Linux-Advocacy Digest #977, Volume #26 Thu, 8 Jun 00 14:13:04 EDT
Contents:
Re: Linux first in ATA 100 support! (Cihl)
Re: Just Installed Win 2K and it ROCKS!!!!!!! ("Pedro Coto")
Re: Innovation ("Pedro Coto")
Re: How Pete Goodwin Can Fix "The sad Linux story" (John Sanders)
Re: the bar is being raised... (clyde)
Re: Why my company will NOT use Linux (2:1)
RE: Would a M$ Voluntary Split Save It? (David Dorward)
Re: Computer and memory (2:1)
Re: Boys Club for Linux (Donal K. Fellows)
Re: Canada invites Microsoft north ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
Re: Bob's Law (Jeff Glatt)
Re: Canada invites Microsoft north (Jack Troughton)
Re: Canada invites Microsoft north (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Lars_Tr=E4ger?=)
Re: New User here, and I think Linux Stinks! (mark)
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: Cihl <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Linux first in ATA 100 support!
Date: Thu, 08 Jun 2000 16:11:48 GMT
> So why is Windows so superior? Windows has windowdressing.
It does? Doesn't Linux have that, too?
> Charlie
--
A world without poverty, a world without greed.
One without armies, without borders, .
We CAN do it ourselves, we MUST do it ourselves.
For everybody, from everybody.
------------------------------
From: "Pedro Coto" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Just Installed Win 2K and it ROCKS!!!!!!!
Date: Thu, 08 Jun 2000 16:11:07 GMT
> Linux has been assimilated, resistance is futile.
Microsoft is being broken, resistance is stupid.
> God, after using Linux for the last few months and now installing
> Windows 2k it is like jumping in a time machine and going 10 years
> into the future.
Evil ! After using Windows NT and 2000 for the last few years, and now
installing GNU/Linux it is like jumping in a time machine and going 10 light
years into freedom.
> Win 2k installed so easily while Linux is asking me questions about
> Monitor refresh rates and giving me a list of 1985 variety printers to
> choose from.
GNU/Linux didn't ask me anything !
> Does anyone really use an HP LaserJet 500 anymore?
Would you drop it if it does its work ? Funny ! Then take your
brain to the paper basket.
> How about Sound Blaster Live support?
How about TNT2 3D support from newly installed W2K, how about
AverMedia TV support ? How about freedom ? How about Sound Blaster
Death support ?
> Linux had the jump on Windows 2k, yet Windows 2k has Livewire support
> and Linux does not.
Windows 2k had the jump on GNU/Linux, yet GNU/Linux is open source
ad Windows 2k does not.
> Why is that?
Tell me you. Where is the Widows 2K company ? First it came vaporware,
now
it is a full companyware hohoho.
> Maybe Creative knows the future and is applying it's resources
> appropriately.
May be it is forced by the ones that will go to prison :-) Yeah, the
prison
of shame and stupidity, the mind prison, worst than any.
> Sorry, but Linux is a bunch of promises and Windows 2k delivers right
> now on the spot.
The spot light is broken. GNU/Linux was here before Windows, and it
will be here after it, and of course, after Microshit.
> Linux will die shortly and WIndows will live on and on and on and
> on......
Linux is growing, Windows is dead.
------------------------------
From: "Pedro Coto" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: alt.os.linux
Subject: Re: Innovation
Date: Thu, 08 Jun 2000 16:13:58 GMT
> All opinion is valued, of course. Although it's true what you say,
> wouldn't it be about time for something completely new? Basic
> computing practices haven't changed in about ten to fifteen years.
If you've got it sell it; if it works fine it will sell good.
------------------------------
From: John Sanders <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: How Pete Goodwin Can Fix "The sad Linux story"
Date: Thu, 08 Jun 2000 10:56:43 -0500
Leslie Mikesell wrote:
>
> In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
> John Sanders <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> >
> >> And Linux is not Unix.
> >
> > Why not?
>
> None of it's code is owned by the people who own the trademark.
>
> Les Mikesell
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
So BSD, SunOS, Solaris, AIX(maybe), HPUX, etc are not UNIX?
--
John W. Sanders
===============
"there" in or at a place.
"their" of or relating to them.
"they're" contraction of 'they are'.
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 08 Jun 2000 12:03:58 -0400
From: clyde <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: the bar is being raised...
there goes M$ "innovating" again
Salvador Peralta wrote:
> The LA Times reported tuesday that M$ plans to invest $2 billion in
> developer support and improved tools for their web-based applications to
> keep their developers and third-party vendors loyal to the os.
> According to Zdnet, they are waving millions at potential web
> integrators to partner with M$.
>
> http://www.zdnet.com/sp/stories/news/0,4538,2581309,00.html
>
> The goal, obviously, is to keep developers "loyal" to WinDevelopment
> through their loyalty to the almighty dollar. To those developers, I
> will simply say that the money will be there regardless of which os you
> build for. The corporate world is starved for talent and solutions, and
> anyone with application development and/or system administration talent
> can make a pile of money in this industry.
>
> The long-term prospects for open source developers are better than the
> long-term prospects for winDevelopers. For one thing, the cost of
> development in open source is shared by multiple companies, individuals,
> schools, and foundations. The shift from competition to collaboration
> works to everyones benefit and is one of the reasons why linux has
> improved so quickly, why M$ is so scared of open source, and why tools
> like perl have built such a dizzying array of useful components like
> wideranging database support including oracle and db2, and modules that
> support every major open protocol despite the fact that it is a
> relatively new language.
>
> For another, let's not forget the predatory nature of M$. They look
> after themselves first, and will bury a third-party partner in a
> heartbeat if they feel that it's in their corporate interest. If you
> develop for windows and your company sits in a market niche that M$
> wants for itself, it will bury you to grab that niche. For another,
> building aps that interface with M$'s proprietary api is like building
> castles in the sand. Every time the company updates a .dll that your
> application requires, you'll be sweating the need for a revision to keep
> your application compatible.
>
> And remember that M$'s ability to deliver on the promise of money and
> tools is linked to the value of their stock and after they are split up,
> their stock won't be worth enough to follow through on their $2 billion
> investment promise.
>
> To open sourcers, I like to say that what this latest M$ strategy shows
> me is that the Redmond beast wants us dead and buried. They are willing
> to spend upwards of a tenth of their total value, and probably 30-40% of
> its working capital to retain and attract developers in order to make
> that happen.
>
> It also shows me that M$ sees how vulnerable they are to linux,
> especially when it comes to deploying web-based applications and
> integrating web-enabled applications with legacy systems.
>
> But vulnerable or not, the msdn has 4 million members, which I daresay
> is comparable to the total installed-base for linux. While there is a
> part of me that doesn't give a rat's a$$ about what is going on in
> redmond, there is another part that recognizes that this raises the bar
> for all of us who want to continue to provide our customers and
> employers with the best tools for use in their business.
>
> I would encourage any linvocate in this group to take a look at their
> efforts WRT improving and/or promoting linux and see whether they can do
> a little more than they are currently doing.
>
> Regards,
>
> Salvador Peralta
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> http://www.la-online.com
------------------------------
From: 2:1 <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Why my company will NOT use Linux
Date: Thu, 08 Jun 2000 17:44:47 +0100
JEDIDIAH wrote:
>
> On Thu, 08 Jun 2000 14:14:51 GMT, Robert L. <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >It's an advocacy NG, people that need help don't go here. People here
> > should ) talk about things that are good and bad about Linux.
>
> There are very few people HERE that haven't already made up
> their mind and have an extreme point of view in that respect.
Exactly true. This must be one of the biggest flame grops on usenet.
people come here with bigoted views ready to enjoy a good fight,
although I have had some problems solved.
-Ed
>
> [deletia]
>
> --
>
> |||
> / | \
>
> Need sane PPP docs? Try penguin.lvcm.com.
--
The day of judgement cometh. Join us O sinful one...
http://fuji.stcatz.ox.ac.uk/cult/index.html
------------------------------
From: David Dorward <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: RE: Would a M$ Voluntary Split Save It?
Date: Thu, 8 Jun 2000 17:26:08 +0100
> Are there really any places still using word95?
I know of one company that simply can not afford to upgrade all their
computers, as a result they have a mixture of Word 2000, Word 97, and Word
6.0.
(NB: Just to cover myself, it is not the company that I work for, don't get
the idea the SW has resources that limited)
D Dorward
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Before you buy.
------------------------------
From: 2:1 <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: Computer and memory
Date: Thu, 08 Jun 2000 17:55:57 +0100
Olivier Borgeaud wrote:
>
> Due to my personal experience: (Please, do not take that as "scientific
> tests", but make a smile)
>
> Windows NT 2000 needs AT LEAST 64 MB to perform well and to be nicely
> responsive with a text writter like Winword 2000, assuming a 40 pages text
> document. (OS boot time: 40 secondes)
>
> Windows 98 needs AT LEAST 64 MB to perform well and to be nicely responsive
> with a text writter like Winword 2000, assuming a 40 pages text document.
> (OS boot time: 65 secondes)
>
> Windows 95 needs AT LEAST 32 MB to perform well and to be nicely responsive
> with a text writter like Winword version 2, assuming a 40 pages text
> document. (OS boot time: 35 secondes)
>
> BeOS needs AT LEAST 64 MB to perform well and to be nicely responsive with a
> text writter like GOBE Productive, assuming a 40 pages text document. (OS
> boot time: 22 secondes !)
>
> LINUX with X and KDE need AT LEAST 64 MB to perform well and to be nicely
> responsive with a text writter like StaOffice 5.1, assuming a 40 pages text
> document. (Yes you can do it with VI and 12 MB, but I compare it with a GUI,
> and ... sorry ... a normal tool) (OS boot time: 45 secondes include KDE)
>
Some of us have different uses. I use fvwm2 and exacs/latex. This
significantly reduces memory requirement. Also, LaTeX can quite happily
deal with a 400 page document in the same amount of memory. You insist
on comapring some things and not others, but some people (like me) would
(be forced to) use a Word like wp on Windows but use LaTeX/emacs under
linux. So for me, with my requirements, linux can do the same in less
memory, although I happen to have plenty.
But other than that, I mopstly agree.
-Ed
> FACTS
>
> 1. All 32 bits OS with a GUI needs at least 64 MB to perform well with a
> basic application
> 2. Memory is actually very cheap
> 3. New software needs more and more memory to run
> 4. New CPU are more and more powerfull
> 5. New softwares needs more and more power (Usualy to complete same
> fonctions)
> 6. No PC comes with less than 64 MB memory today
> 7. It is stupid to run new versions softwares on old hardware and expect
> greats performances
> 8. If you dont need new features, stay with your old hard and soft, it
> performs very well
> 9. Even if your OS boot fast, it doesn't mean it will perform well and you
> will get great features
>
> Best regards,
>
> Olivier Borgeaud
--
The day of judgement cometh. Join us O sinful one...
http://fuji.stcatz.ox.ac.uk/cult/index.html
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Donal K. Fellows)
Subject: Re: Boys Club for Linux
Date: 8 Jun 2000 16:51:56 GMT
On Tue, 06 Jun 2000 03:42:03 GMT, [EMAIL PROTECTED]
(LinuxMaybe) wrote:
> Jeff carroll
> Charlie Ebert
> pac4854
> Chris Ahlstrom
> Terry Porter
> sandrews
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> simon777
How did you get a copy of my killfile? :^)
Donal.
--
Donal K. Fellows http://www.cs.man.ac.uk/~fellowsd/ [EMAIL PROTECTED]
-- I may seem more arrogant, but I think that's just because you didn't
realize how arrogant I was before. :^)
-- Jeffrey Hobbs <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Crossposted-To:
comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.os.os2.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: Canada invites Microsoft north
Date: Thu, 08 Jun 2000 17:02:20 GMT
> On 06/07/2000 at 08:02 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] said:
> [...deleted...]
] In article <393faf54$8$obot$[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
] Bob Germer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
]
] Much politial rhetoric deleted rather than repeat crap.
Agreed. However, the War of 1812 was a very important turing
point in American history. If you can spare the time, read
http://www.army.mil/cmh-pg/books/amh/AMH-06.htm
It provides a very interesting prespective of the early
US military and how important successes and failures
in the War of 1812 were. The terms "War Hawk" and "drums
of war" are from that era.
] Speaking of the War of 1812, Dubious said of the war resolution in the
] Senate:
> [...] " Dividing along sectional lines the
> " House had voted for war on June 4, but the Senate approved only on
> " June 18 and then by only six votes.
It was a quote from a reputable source. Not my words.
] For your information, that was a substantial majority, idiot. In
] June 1812, there were only 34 Senators. While Louisana had been
] admitted earlier that Spring, in the US, the official admission is
] as of July 4 and the Senators and Representative(s) do not take
] office until after that date.
]
] Thus a margin of 6 votes, assuming all eligible Senators voted, rather
] uncommon in those days, would mean a vote of 20-14. A politician who
] garners 58.8% of the vote is considered a landslide winner in this
] country.
I didn't offer any commentary other than to include the quote.
Your comment on Lousisana is noted.
(from www.senate.gov/learning/stat_13.html)
" 12th Congress (1811-1813)
" Majority Party: Republican (30 seats)
" Minority Party: Federalist (6 seats)
" Other Parties: 0
" Total Seats: 36
Undoubtable, as you suggest, not all Senators voted on the matter.
Public opinion was divide over the war.
>From http://members.tripod.com/~war1812/intro.html
" To make matters even more embarrassing for the War hawks, people
" in the New England states openly disapproved of the war. In
" Massachusetts, the New Englanders placed their Stars and Stripes
" at half-mast when war was declared. as the conflict progressed
" they refused to volunteer for military service and they withheld
" financial support for the war effort. Some merchants actually kept
" selling beef to British army authorities.
I shall part with another quote from Daniel Webster
(a somewhat famous American orator and statesman):
" Whoever would discover the causes which have produced the present
" state of things, must look for them, not in the efforts of the
" opposition, but in the nature of the war in which we are engaged ...
" Quite too small a portion of public opinion was in favor of war to
" justify it originally. A much smaller portion is in favor of the mode
" in which it has been conducted ... Public opinion, strong and united,
" is not with you in your Canada project ... The acquisition of the
" country is not an object generally desired by the people ... You are
" you say, at war for maritime rights, and free trade. But they see you
" lock up your commerce and abandon the ocean. They see you invade an
" interior province of the enemy. They see you involve yourselves in a
" bloody war with native savages; and they ask you if you have, in
" truth, a maritime controversy with the Western Indians, and are
" really contending for sailors' rights with the tribes of the Prophet.
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Jeff Glatt)
Crossposted-To:
comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.os.os2.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: Bob's Law
Date: Thu, 08 Jun 2000 17:21:57 GMT
>[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>Mayor writes:
>
>>> Bob Lyday writes:
>
>>>> Bob's Law invoked. Tholen mentioned. Thread is now
>>>> officially dead.
>
>>> Illogical.
>
>> Since when has logic had anything to do with Usenet?
>
>Since I started posting.
The University of Hawaii has had to reprimand you for violation of
their abuse policy since you started posting too
------------------------------
From: Jack Troughton <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.os.os2.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: Canada invites Microsoft north
Date: Thu, 08 Jun 2000 12:05:18 -0400
Bob Germer wrote:
>
> On 06/07/2000 at 03:43 PM,
> Jack Troughton <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> said:
>
> > Then they aren't being very efficient about it. I got the numbers from
> > the '99 budget for the city at their website:
> > http://www.ville.montreal.qc.ca. Mind you, if you don't read french,
> > you'll have a problem with it. Finally, what's the total amount Philly
> > spent on snow removal? I extrapolated the numbers by dividing the money
> > spent in 99 (slightly less than 54 million dollars) by the population of
> > the city (slightly more than one million).
>
> Which, since our dollar is worth far more than the Canadian dollar is far
> in excess of the $50 CDN you claim Montreal spent. Moreover, your numbers
> do not include the money spent by the Commonwealth of Pennsylvania which
> clears the major highways and many of the city's arterial routes such as
> Route 1, Route 13, Broad Street, Front Street, State Road, etc., etc.
>
> You must also factor in that our laws prevent us from dumping plowed snow
> into rivers and streams. We must move it to vacant lots and wait for
> mother nature to warm up and melt much of it. After a plow goes down a
> street, we must send in front end loaders to put it in dump trucks and
> take it to the storage sites. We do not pile it up to make walls along the
> curb like some cities do. According to the clean water people, plowed snow
> is contaminated, principally with salt.
>
> Also, unlike Montreal, Philadelphia is a city of row homes with only 4
> feet separating the front of the house from the curb. We have literally
> hundreds and hundreds of miles of such streets which frequently run
> unbroken for several miles which precludes merely pushing it aside.
Obviously you've never been here. They remove the snow weekly from
the sides of the roads during winter, and it also cannot be dumped
into rivers and streams. Not to put to fine a point on it Bob, but
the snow we get here makes the situation in Pennsylvania look pretty
tame. Total snowfall this past winter was about 350 cm (app 4 yards
total) and we didn't get much snow this year. Canadians certainly
have the most experience and knowledge of snow removal in North
America.
Typical housing in Montreal consists of three floor buildings with
external staircases, with the building occupying an entire city
block. Once again, you don't know what you're talking about.
> > > And how can an anglophone live in Quebec and call himself free? If he owns
> > > a store, he cannot advertise to his English speaking customers. He has to
> > > send out his bills in two languages. He isn't allowed to list his address
> > > as Potato Street since that street is now named Rue Pomme de Terre. If he
> > > doesn't speak French, he cannot get a Civil Service job from what I've
> > > been told by Francophones in Montreal.
>
> > Yes he can. It's not like there's no english media here; however, the
> > sign on the front of his store must have french predominant. I guess
> > Crescent St (or Rue Crescent, if you're speaking in french) doesn't
> > exist? (It's a big bar street; lotsa pretty girls... damned expensive
> > too... and the name is english, not french.) As for the civil service
> > job, well, I doubt that someone in Orlando who spoke only Swahili and
> > not english or spanish would have a lot of luck in getting a position
> > too.
>
> Why is it then, that shops which cater to American tourists in the
> Montreal underground mall have only French descriptions of the merchandise
> in the windows, only list what they sell in French?
Did you read what I said? Besides, the simple fact of the matter is
that the vast majority of customers in the Montreal underground are
French Canadians, not American tourists. It's called catering to
your customers.
> And as far as your example using Swahili, it is a farce. Someone living in
> Orlando who spoke only Spanish can get many Civil Service jobs. I asked
> specifically about an Anglophone. Your lack of a cogent answer proves that
> he or she cannot be hired. Then the Anglophone is not free.
When I arrived here in '97, I was a unilingual anglophone. I had a
job within three months. How am I not free again?
Would the unilingual espanophone be able to get a job serving the
public?
> > > There are far more Asians living in Vancouver, BC than Francophones.
> > > Street signs there are in English and French. How is that fair to the
> > > Asians?
>
> > No they're not... they're in English. Where did you hear that from?
>
> I saw the signs to the major E-W highway listing nord, sud, est, ouest. I
> saw the signs for exits in both languages, services in both languages,
> while driving from Vancouver to Calgary in 1995.
Sure you did. I'd refer you to another post in this thread from Alan
Baker, a Vancouverite. You are talking bullshit about which you know
nothing again, Bob.
> > > What is the unemployment rate in Montreal and the Province of Quebec as
> > > opposed to Canada as a whole, as compared to the rest of Canada without
> > > including Quebec?
>
> > Dunno, but I do know it's a lot better now than it was two-three years
> > ago.
>
> A non-answer if there ever was one.
Conveniently you snipped the rest of my response, detailing the
relative levels of employment between the various regions of Canada.
I'm beginning to understand a lot more why some people call you
Boob.
Jack
Montreal PQ
CANADA
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Lars_Tr=E4ger?=)
Crossposted-To:
comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.os.os2.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: Canada invites Microsoft north
Date: Thu, 8 Jun 2000 19:55:42 +0200
Charlie Ebert <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> I have a much better idea here.
>
> Instead of re-locating Microsoft 143 miles north of where they are
> currently, why don't we re-locate them 143 miles WEST of where they are
> currently.
>
> That would not only be beneficial to the United States but Canada and
> for that matter the world!
Somebody suggested a split in two parts: software development and
marketing.
Lars T.
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (mark)
Subject: Re: New User here, and I think Linux Stinks!
Date: Thu, 8 Jun 2000 14:29:23 +0100
In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, Pete Goodwin wrote:
>[EMAIL PROTECTED] (JEDIDIAH) wrote in
><[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
>
>>>1.Plug in scanner
>>>2.Windows recogonizes it and asks for CD.
>>>3.Pop in CD.
>>>4. Installs perfectly.
>>>5.Also installs some great software like Adobe Photoshop.
Anyone who uses the phrase 'great software' has to have been
through the microsoft marketing training machine.
It's the phrase Bill uses to describe the crap I've had to
reboot 3 times already today.
Mark
------------------------------
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