Linux-Advocacy Digest #769, Volume #27 Wed, 19 Jul 00 02:13:04 EDT
Contents:
Re: Linsux as a desktop platform (T. Max Devlin)
Re: Linsux as a desktop platform (T. Max Devlin)
Re: Linsux as a desktop platform (T. Max Devlin)
Re: Are Linux people illiterate? ("ostracus")
Re: Linsux as a desktop platform (T. Max Devlin)
Re: Would a M$ Voluntary Split Save It? (T. Max Devlin)
Re: Would a M$ Voluntary Split Save It? (Chad Irby)
Re: Tinman digest, volume 2451743 (Tholen) ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
Re: Are Linux people illiterate? ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
Re: Trauma 98-00 ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
Re: What I've always said: Netcraft numbers of full of it ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
Re: Just curious, how do I do this in Windows? ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: T. Max Devlin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy,comp.unix.advocacy
Subject: Re: Linsux as a desktop platform
Date: Wed, 19 Jul 2000 01:29:22 -0400
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Said Craig Kelley in comp.os.linux.advocacy;
>T. Max Devlin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
>
>> Said Craig Kelley in comp.os.linux.advocacy;
>> >[EMAIL PROTECTED] (Karl Knechtel) writes:
>> [...]
>> >Just don't try to print anything and then have your box immediately
>> >respond; even on our new G4 (which is some seriously cool hardware,
>> >BTW) the whole machine locks up for a few seconds when you print. Oh,
>> >and what was that new feature in 9? You could actually use the
>> >machine while it was copying files? :) Fun stuff.
>>
>> I thought that was a new feature in System 7. It was, in fact. But
>> then, Windows uses the same line of bull.
>
>Nope. I have a PowerBase 180 with System 7.5x and it locks the whole
>thing up while copying a file.
What part of "line of bull" didn't you understand? ;-)
Previous to System7, it didn't "lock the whole thing up". It just sat
there, copying. There was literally NOTHING else you could do. In
System7, they added the highly touted ability to continue (if you could
stand the slothful response) to use the Finder. You still couldn't
switch to another app, and I presume that's what you mean by "locks the
whole thing up". Look! You can still drag the window around the
screen! Slowly.
System 9 must have added the ability to switch apps. Very slowly.
--
T. Max Devlin
Manager of Research & Educational Services
Managed Services
ELTRAX Technology Services Group
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
-[Opinions expressed are my own; everyone else, including
my employer, has to pay for them, subject to
applicable licensing agreement]-
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From: T. Max Devlin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy,comp.unix.advocacy
Subject: Re: Linsux as a desktop platform
Date: Wed, 19 Jul 2000 01:30:43 -0400
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Said ZnU in comp.os.linux.advocacy;
>In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, Craig Kelley
><[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
>> T. Max Devlin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
>>
>> > Said Craig Kelley in comp.os.linux.advocacy;
>> > >[EMAIL PROTECTED] (Karl Knechtel) writes:
>> > [...]
>> > >Just don't try to print anything and then have your box immediately
>> > >respond; even on our new G4 (which is some seriously cool hardware,
>> > >BTW) the whole machine locks up for a few seconds when you print. Oh,
>> > >and what was that new feature in 9? You could actually use the
>> > >machine while it was copying files? :) Fun stuff.
>> >
>> > I thought that was a new feature in System 7. It was, in fact. But
>> > then, Windows uses the same line of bull.
>>
>> Nope. I have a PowerBase 180 with System 7.5x and it locks the whole
>> thing up while copying a file.
>
>Actually, it doesn't, IIRC. The Finder isn't multi threaded, so the
>Finder become useless while copying. But you can use other programs.
Oops. I must have gotten confused, and got it backwards. I just posted
that you could use the Finder, but not other apps. So did System 9 get
a multi-threaded Finder?
--
T. Max Devlin
Manager of Research & Educational Services
Managed Services
ELTRAX Technology Services Group
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
-[Opinions expressed are my own; everyone else, including
my employer, has to pay for them, subject to
applicable licensing agreement]-
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------------------------------
From: T. Max Devlin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy,comp.unix.advocacy
Subject: Re: Linsux as a desktop platform
Date: Wed, 19 Jul 2000 01:31:55 -0400
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Said Matthew Majka in comp.os.linux.advocacy;
[...]
>> IIRC you can still start a program from the Apple menu and maybe even
>> use the applications menu while the Finder is copying. It's been a
>> while, but I remember figuring out a way to switch to another app.
>
><Apple>+<Tab> works for me.
Really? They stole that from Microsoft, then. Sure enough. :-D
--
T. Max Devlin
Manager of Research & Educational Services
Managed Services
ELTRAX Technology Services Group
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
-[Opinions expressed are my own; everyone else, including
my employer, has to pay for them, subject to
applicable licensing agreement]-
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------------------------------
From: "ostracus" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Are Linux people illiterate?
Date: Wed, 19 Jul 2000 00:43:19 -0500
In article <8l1un0$dob$[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, "MH"
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
>> BTW Quite a few typos result not from poor grammer/spelling skills, but
>> poor typing skills.
>
> Some, maybe. But how can the following examples from my collection of
> 100+ posts in COLA be attributed to typing skill?
>
> They're - There - Their. Horrendously misused by so called
> "programmers" and "sys-admins". There is really no excuse for their
> grammar to be so horrific. They're suspect at best.
>
> Lose - loose. What's up with this? If I see "I loose my connection"
> one more time I'm going to "loose" my mind.
>
> Payed - paid. I don't get it. Is inventing words a way around grammar
> issues? Chilling.
>
> Contractions. Oh momma. Did these programmers take English? How can you
> program and not posses basic English skills such as how to use a
> contraction? And the guy is bitching about "goto" in C code? Yikes.
>
> I could go on but a dead horse is quite an ugly image.
>
>
>
*smile* I feel your pain. The above examples is why I keep tools like a
paper (and online) dictionary handy. As well as utilizing the resources
built into the tools I use. Granted I slip-up from time to time. I think
part of the problem is a throw-away society. How so you ask? Well usenet
is a good example of throw-away in action. Quick thoughts thrown together.
Read quickly, and replied to in the same fashion. Also the lifespan of
posts in usenet reinforces this behavior. Contrast this with say a
magazine article. Yes magazine articles can have some of the errors you
mentioned (shame on them), but it isn't quite as bad.
--
We now return you to your regularly scheduled "horse beating" already in
progress.
------------------------------
From: T. Max Devlin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy,comp.unix.advocacy
Subject: Re: Linsux as a desktop platform
Date: Wed, 19 Jul 2000 01:43:29 -0400
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Said John W. Stevens in comp.os.linux.advocacy;
>"T. Max Devlin" wrote:
>>
>> Said John W. Stevens in comp.os.linux.advocacy;
>> >"T. Max Devlin" wrote:
>> [...]
>> >Yes and no. Apps have to know if they are CMT, and a fairly large
>> >amount of time and money must be spent designing, profiling, then
>> >tweaking "properly designed" CMT apps.
>>
>> I was under the impression (false, it appears) that this was of some
>> actual benefit.
>
>I don't see how . . . the end result of this tweaking would be to
>generate a *SINGLE* set of applications that conforms to the
>specifications of the tweaker.
I certainly don't want to get back in to this, but I think its worth
noting, in general, that most desktops are used for a SINGLE application
at a time. When I'm using a word processor, my computer is a word
processor. It might not be such a bad thing for it to be tweaked, at
that moment in time, to be a word processor. Likewise when I'm using a
web browser, or a database, or whatever.
The problem is, of course, (and this, I think, is somewhat obscured in
the typical comments I've heard) that the app isn't handling a
scheduler, but merely free to soak up time; once it lets another process
take over, the idea falls apart. (If maybe the background apps paid
attention to backgrounding well... but then we get back into
"cooperative" ideas.)
[...]
>I don't work on automatic transmissions . . . and I'm just barely smart
>enough to *KNOW* that I shouldn't work on an automatic transmission!
>:-)
I don't work on any transmissions, and don't plan to. But I do drive a
manual transmission car. I like the control it gives me. ;-)
[...]
>> Well, I've had a very broad set of students; they are very much a cross
>> section of the user population, I think.
>
>Nope. If by broad you meant: "randomly" selected, then you'd have a
>point, but remember: nobody takes a class that they don't need.
Nobody "needs" the classes I teach; they're selected by their employer
to take them because somebody forgot to mention this stuff is supposed
to intuitive.
It's a broad cross section. Some was old ladies with Wordstar, some was
router technicians with SNMP managers. Nobody takes a computer class
unless they need to use a computer. That's about as self-selecting as
you can get.
>> If I were trying to prove a
>> statistical relationship, obviously you are correct that they're not
>> truly random. But for observational studies, it seems sufficient.
>
>I'm ignorant: what's an observational study? I never ran across that
>term in my study of statistics.
Uh... not a statistical study? Where exactly did you get the idea that
my opinion based on my experience was a matter of statistical validity?
Are you honestly trying to tell me that you have a statistical study to
refute my observation?
I didn't think so.
--
T. Max Devlin
Manager of Research & Educational Services
Managed Services
ELTRAX Technology Services Group
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
-[Opinions expressed are my own; everyone else, including
my employer, has to pay for them, subject to
applicable licensing agreement]-
====== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News ======
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======= Over 80,000 Newsgroups = 16 Different Servers! ======
------------------------------
From: T. Max Devlin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
comp.os.os2.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy,comp.sys.mac.advocacy
Subject: Re: Would a M$ Voluntary Split Save It?
Date: Wed, 19 Jul 2000 01:52:42 -0400
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Said JS/PL in comp.os.linux.advocacy;
[...]
>Letting the market create winners and losers isn't "perfect" but it's the
>best thing man has come up with so far.
Allow me to save an otherwise asinine comment by pointing out that
*competition* in a *free market*, is indeed the most efficient method of
producing goods possible. I know where JS/PL gets his silly "winners
and losers" rhetoric, but I just can't abide having the free market
system maligned by his incompetence.
>Insert the government into the
>equation, who's sole misguided solution is to strip the OS of any extra
>applications and give the consumer "less" for the same or more money isn't a
>logical answer.
We, the People, in order to form a more perfect union, establish
justice, ensure domestic tranquility, provide for the common defense,
promote the general welfare, and secure the blessings of liberty to
ourselves and our posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution
of the United States of America.
>Microsoft won't lose anything in the deal, as a matter of fact they will
>probably increase their revenue because of it.
So somebody else, according to your ranting, making MS's business
decisions for them will increase their revenue? That figures.
>Where in history has the government been successful at running a business?
Where on earth did you get the idea that this is in any way shape or
form an issue of the government running a business? I mean, not even
Bill Gates believes that bullshit this much.
>Now they want to help the poor stupid ignorant consumer get the most for his
>buck in computer software. People just weren't making the correct choices on
>their own.
They weren't making any choices on their own, because there were no
choices readily available, due to Microsoft's criminal activity. As far
as poor stupid ignorant consumers go, you definitely take the cake. But
even you will benefit from the greater ability to get the most for your
buck in computer software, once the market is re-established.
--
T. Max Devlin
Manager of Research & Educational Services
Managed Services
ELTRAX Technology Services Group
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
-[Opinions expressed are my own; everyone else, including
my employer, has to pay for them, subject to
applicable licensing agreement]-
====== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News ======
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======= Over 80,000 Newsgroups = 16 Different Servers! ======
------------------------------
From: Chad Irby <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
comp.os.os2.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy,comp.sys.mac.advocacy
Subject: Re: Would a M$ Voluntary Split Save It?
Date: Wed, 19 Jul 2000 05:59:33 GMT
"JS/PL" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> "Steve Mading" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > In comp.os.linux.advocacy JS/PL <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >
> > : The statement above has absolutely no facts to debate. Instead of
> > : reciting the anti-MS "evil Microsoft" line try laying down some
> > : proven incidents of wrongdoing on Microsoft's part.
> >
> > Why bother repeating the effort of the court case? Go read
> > Judge Jackson's findings of fact. This task has already been
> > done.
>
> Very few facts can be found there.
...except, of course, that Microsoft was a monopoly, that it had crossed
the line into being an abusive monopoly, that Microsoft officials had
planned and executed actions that broke several US laws, that they had
tried to cover up those actions, and that Microsoft had tried to
obstruct justice from day one.
Try reading this:
http://www.cometwild.com/usvms/toc.html
It's the original Findings of Fact.
--
Chad Irby \ My greatest fear: that future generations will,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] \ for some reason, refer to me as an "optimist."
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Crossposted-To:
comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.os.os2.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: Tinman digest, volume 2451743 (Tholen)
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: 19 Jul 2000 14:55:50 +1000
[EMAIL PROTECTED] (tinman)
>In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, Marty <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>> Evidence of his C comprehension problems. The function "rand" is called.
>No, he's blind--he does not C. ('
Of course, rand() in and by itself tends to be deterministic. You really
want to put an srand(time(NULL)) before it, or your program tends to be
very boring.
Bernie
--
Anybody that wants the presidency so much that he'll spend two years
organizing and campaigning for it is not to be trusted with the
office
David Broder
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: Are Linux people illiterate?
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: 19 Jul 2000 15:05:48 +1000
"MH" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
>Simple. I speak and write English. There and two ways to do this. Right and
>wrong.
>The above argument to tense aside, if I'm not to abide by the rules of my
>native tongue why would not such sloppiness be expected not to spill over
>into whatever I do? Writing code included.
Classic ;-)
Bernie
P.S.: Many many people you criticize as "sloppy" might be even more
stringent in their adherence to the rules of their respective
native languages than you are; However, you'll never know, because
you don't see them writing in their native languages, and even if you
did, you wouldn't be able to understand.
--
It is easier to make war than to make peace
Georges Clemenceau
French Prime Minister 1906-09
Verdun, 20 July 1919
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: Trauma 98-00
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: 19 Jul 2000 15:16:49 +1000
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
>Stop wasting your time on Linsux.
>If you want boxy lookig fonts and documents in
>formats that the rest of the world is NOT using,
>try Linsux....
X-Trace: bgtnsc05-news.ops.worldnet.att.net 963956220 12.79.168.164 (Tue, 18 Jul 2000
21:37:00 GMT)
Welcome back, Steve. Now shut up, willya?
Bernie
--
Thomas --- Jefferson --- still surv--
John Adams
2nd President of the US
Last words, 4 July 1826
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Crossposted-To: comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: What I've always said: Netcraft numbers of full of it
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: 19 Jul 2000 15:24:16 +1000
"Drestin Black" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
>There are vendors selling W2K solutions with 99.999% uptime - just like the
>other *nix vendors.
Really? Who? Got a few URLs?
And the big question always is: What will they do for you when their hardware
fails to achieve those levels? I remember the first time someone put out
a 99.99% (or was it 99.9%) uptime guarantee for NT. If you had more downtime,
they would take some percentage off the cost of the next regular service
visit. Oh great!
>do you have ANY clue just how many registry keys you would have to open and
>leave open before this happens. We're talking a HUGE nasty runaway program
>that the person running it wasn't watching. I mean, it's millions here... I
>tried to trigger it so I could get a number and stopped just past 1 million.
>Yep, it was FRIGGIN' slow to close the app (felt like it had crashed) but,
>nope, no blue screen here...
>Gee, a bug, you found a bug. Wow, amazing! And they've fixed it in their
>very first service pack. Your complaint?
So you say you don't have SP1 installed, either?
Bernie
--
This is the Fourth?
Thomas Jefferson
US President 1801-09
Last words, on 4 July 1826
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Crossposted-To: comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: Just curious, how do I do this in Windows?
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: 19 Jul 2000 15:52:08 +1000
"Drestin Black" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
><[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
>> Sheesh --- so what name *is* it under? I mean, if you are willing to
>> register your stuff with the copyright registrar, you surely aren't
>> ashamed to own up to it, are you?
>perhaps I wish to remain anonymous - given the types that occupy COLA and
>troll COMNA would this suprise you?
It wouldn't really surprise me. However, *if* you choose to remain
anonymous, *then* you simply can't expect anyone to take you serious
when making statements that relate to your person.
On the other hand, I have always posted with a perfectly valid email
address, even to cola. And while I am a linux advocate, I certainly have
posted good things about other systems (mainly the Mac, and NeXT ;-),
and have related many a story of linux doing slightly weird things. And
you know what --- I think I have yet to receive my first cola triggered
mail.
And posting with my full email address means that if I were to say "I am
the author of TMW, the best lossless compressor for greyscale images
currently published, and it was developed on linux/AXP. I am also the
author of the RC5 routines in the linux/AXP distributed.net client.
So you can trust that I have personal experience with linux/AXP", such
statement would carry a lot of weight, simply because it is verifiable[1].
So maybe, if you want to be taken seriously, you need to overcome your
paranoia and give up your anonimity.
>> P.S.: And PLEASE get a newsreader that manages to do decent quoting. These
>> extra linebreaks in quoted stuff are really annoying.
>interesting - I have absolutely no problem whatsoever reading or replying to
>ANYONE's posts without any extra line breaks at all. Perhaps your newsreader
>sucks.
ARGH! Not another dimwit who says "I don't have a problem, so my software
can't be the cause of the problem you see". A person who leaves his high
beam on when driving behind another car doesn't have any problem, either,
but still causes others problems.
Here, let me show you what a paragraph from your recent posts looked
like when it got here:
> >oh, grow up and get a life child. You couldn't possibly know how much
code
> >I've done and copyrighted in my life. Yep, as in registered at the
copyright
> >office, not just a little (C) in some remarks somewhere.
Note that "code" and "copyright" are both on a line of their own, and
lacking any quote characters. Now here is the same paragraph in the post
you quoted:
>oh, grow up and get a life child. You couldn't possibly know how much code
>I've done and copyrighted in my life. Yep, as in registered at the copyright
>office, not just a little (C) in some remarks somewhere.
Note how the words "code" and "copyright" are at the end of the lines?
OK, so it wasn't someone else's newsreader that introduced these extra
line breaks (because the above were quoted directly from the files in
my news spool, without any newsreader interfering). But maybe the fault
is with the transport somewhere? Maybe my INND screws things up when it
receives the posts? Well, have a look at
http://www.deja.com/[ST_rn=ps]/getdoc.xp?AN=647557131&fmt=text
and
http://www.deja.com/[ST_rn=ps]/getdoc.xp?AN=646662617&fmt=text
respectively to see how the posts looked when they arrived at Deja.
Bernie
[1] TMW might not hold that distinction for much longer. There is
an entry in the IOCCC that competes quite well with the published
TMW. Once the judges have finished their work, that entry might
be "published" on the IOCCC site. It would carry the same email
address, though.
--
The right to be heard does not automatically include the right to be
taken seriously
Hubert Humphrey
American Democratic politician
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