Linux-Advocacy Digest #953, Volume #32 Tue, 20 Mar 01 23:13:02 EST
Contents:
Re: US Navy carrier to adopt Win2k infrastructure ("Aaron R. Kulkis")
Re: US Navy carrier to adopt Win2k infrastructure ("Chad Myers")
Re: Unix/Linux Professionalism ("Aaron R. Kulkis")
Re: German armed forces ban MS software <gloat!> ("Aaron R. Kulkis")
Re: German armed forces ban MS software <gloat!> ("Aaron R. Kulkis")
Re: What is user friendly? (Salvador Peralta)
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: "Aaron R. Kulkis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: US Navy carrier to adopt Win2k infrastructure
Date: Tue, 20 Mar 2001 22:43:43 -0500
Jan Johanson, the Microsoft-paid shill lied:
>
> "mlw" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> > Jan Johanson wrote:
> > >
> > > "mlw" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> > > news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> > > > Jon Johanson wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > "mlw" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> > > > > news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> > > > > > Andy Walker wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > "Blue Screen of Death" has a whole new meaning.
> > > > >
> > > > > Fortunately that's not an issue with any properly configured system,
> > > > > especially not a W2K system hardened for military use - silly boy...
> > > >
> > > > Look who is being silly. According to Microsoft's sponsored tests,
> by
> > > > NSTL, Windows 2000 has a MTTF of 2839. That's 118 days. So, just
> before
> > > > they enter battle, they should reboot. Or they should never be out at
> > > > sea for more than three months. Give me a break.
> > >
> > > that's for a release candidate version of the OS using drivers made
> before
> > > the product was finalized. The final version of the product, updated to
> > > service pack 1 and using WHQL drivers doesn't crash. We've never seen a
> blue
> > > screen. I personally consider it bullshit created by unix losers envious
> of
> > > how easily windows smokes unix's CLI butt
> >
> > Ahh, yes, here we go again. "This version (service pack) of [NT, 2K,
> Windows,
> > etc.] is stable, unlike the previous version."
>
> Not at all true. What's so unusual about requiring a final release version
> of some product? Are you that used to running beta software that you prefer
> it over fleeting releases before more point betas are released?
Same song, different day.
How many YEARS have we been hearing this same song?
When is Microsoft actually going to DELIVER on a single one of their promises?
They *STILL* haven't figured out how to make a multi-user system.
Fuck, I wrote a multi-user, multi-tasking operating system in FOUR WEEKS
BY MYSELF on a primitive 8-bit Motorola 6809.
Are you saying with all of those BILLIONS OF DOLLARS IN ANNUAL REVENUE
that this is faaaaaaaaar too difficult a task for the boys in Redmond?
Or are they sandbagging the hardware by DELIBERATELY keeping
technology away from you that would allow you to get more work
done with less equipment.
>
> Go post this stuff to a thread
> > where people will believe it. (hint, that's not here.)
>
> No, it's in technical forums where real people use it all the time and know
> what I'm talking about.
>
> >A good number of the
> > machines in the study were the released version.
>
> Wrong.
>
> >
> > I don't think anyone care's what you "personally consider."
>
> Only those that use it daily nod their head knowing I'm right.
You are a shithead.
--
Aaron R. Kulkis
Unix Systems Engineer
DNRC Minister of all I survey
ICQ # 3056642
K: Truth in advertising:
Left Wing Extremists Charles Schumer and Donna Shelala,
Black Seperatist Anti-Semite Louis Farrakan,
Special Interest Sierra Club,
Anarchist Members of the ACLU
Left Wing Corporate Extremist Ted Turner
The Drunken Woman Killer Ted Kennedy
Grass Roots Pro-Gun movement,
J: Other knee_jerk reactionaries: billh, david casey, redc1c4,
The retarded sisters: Raunchy (rauni) and Anencephielle (Enielle),
also known as old hags who've hit the wall....
I: Loren Petrich's 2-week stubborn refusal to respond to the
challenge to describe even one philosophical difference
between himself and the communists demonstrates that, in fact,
Loren Petrich is a COMMUNIST ***hole
H: "Having found not one single carbon monoxide leak on the entire
premises, it is my belief, and Willard concurs, that the reason
you folks feel listless and disoriented is simply because
you are lazy, stupid people"
G: Knackos...you're a retard.
F: Unit_4's "Kook hunt" reminds me of "Jimmy Baker's" harangues against
adultery while concurrently committing adultery with Tammy Hahn.
E: Jet is not worthy of the time to compose a response until
her behavior improves.
D: Jet Silverman now follows me from newgroup to newsgroup
...despite (C) above.
C: Jet Silverman claims to have killfiled me.
B: Jet Silverman plays the fool and spews out nonsense as a
method of sidetracking discussions which are headed in a
direction that she doesn't like.
A: The wise man is mocked by fools.
------------------------------
From: "Chad Myers" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: US Navy carrier to adopt Win2k infrastructure
Date: Wed, 21 Mar 2001 03:29:13 GMT
"mlw" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> Jan Johanson wrote:
> >
> > "mlw" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> > news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> > > Jan Johanson wrote:
> > Not true - I don't know anyone who's had any problems with W2K beyond what
> > any ordinary user might with any OS. Damn stable is what EVERYONE reports.
>
> lol, it get funnier every time. Damn!! You don't expect anyone to believe your
> crap, do you?
I haven't heard any reports otherwise, except for be-FUDed Linux dorks
like you who like to spread lies and mistruths.
What reports have you been seeing that show Win2K is unstable or has
lots of BSOD's?
-c
------------------------------
From: "Aaron R. Kulkis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
alt.destroy.microsoft,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: Unix/Linux Professionalism
Date: Tue, 20 Mar 2001 22:48:04 -0500
"." wrote:
>
> > > The world must be at least 80% dumbass.
> >
> > And encouraging the survival of dumbasses is beneficial how, exactly?
>
> I'm not encouraging it. The dumbasses continue to prosper and expand,
> despite my best attempts to thwart them.
>
Unfortunately, certain political factions in the 1930's and 1940's
gave eugenics a bad name.
Now we have a society that thinks it's a virtue to subsidize the
reproductive efforts of those who, quite seriously, are not fit.
> Pretty soon, they'll start making operating systems that break all the time,
> and due to the spread of their kind to positions of power (such as
> management), it will be amazingly successful.
>
> I'm pretty sure I stated my opinions on clueless users... that they can be
> trained to use any system to get their work done.
> Clueless user != reason to give them windows.
Precisely.
Users will use whatever they are plopped down in front of.
> Another problem here is that clueless user != stupid user either. Clueless
Precisely. the argument against Unix is that Users are unable to learn.
Ignorance is not knowing....which is remedied quite easily.
On the other hand...Windows software bugs....cannot be remedied
at any price.
> user - user without knowledge of the system. Stupid user - monkey that
> couldn't be trained to use a command line because it's beyond their mental
> capacity.
--
Aaron R. Kulkis
Unix Systems Engineer
DNRC Minister of all I survey
ICQ # 3056642
K: Truth in advertising:
Left Wing Extremists Charles Schumer and Donna Shelala,
Black Seperatist Anti-Semite Louis Farrakan,
Special Interest Sierra Club,
Anarchist Members of the ACLU
Left Wing Corporate Extremist Ted Turner
The Drunken Woman Killer Ted Kennedy
Grass Roots Pro-Gun movement,
J: Other knee_jerk reactionaries: billh, david casey, redc1c4,
The retarded sisters: Raunchy (rauni) and Anencephielle (Enielle),
also known as old hags who've hit the wall....
I: Loren Petrich's 2-week stubborn refusal to respond to the
challenge to describe even one philosophical difference
between himself and the communists demonstrates that, in fact,
Loren Petrich is a COMMUNIST ***hole
H: "Having found not one single carbon monoxide leak on the entire
premises, it is my belief, and Willard concurs, that the reason
you folks feel listless and disoriented is simply because
you are lazy, stupid people"
G: Knackos...you're a retard.
F: Unit_4's "Kook hunt" reminds me of "Jimmy Baker's" harangues against
adultery while concurrently committing adultery with Tammy Hahn.
E: Jet is not worthy of the time to compose a response until
her behavior improves.
D: Jet Silverman now follows me from newgroup to newsgroup
...despite (C) above.
C: Jet Silverman claims to have killfiled me.
B: Jet Silverman plays the fool and spews out nonsense as a
method of sidetracking discussions which are headed in a
direction that she doesn't like.
A: The wise man is mocked by fools.
------------------------------
From: "Aaron R. Kulkis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
alt.destroy.microsoft,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: German armed forces ban MS software <gloat!>
Date: Tue, 20 Mar 2001 22:51:11 -0500
Charles Lyttle wrote:
>
> "Aaron R. Kulkis" wrote:
> >
> > Charles Lyttle wrote:
> > >
> > > "Aaron R. Kulkis" wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Charles Lyttle wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > "Norman D. Megill" wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > In article
><[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
> > > > > > GreyCloud <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > > > > > >"Aaron R. Kulkis" wrote:
> > > > > > [snip]
> > > > > > >> I would also bet that, if that is the case, that M$ is required to give
> > > > > > >> the source to the Department of Defense in electronic form, AND give the
> > > > > > >> military the right to modify the source code for their own internal use.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >Yep, we do! When we purchased some VAXes we got source code,
> > > > > > >schematics, the whole works. Same for microsoft stuff. Of course
> > > > > > >agreements of non-disclosure and security protecting their proprietary
> > > > > > >software were in place. After reviewing their source code all I can say
> > > > > > >is that the mil. now calls it messy-dos!
> > > > > >
> > > > > > It is true that selected organizations can get Windows source code. But
> > > > > > there is no way a few dozen or even a few hundred of the organization's
> > > > > > programmers could do an adequate audit of the source code. There is
> > > > > > simply too much source code. And what a waste; since the NDA prevents
> > > > > > sharing, each organization must duplicate the effort of the others.
> > > > > > Even Microsoft's entire body of programmers has demonstrated time and
> > > > > > again that they allow serious security holes to slip through.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > There is no substitute for having thousands, possibly millions, of
> > > > > > programmers around the world scrutinize open source code for security
> > > > > > holes. Not even Microsoft's coffers can buy that kind of auditing.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > --Norm
> > > > > And how do you verify that the code you got is the code that was used in
> > > > > the build?
> > > >
> > > > Simple you idiot...****YOU***** COMPILE IT.
> > > >
> > > > Stupid little shithead...
> > > >
> > >
> > > Some stupid shitheads think you can take 20million lines of code,
> > > compile them with any two random compilers, using any 2 random
> > > makefiles, on any 2 random machines and get identical binary files. It
> > > don't work that way now and never has. Just today I tried that using
> > > VC++ on NT and got different binaries.
> >
> > Good god, that's not the point.
> >
> > If you have the source code, and inspect it for back doors....you compile
> > it AND USE the executables produced from the source code WHICH YOUR OWN
> > PEOPLE HAVE VERIFIED.
> >
> > Only an idiot would trust a CD full of executables handed to them by
> > a Microsoft rep in conjunction with another CD full of source code.
> >
> > In fact...I don't trust a damn thing produced by Microsoft.
> >
> > >
> > > > > --
> > > > > Russ Lyttle
> > > > > "World Domination through Penguin Power"
> > > > > The Universal Automotive Testset Project at
> > > > > <http://home.earthlink.net/~lyttlec>
> > > >
> > > > --
> > > > Aaron R. Kulkis
> > > > Unix Systems Engineer
> > > > DNRC Minister of all I survey
> > > > ICQ # 3056642
> > > >
> > > >
> > > --
> > > Russ Lyttle
> > > "World Domination through Penguin Power"
> > > The Universal Automotive Testset Project at
> > > <http://home.earthlink.net/~lyttlec>
> >
> > --
> > Aaron R. Kulkis
> > Unix Systems Engineer
> > DNRC Minister of all I survey
> > ICQ # 3056642
> >
> > K: Truth in advertising:
> > Left Wing Extremists Charles Schumer and Donna Shelala,
> > Black Seperatist Anti-Semite Louis Farrakan,
> > Special Interest Sierra Club,
> > Anarchist Members of the ACLU
> > Left Wing Corporate Extremist Ted Turner
> > The Drunken Woman Killer Ted Kennedy
> > Grass Roots Pro-Gun movement,
> >
> > J: Other knee_jerk reactionaries: billh, david casey, redc1c4,
> > The retarded sisters: Raunchy (rauni) and Anencephielle (Enielle),
> > also known as old hags who've hit the wall....
> >
> > I: Loren Petrich's 2-week stubborn refusal to respond to the
> > challenge to describe even one philosophical difference
> > between himself and the communists demonstrates that, in fact,
> > Loren Petrich is a COMMUNIST ***hole
> >
> > H: "Having found not one single carbon monoxide leak on the entire
> > premises, it is my belief, and Willard concurs, that the reason
> > you folks feel listless and disoriented is simply because
> > you are lazy, stupid people"
> >
> > G: Knackos...you're a retard.
> >
> > F: Unit_4's "Kook hunt" reminds me of "Jimmy Baker's" harangues against
> > adultery while concurrently committing adultery with Tammy Hahn.
> >
> > E: Jet is not worthy of the time to compose a response until
> > her behavior improves.
> >
> > D: Jet Silverman now follows me from newgroup to newsgroup
> > ...despite (C) above.
> >
> > C: Jet Silverman claims to have killfiled me.
> >
> > B: Jet Silverman plays the fool and spews out nonsense as a
> > method of sidetracking discussions which are headed in a
> > direction that she doesn't like.
> >
> > A: The wise man is mocked by fools.
> Joseph Adams makes a good point in his post about trusting compilers.
Quite true, in fact.
> But even so, the fact that I have the source to Linux and other
> commercial operating systems does not do me much good security wise. The
Yes it does.
You find out what version the security experts run...and run the same thing.
Just because they didn't specifically enter into an agreement with you
to inspect the code INDIVIDUALLY FOR YOU does not mean that they did
not inspect it.
The fact is, the code HAS been inspected by hundreds of people.
Anjd there are GREAT bragging rights in discovering a security hole,
so there is a STRONG motivation to publicize a security hole when
one has been found.
> security from open source is in the fact that thousands have looked at
> the code over time. Someone would find deliberate backdoors. With MS, I
> can't do a build and then a compare with a random sample from the market
> to see if results match. They won't even if both are built from the same
> code base. I would have to build my own distribution of everything : NT,
> Office, Outlook, etc. I can't even hire a third party to do the builds
> for me. Nondisclosure agreements prevent me from giving it to third
> parties and even limit who in my organization can see the code.
>
> With Linux, I can start with a reasonably secure code base and then
> hire, say, RedHat or SusE to create a custom build with my security
> enhancements. I can monitor the configuration management and build
> process in detail. I can get all the disks I want burnt from my build
> and insist that everyone in my organization use my one build.
> --
> Russ Lyttle
> "World Domination through Penguin Power"
> The Universal Automotive Testset Project at
> <http://home.earthlink.net/~lyttlec>
--
Aaron R. Kulkis
Unix Systems Engineer
DNRC Minister of all I survey
ICQ # 3056642
K: Truth in advertising:
Left Wing Extremists Charles Schumer and Donna Shelala,
Black Seperatist Anti-Semite Louis Farrakan,
Special Interest Sierra Club,
Anarchist Members of the ACLU
Left Wing Corporate Extremist Ted Turner
The Drunken Woman Killer Ted Kennedy
Grass Roots Pro-Gun movement,
J: Other knee_jerk reactionaries: billh, david casey, redc1c4,
The retarded sisters: Raunchy (rauni) and Anencephielle (Enielle),
also known as old hags who've hit the wall....
I: Loren Petrich's 2-week stubborn refusal to respond to the
challenge to describe even one philosophical difference
between himself and the communists demonstrates that, in fact,
Loren Petrich is a COMMUNIST ***hole
H: "Having found not one single carbon monoxide leak on the entire
premises, it is my belief, and Willard concurs, that the reason
you folks feel listless and disoriented is simply because
you are lazy, stupid people"
G: Knackos...you're a retard.
F: Unit_4's "Kook hunt" reminds me of "Jimmy Baker's" harangues against
adultery while concurrently committing adultery with Tammy Hahn.
E: Jet is not worthy of the time to compose a response until
her behavior improves.
D: Jet Silverman now follows me from newgroup to newsgroup
...despite (C) above.
C: Jet Silverman claims to have killfiled me.
B: Jet Silverman plays the fool and spews out nonsense as a
method of sidetracking discussions which are headed in a
direction that she doesn't like.
A: The wise man is mocked by fools.
------------------------------
From: "Aaron R. Kulkis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
alt.destroy.microsoft,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: German armed forces ban MS software <gloat!>
Date: Tue, 20 Mar 2001 22:51:36 -0500
Charles Lyttle wrote:
>
> Jan Johanson wrote:
> >
> > "Charles Lyttle" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> > news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> > > "Norman D. Megill" wrote:
> > > >
> > > > In article
> > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
> > > > GreyCloud <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > > > >"Aaron R. Kulkis" wrote:
> > > > [snip]
> > > > >> I would also bet that, if that is the case, that M$ is required to
> > give
> > > > >> the source to the Department of Defense in electronic form, AND give
> > the
> > > > >> military the right to modify the source code for their own internal
> > use.
> > > > >
> > > > >Yep, we do! When we purchased some VAXes we got source code,
> > > > >schematics, the whole works. Same for microsoft stuff. Of course
> > > > >agreements of non-disclosure and security protecting their proprietary
> > > > >software were in place. After reviewing their source code all I can
> > say
> > > > >is that the mil. now calls it messy-dos!
> > > >
> > > > It is true that selected organizations can get Windows source code. But
> > > > there is no way a few dozen or even a few hundred of the organization's
> > > > programmers could do an adequate audit of the source code. There is
> > > > simply too much source code. And what a waste; since the NDA prevents
> > > > sharing, each organization must duplicate the effort of the others.
> > > > Even Microsoft's entire body of programmers has demonstrated time and
> > > > again that they allow serious security holes to slip through.
> > > >
> > > > There is no substitute for having thousands, possibly millions, of
> > > > programmers around the world scrutinize open source code for security
> > > > holes. Not even Microsoft's coffers can buy that kind of auditing.
> > > >
> > > > --Norm
> > > And how do you verify that the code you got is the code that was used in
> > > the build?
> >
> > Compile it - doh!
> Did you mean "build" instead of "compile"? Do you understand the
> difference?
You know what I mean.
> --
> Russ Lyttle
> "World Domination through Penguin Power"
> The Universal Automotive Testset Project at
> <http://home.earthlink.net/~lyttlec>
--
Aaron R. Kulkis
Unix Systems Engineer
DNRC Minister of all I survey
ICQ # 3056642
K: Truth in advertising:
Left Wing Extremists Charles Schumer and Donna Shelala,
Black Seperatist Anti-Semite Louis Farrakan,
Special Interest Sierra Club,
Anarchist Members of the ACLU
Left Wing Corporate Extremist Ted Turner
The Drunken Woman Killer Ted Kennedy
Grass Roots Pro-Gun movement,
J: Other knee_jerk reactionaries: billh, david casey, redc1c4,
The retarded sisters: Raunchy (rauni) and Anencephielle (Enielle),
also known as old hags who've hit the wall....
I: Loren Petrich's 2-week stubborn refusal to respond to the
challenge to describe even one philosophical difference
between himself and the communists demonstrates that, in fact,
Loren Petrich is a COMMUNIST ***hole
H: "Having found not one single carbon monoxide leak on the entire
premises, it is my belief, and Willard concurs, that the reason
you folks feel listless and disoriented is simply because
you are lazy, stupid people"
G: Knackos...you're a retard.
F: Unit_4's "Kook hunt" reminds me of "Jimmy Baker's" harangues against
adultery while concurrently committing adultery with Tammy Hahn.
E: Jet is not worthy of the time to compose a response until
her behavior improves.
D: Jet Silverman now follows me from newgroup to newsgroup
...despite (C) above.
C: Jet Silverman claims to have killfiled me.
B: Jet Silverman plays the fool and spews out nonsense as a
method of sidetracking discussions which are headed in a
direction that she doesn't like.
A: The wise man is mocked by fools.
------------------------------
From: Salvador Peralta <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: What is user friendly?
Date: Tue, 20 Mar 2001 19:55:38 -0800
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Craig Oshima quoth:
> For normal users, that's probably more than they need. It certainly
> at
> least meets what I would call "basic functionality." I grant that
> it's another hour or so for me to continue adding development tools,
> MSDN,
> various Adobe applications and some miscellaneous utilities. I don't
> imagine you're happy with just the basic Linux install?
Craig, if you have been using a fairly recent version of linux, you
should know that KDE and windows have very similar user interfaces --
with the caveat that KDE provides somewhat greater functionality.
Knowing this, you would also realize that the learning curve for
someone to transition from windows to linux ( given kde as the desktop
) is much shorter than from windows to mac, because of that similarity.
If you have installed *ANY* commercial linux distribution in the last 3
years, you also know that a "basic" linux install comes with literally
thousands of applications and utilities. Several times as many as
windows. You can custom select you applications and install the OS in
less than an hour on a decent processor with a reasonable amount of
memory.
You don't seem to know those things, so I will resectfully suggest that
you should learn a little more about the OS before talking to us about
its "user unfriendliness" and what is and is not included on a "basic
install".
--
Salvador Peralta -o)
Programmer/Analyst, Webmaster / \
[EMAIL PROTECTED] _\_v
^^^^^^^^^^^^^
------------------------------
** FOR YOUR REFERENCE **
The service address, to which questions about the list itself and requests
to be added to or deleted from it should be directed, is:
Internet: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
You can send mail to the entire list by posting to comp.os.linux.advocacy.
Linux may be obtained via one of these FTP sites:
ftp.funet.fi pub/Linux
tsx-11.mit.edu pub/linux
sunsite.unc.edu pub/Linux
End of Linux-Advocacy Digest
******************************
