OS was superior to those available for the Intel platform, it
> >> would be dominant. It was rejected by the marketplace.
> >
> >And once again a wintroll makes the error of assuming popularity =
> >quality. An infiriour product with a lower price and supiriour marketing
> >can easily outsell the supiriour product. Particularily when people who've
> >tried Windows think the mac is just a variation of the same theme.
> Actually, Bob's an OS/2 fan. That's why most of us are having problems
> figuring out his statement.
I didn't write the above. Get your attributions straight. I only wrote the
first paragraph with the triple chevrons. Someone else replied with the
one with double chevrons. You wrote the paragraph with the single chevron.
If memory serves, it was a Norwegian who wrote the second paragraph. At
least the author used the same mispellings of superior and inferior as
someone claiming residence in Norway.
--
==============================================================================================
Bob Germer from Mount Holly, NJ - E-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Proudly running OS/2 Warp 4.0 w/ FixPack 12
MR/2 Ice 2.19zf Registration Number 67
=============================================================================================
------------------------------
Crossposted-To:
comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.os.os2.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
From: Bob Germer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Canada invites Microsoft north
Date: Wed, 07 Jun 2000 15:57:51 GMT
On 06/06/2000 at 04:11 AM,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] (Loren Petrich) said:
> >Ah, the National Enquirer of TV. If you watch that tripe, you believe
> >anything. CBS is a shill for all so-called liberal causes.
> CBS is a capitalist organization. Yes, *CAPITALIST*. So why hasn't CBS
> gone broke???
Were it just a TV network, it likely would be down the tubes by now.
> >> Socialized medicine means everybody gets free (or reasonably cheap)
> >> medication. That means everybody can afford medication, and everybody
> >There is not such thing as free food, free medication, free medical care.
> >Someone has to pay for it. In Canada it is the wage earners who are taxed
> >beyond reason, ...
> However, the military and the police are financed in EXACTLY the same
> fashion, and who wants to abolish government military and police forces?
We do not have a national police force except on Federal property. So that
analogy goes out the window. The military is an obligation of the
government, health care is not and should not be.
> Furthermore, if one did not pay taxes for medicine, one would have to
> pay bills, so expecting automatic savings is folly.
It is a whole lot cheaper to pay for something yourself than to have the
government pay for it at an added cost of 80% or more for bureaucratic
overhead.
> I think that a Canada-style system of national health insurance would
> be good, especially if it could be disguised so as to be ideologically
> acceptable to the "private sector good, public sector bad" ideologues.
Any system that has to send patients to a foreign country for urgent care
and tests is totally inadequate. But that is what Canada is forced to do.
> "Socialized medicine" conjures up images of one big HMO,
> something like the ultimate model for HMO's, Britain's National Health
> Service.
The British system is a failure as is the Canadian system. Britain had to
modify its system so that those who could afford it could get treatment
outside the National Health System. Only the poor in Britain get
sub-standard care. Canada has to send busloads of people here which they
admit because of the inadequacies of its system.
> >We have choices as to whom we pay for natural gas to heat our homes,
> >electricity, telephone service. Canadians do not.
> I've never had that choice, however, except for long-distance phone
> service. And I've lived in the US for essentially all of my life.
Well, I am willing to bet that you live in a state with a liberal
controlled legislature and governor's office. Here in NJ, we have choices
of electrical supplier, local telephone provider, natural gas provider.
Integrated monopolies such as Public Service Electric and Gas have been
forced to break up into generation and distribution divisions. The state
regulates the rates for distribution. The generation side must compete
with at least 7 other companies at present with more coming on stream.
Bell Atlantic has at least three current competitors for local service and
several dozen for toll calls within the home LATA. It too has to split
service from the cost of maintaining the lines. Moreover, cable TV
companies are experimenting with providing local and long distance phone
service over existing cable lines.
And everywhere I've travelled, I've seen advertisements for cellular and
satellite phone services which are cost competitive for the average
homeowner where both husband and wife are employed outside the house and
there are no teenagers in residence.
Pennsylvania has the same choices. So does Delaware. Hmmm. Republican
controlled legislatures and executives in both PA and NJ.
Bad, bad, bad for consumers. (That last is irony, ridicule of Liberals and
Democrats, BTW)
> >And you consider yourself free? You consider living with Big Brother
> >dictating where your kids attend school, what doctor you can see and when,
> >from whom you get telephone, electric, gas service better than having
> >multiple choices of competing suppliers better?
> Or multiple choices of military and police forces? Of judicial
> systems? Of roads?
Well, here in New Jersey we have a local police force, a county police
force, a state police force. If I have an emergency, the nearest one is
dispatched via a call to 911. In rural areas there may not be a local
force. In some big cities, the state police presence is rather limited.
Pennsylvania has the same setup. So does Delaware. So does Maryland. So
does New York. So does North Carolina. So does South Carolina. So does
Virginia.
Roads? I can travel from Philadelphia to New York on local roads, state
highways, Interstate highways, and private toll highways. Taxpayer dollars
do not pay for constrution, maintenance, policing, etc. of the New Jersey
Turnpike, the Atlantic City Expressway, bridges between Philadelphia and
New Jersey or the tunnels and bridges from New Jersey to New York City.
All those are paid entirely out of tolls which are user fees. The same is
true of the Garden State Parkway and the Atlantic City Expressway. Each of
the entities which own those roads reimburse the State for the cost of
State Police patrols, BTW. The same is true of the Pennsylvania Turnpike.
Neither the state or county maintains most of the roads on which I drive
every day. They are either private streets maintained by the homeowners or
local township streets maintained solely by local residents via property
taxes.
And every citizen of the US has recourse to at LEAST two entirely separate
court systems. Here in New Jersey, depending on the matter at issue, there
are four distinct systems, three public and one private.
The same is true of Pennsylvania with four systems. I don't know about
Delaware.
--
==============================================================================================
Bob Germer from Mount Holly, NJ - E-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Proudly running OS/2 Warp 4.0 w/ FixPack 12
MR/2 Ice 2.19zf Registration Number 67
=============================================================================================
------------------------------
Crossposted-To:
comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.os.os2.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
From: Bob Germer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Canada invites Microsoft north
Date: Wed, 07 Jun 2000 15:57:52 GMT
On 06/06/2000 at 02:02 AM,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] said:
> [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Jim Richardson) said:
> >Was it 60 minutes that did that "news" bit about GM truck exploding in side
> >impacts? where they set off incendiaries under the tank, after having
> >overfilled the tank and leaving the cap off, then filmed the ensuing fire and
> >explosions as "proof"?
> Is the word "proof" your word or theirs?
Oh it was CBS' claim. They were sued by General Motors and forced to admit
they rigged the test and pay damages to GM.
They also settled out of court with Olive Beech for a hatchet job they did
on Beech Bonanzas.
--
==============================================================================================
Bob Germer from Mount Holly, NJ - E-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Proudly running OS/2 Warp 4.0 w/ FixPack 12
MR/2 Ice 2.19zf Registration Number 67
=============================================================================================
------------------------------
Crossposted-To:
comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.os.os2.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
From: Bob Germer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Canada invites Microsoft north
Date: Wed, 07 Jun 2000 15:57:43 GMT
On 06/06/2000 at 10:13 AM,
Mayor <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> said:
> > Nowhere have I denied that Canadians were not also
> >British subjects. Indeed, Canadians continued to be British
> >subjects even after formal Confederation (the act that made
> >Canada a nation in the first place). Really - I don't think
> >that this is a very hard concept to grasp.
> >
> >Brad BARCLAY
> The trouble comes in with the claim that it was Canadian forces who
> sacked Washington. That wasn't done by a force from Canada. It was done
> by British Marines-professional soldiers. I believe they even sailed
> directly from Great Britain though they may have been based in Canada
> the memory is a bit foggy.
According to my memory of Naval History last studied in 1957, they sailed
from the Bahamas into Chesapeake Bay and retired to the same area.
--
==============================================================================================
Bob Germer from Mount Holly, NJ - E-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Proudly running OS/2 Warp 4.0 w/ FixPack 12
MR/2 Ice 2.19zf Registration Number 67
=============================================================================================
------------------------------
Crossposted-To:
comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.os.os2.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
From: Bob Germer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Canada invites Microsoft north
Date: Wed, 07 Jun 2000 15:57:45 GMT
On 06/06/2000 at 09:59 AM,
John Wiltshire <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> said:
> >On 06/04/2000 at 12:02 PM,
> > John Wiltshire <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> said:
> >
> >> You'll find the 386/486 machines probably had Win3.x or Win95 licenses
> >> and not Win98 licenses. MS hasn't required a license with each
> >> processor since about 1995 when they got told they weren't allowed to do
> >> that, so the licenses you are talking about are definitely not Win98 and
> >> probably not Win95 either.
> >
> >Bullshit. It is only in the last few months that it was possible to
> >purchase an Intel based PC without Windows 9x or NT from ANY of the
> >significant OEM's in the US market. IBM, Dell, Compaq, Gateway, HP, etc.
> >all required you to purchase Win9x (or NT) of you didn't get the machine.
> >If you claim otherwise, you are a liar.
> I thought IBM sold machines with only OS/2 if you wanted it?
Only high end desktops and servers. All notebooks, Aptivas, and lower end
desktops come only with 9x.
> I know you've been able to buy Dell machines with only Linux for about
> 18 months now.
No, more like 18 weeks here in the US.
> The last time I bought Windows with a machine here (Oz) was 1993 -
> used upgrades since then, but then again I avoid the major OEMs and
> prefer to build the machines myself.
Most large and medium sized companies do not roll their own. They buy from
recognized retailers and only name brand equipment. And that only comes
together with Win9x for the past 6 years or more until very, very
recently. And Dell only sells servers with Linux, not desktops in the US
at least at present.
--
==============================================================================================
Bob Germer from Mount Holly, NJ - E-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Proudly running OS/2 Warp 4.0 w/ FixPack 12
MR/2 Ice 2.19zf Registration Number 67
=============================================================================================
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (JEDIDIAH)
Subject: Re: The sad Linux story
Date: Wed, 07 Jun 2000 16:00:19 GMT
On Wed, 07 Jun 2000 04:44:09 GMT, The Ghost In The Machine
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>In comp.os.linux.advocacy, JEDIDIAH <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>wrote on Tue, 06 Jun 2000 17:44:30 GMT
><[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
>>On Tue, 06 Jun 2000 02:48:50 GMT, [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>><[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>>>In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
>>> [EMAIL PROTECTED] (The Ghost In The Machine) wrote:
>>>
>>>> Of course, Windows 95 probably doesn't do much better, and the
>>>> "Win95 Blue Screen Of Death" is a bit more jarring than a
>>>> console message.... :-) (Windows NT's BSOD is even more
>>>intimidating.)
>>>>
>>>> It tries hard, I'll give it that. :-)
>>>
>>>As always, I can count on the Linux zealots to turn the mention of a
>>>serious design flaw in Linux into the Battle of the Toy Computers (tm).
>>
>> Well, excuse us for actually want to do useful work with
>> our computers. While it might be nice to bask in the
>> ethereal virtues of DCL, the rest of us would actually like
>> to do interesting things with our computers.
>
>True, but DCL is extremely powerful. (Of course, VMS processes
>tended to be very heavy, at least as of VMS 3.7, which was aeons ago. [*]
>Perhaps they've improved since then. I have my doubts. :-) )
>
>I for one find Linux more approachable, although VMS presumably
>has a far better help system. Perhaps it's because I gave up
>using VMS in the late 80's through a variety of factors (one of them
>being the issue that my new employer at the time didn't have any :-) ).
I realize explicitly that Unix merely meets my threshold of
"good enough" in terms of robustness while not being too
terribly inconvenient in other ways.
>
>>
>>>
>>>Don't you "get it"? Blathering about how much better Winux is than
>>>Lindows is not interesting. Why you are so completely obsessed with the
>>>issue, I cannot understand.
>>
>> ...because noone cares about how robust VMS is, not even
>> coporate CTO's. You've failed to grasp the notion of:
>> "the right tool for the right job". As a robust hobbyists
>> machine, VMS just doesn't cut it.
>
>I do wonder what a MicroVAX costs these days. And I would think that
>a CTO would be *very* interested in robustness. However, it's
However, OS licencing might still be an issue as well as
the cost of the hardware sufficient to replace a commercial
Unix solution, or even an x86 based 'farm'.
>not clear that he'd be all interested in whether that robustness
>is because of the operating system, the hardware, the applications,
>the network, or a combination of all four.
>
>Not being a CTO, of course, I can only guess. :-)
The final equation would come down to an issue of money most likely.
Corporate systems are typically as robust as the management is willing
to spend on the process. Unix typically meets the threshold of
"good enough" and NT might even manage that. The "extra 9's" become
superfluous or prohibitively expensive.
--
|||
/ | \
Need sane PPP docs? Try penguin.lvcm.com.
------------------------------
Crossposted-To:
comp.os.os2.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy,comp.sys.mac.advocacy
From: Bob Germer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Canada invites Microsoft north
Date: Wed, 07 Jun 2000 16:04:52 GMT
On 06/07/2000 at 10:43 AM,
Jack Troughton <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> said:
> What, do you think Tourism Canada is going to have anything to say about
> Brad Barclay's opinion? Or Mike Stephen's? They have
> absolutely no power over anything that they choose to say or do. The
> police and the courts might have something to say about what they do,
> but only if they commit a crime. Having and expressing an opinion is not
> a crime in Canada.
> You really are out of touch on this Bob.
Unfortunately, you missed the sarcasm.
--
==============================================================================================
Bob Germer from Mount Holly, NJ - E-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Proudly running OS/2 Warp 4.0 w/ FixPack 12
MR/2 Ice 2.19zf Registration Number 67
=============================================================================================
------------------------------
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