Linux-Advocacy Digest #63, Volume #28 Fri, 28 Jul 00 15:13:06 EDT
Contents:
Re: God damm Microsoft (Leslie Mikesell)
Re: God damm Microsoft
Re: Star Office to be open sourced (Leslie Mikesell)
Re: Gnome or KDE (tolan)
Re: I had a reality check today :( (Leslie Mikesell)
Re: Anti-Human Libertarians Oppose Microsoft Antitrust Action (was:
Microsoft Ruling Too Harsh (The Ghost In The Machine)
Re: Gnome or KDE
Re: Yeah! Bring down da' man! (Nathaniel Jay Lee)
Re: Gnome or KDE (Matthias Warkus)
Re: Gnome or KDE (Matthias Warkus)
Re: Aaron Kulkis -- USELESS Idiot -- And His "Enemies" -was- Another one
of Lenin's Useful Idiots denies reality (Clell A. Harmon)
Re: Yeah! Bring down da' man! (John Jensen)
Re: Changing LILO in Mandrake? (Leslie Mikesell)
Re: Gnome or KDE (2:1)
Re: Just curious, how do I do this in Windows? (Nathaniel Jay Lee)
Re: Linux can save you money on electricity! (2:1)
Re: Anti-Human Libertarians Oppose Microsoft Antitrust Action (was: Microsoft
Ruling Too Harsh ("KLH")
Re: Aaron Kulkis -- USELESS Idiot -- And His "Enemies" -was- Another one of
Lenin's Useful Idiots denies reality (Loren Petrich)
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Leslie Mikesell)
Subject: Re: God damm Microsoft
Date: 28 Jul 2000 12:37:15 -0500
In article <4ljg5.2696$[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
Erik Funkenbusch <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>> >Untrue. You only need to shutdown and reboot (on Win9x machines) when a
>> >file is in use when you try to patch it or replace it. If the file is
>not
>> >in use, replacing it does not require a reboot.
>>
>> How do you know whether the patch includes a dll that is in
>> use by the system or not?
>
>Ideally the install program will know and tell you when to reboot.
>Unfortunately, most install programs take the approach of forcing a reboot
>even when unneccessary "just to be safe".
>
>The reason for this is, unlike Linux, Windows uses a paging system for
>executables. Windows treats an executable as a small (or not so small in
>some cases) extra paging file.
Why is that unlike Linux? Unix has demand-paged exectutables directly
from their files since SysVr3 (mid 80's...). I assumed that Linux
continued the tradition.
>This allows the OS to simply discard
>infrequently used pages without having to first page them to disk. Since
>the executable image is a paging file, Window need only use the same
>mechanism it uses for it's general paging file to reload a page when a
>paging fault occurs.
>
>This however, has the drawback that files that are loaded in memory are also
>locked on disk.
Unix, of course, uses the inode to track the file, not the name in
the directory entry. The name can be deleted and the inode and
file contents will continue to exist until the last thing using
it closes it. So, if you replace a file correctly (by copying
in under a tmp name in the same filesystem, then renaming), anything
using the old copy continues to use it but any subsequent opens
will find the new copy. When the last close happens on the old
copy, the inode and disk space are released.
Les Mikesell
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ()
Subject: Re: God damm Microsoft
Date: Fri, 28 Jul 2000 17:37:40 GMT
On Fri, 28 Jul 2000 12:38:17 -0500, Erik Funkenbusch <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>"Leslie Mikesell" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
>news:8ls76f$2b3k$[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
>> >Untrue. You only need to shutdown and reboot (on Win9x machines) when a
>> >file is in use when you try to patch it or replace it. If the file is
>not
>> >in use, replacing it does not require a reboot.
>>
>> How do you know whether the patch includes a dll that is in
>> use by the system or not?
>
>Ideally the install program will know and tell you when to reboot.
>Unfortunately, most install programs take the approach of forcing a reboot
>even when unneccessary "just to be safe".
>
>The reason for this is, unlike Linux, Windows uses a paging system for
>executables. Windows treats an executable as a small (or not so small in
>some cases) extra paging file. This allows the OS to simply discard
>infrequently used pages without having to first page them to disk. Since
>the executable image is a paging file, Window need only use the same
>mechanism it uses for it's general paging file to reload a page when a
>paging fault occurs.
>
>This however, has the drawback that files that are loaded in memory are also
>locked on disk.
...and subject to any inefficiencies inherent in the current
filesystem like a poor state of maintenance.
Although, locking the original file is more of a show stopper.
--
Unless you've got the engineering process to match a DEC,
you won't produce a VMS.
You'll just end up with the likes of NT.
|||
/ | \
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Leslie Mikesell)
Crossposted-To: gnu.misc.discuss,comp.sys.sun.misc
Subject: Re: Star Office to be open sourced
Date: 28 Jul 2000 12:49:10 -0500
In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
Rich Teer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>On Fri, 28 Jul 2000, T. Max Devlin wrote:
>
>> How does SystemV relate to POSIX? And do any other SystemV Unixes have
>> package handling similar to Solaris?
>
>I don't know the definitive answer to your other questions, but to answer
>your last one: yes, pkg* is a standard part of SVR4 - possibly earlier.
There was a similar but not quite identical facility in SysVr3.
Les Mikesell
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
------------------------------
From: tolan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
alt.os.linux,comp.os.linux.setup,comp.os.linux.x,comp.os.linux.networking
Subject: Re: Gnome or KDE
Date: Sat, 29 Jul 2000 02:26:46 +0100
> A pox on all of them for this; the value of them is _not_ in trying
> to manage X sessions, but in providing _USEFUL APPLICATIONS_.
Or perhaps useful cross application functionality?
ie common clipboard, drag and drop, modular software (ie koffice im
told)
The point is not that these things cannot be achieved in other ways, but
that itergration has its uses, and that for a newbie the other solutions
are non-obvious.
for the record im a newbie, im using window maker & kde together, and
why has noone answerd my enquiry about this hey?? (jest)
paeches & cream
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Leslie Mikesell)
Subject: Re: I had a reality check today :(
Date: 28 Jul 2000 13:05:07 -0500
In article <rrbg5.2622$[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
Erik Funkenbusch <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>"John W. Stevens" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
>> > > OS/2 was co-written. MS did not write OS/2 all by it's self.
>> >
>> > No, but it certainly wrote most of it (pre 2.0)
>>
>> References, please?
>
>Lan Manager was written by MS.
Where did the core netbios protocol come from? It was around years
before LanMan in the IBM PC-NET, AT&T Starlan, and other incarnations
and then showed up in WFWG. The LanMan extensions to this were so
horrible that I can believe they were done entirely by MS. However
the old core protocol always seemed too good to have come from
Microsoft at the time (remember that long timespan when they couldn't
even deal with disk partitions?). The only real problem with it
was the memory footprint compared to the Netware client.
Les Mikesell
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (The Ghost In The Machine)
Crossposted-To:
misc.legal,talk.politics.misc,alt.politics.libertarian,talk.politics.libertarian
Subject: Re: Anti-Human Libertarians Oppose Microsoft Antitrust Action (was:
Microsoft Ruling Too Harsh
Date: Fri, 28 Jul 2000 18:07:49 GMT
In comp.os.linux.advocacy, Aaron R. Kulkis
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote
on Wed, 26 Jul 2000 13:01:25 -0400
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
>Loren Petrich wrote:
>>
>> In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
>> Aaron R. Kulkis <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>> >Steve wrote:
>>
>> >> The robber barons want H1-B visa employees at slave wages...
>> > ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ ^^^^^^^^^^^
>> >Spot the contradiction.
>>
>> >You cannot get an H1-B sponsorship approved UNLESS you demonstrate that
>> >you are going to pay the new hire a salary GREATER THAN the
>> >50th Percentile of other workers in that job classification.
>>
>> All the employers have to do is create some new job
>> classification for the purpose of evading that regulation.
>
>Please explain how one invents a new job classification for
>Database Administrator or Systems Administrator...
>
>Come on, this should be interesting.
And then one has to clarify as to why the government couldn't
simply include the just-created job classification in
the H1-B regulation. (Is this an Executive Order, or
a Congressional Act?)
End of loop, upward spiral, more and more and more paperwork!
(Just the thing for a 21st-century economy....)
[.sigsnip]
--
[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- wondering if "Thorougly Modern Millie" is getting dated
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ()
Crossposted-To:
alt.os.linux,comp.os.linux.setup,comp.os.linux.x,comp.os.linux.networking
Subject: Re: Gnome or KDE
Date: Fri, 28 Jul 2000 18:12:45 GMT
On Sat, 29 Jul 2000 02:26:46 +0100, tolan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
>> A pox on all of them for this; the value of them is _not_ in trying
>> to manage X sessions, but in providing _USEFUL APPLICATIONS_.
> Or perhaps useful cross application functionality?
>
>ie common clipboard, drag and drop, modular software (ie koffice im
>told)
>
>The point is not that these things cannot be achieved in other ways, but
>that itergration has its uses, and that for a newbie the other solutions
>are non-obvious.
"Integration" shouldn't be necessary for any of those 3 actually.
>
>for the record im a newbie, im using window maker & kde together, and
>why has noone answerd my enquiry about this hey?? (jest)
>paeches & cream
Although, minmalist conformance to some comman stadard is useful.
We wouldn't be having this conversation otherwise. However, we
can still use widely varying interfaces to do it.
--
Unless you've got the engineering process to match a DEC,
you won't produce a VMS.
You'll just end up with the likes of NT.
|||
/ | \
------------------------------
From: Nathaniel Jay Lee <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.os.os2.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: Yeah! Bring down da' man!
Date: Fri, 28 Jul 2000 13:09:22 -0500
Chris Wenham wrote:
>
> This would not be unlike the progress seen in factories in the early
> part of the century, where efficiency experts studied how people
> operated a machine and proposed changes to the procedure or the
> machine to make the workers more productive. (This was also abused by
> companies bent on turning their staff into robots themselves, but I
> also think they'd be trying to do that anyway - with efficiency
> experts, customizable UIs or whatever)
One of my cheif complaints about "standards" as they are seen from a
management/business perspective is the idea/concept that all people work
efficiently in EXACTLY the same way. It just doesn't happen. And
unfortunately, this is one of the principle problems with the idea of
standardizing anything too far. (Which lead to my original
misunderstanding of your call to standardize customization ability).
Each person needs the ability to rearrange his/her desk to work the best
that he/she can. At the same time, why do we insist that everyone is
going to be equally proficient with exactly the same software set-up in
exactly the same way on all systems. Although I agree with your later
point that customization futzing can become overwhelming for some users
(even those that don't realize they are doing it sometimes), I think we
need to accept that people know how they will work best.
>
> > > It sounds like you've seen examples of power without knowledge being
> > > abused, specifically in user interfaces. Can you provide some of
> > > them?
> >
> > Absolutely.
>
> [examples snipped]
>
> These were all very good, I'll dwell on these.
>
> > I'm guessing you were asking for a standardized way of making
> > customizations.
>
> I know of two programs that fit my idea. They are Mozilla and
> SawFish. Mozilla's a browser that uses XML to define how its user
> interface works. I am /really ignorant/ about the details! But I
> think it means that I'll be able to adapt it to anything I want.
> Even the existance of the menus as well as their structure is defined
> in XML, which means I should be able to /remove them/.
>
> SawFish is a Window Manager and it is configured utterly through
> Lisp. SawFish is like a Lisp Interpreter with functions that are
> really useful for implementing a Window Manager. It comes packaged
> with Lisp programs that provide a standard "Enlightenment-ish" window
> manager that you can use out-of-the-box.
>
> Lisp for behavior, XML for appearance and organization.
>
> Both programs come with pre-packaged templates and scripts that any
> average user can apply (and are already applied by default, so you
> don't even have to consciously install them). Additional behaviors
> can be supplied as packages that could be installed with a very
> simple front-end - much like the vanity-theme selectors.
>
> But an experienced user who knows what he's doing can modify them
> directly, and get exactly what he wants.
>
> The important thing is that if it's Lisp then it's Lisp everwhere, if
> it's XML then its XML everywhere. And they should use similar enough
> APIs and DTDs from program to program.
>
> Then all we need is a "panic button" to reset a hopeless mess back to
> the default arrangement, a locking option for admins, and we're good
> to go.
>
> Regards,
>
> Chris Wenham
I've used both Mozilla and Sawfish a little here and there. Both are
very impressive. Of course, you are asking for everything to use the
same method of customization, and while I applaud the idea, I think it
will be nearly impossible to implement fully (to the point of making
'all' software stick to a 'standard'). I think there is already enough
diversity in the Linux world that you may see multiple standards
developed to the point where programs become available in each of the
multiple standards (you can already see it to some extent with some
smaller programs in KDE and GNOME being almost identical except for the
use of GTK or QT). Perhaps a distrobution will only include one of
those multiple standards, but I don't think you will ever eliminate the
need, or the desire for multiple ways of doing the same thing. The
Linux and BSD (and the rest of the free software world) crowd is just
too diverse to expect them to ever fully agree on something as
subjective as a 'customization standard'. But I do think it would be an
incredible idea if we could get even a large subset of the total to
agree on one standard way of customizing.
--
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Nathaniel Jay Lee
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Matthias Warkus)
Crossposted-To:
alt.os.linux,comp.os.linux.setup,comp.os.linux.x,comp.os.linux.networking
Subject: Re: Gnome or KDE
Date: Fri, 28 Jul 2000 18:34:52 +0200
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
It was the Fri, 28 Jul 2000 02:06:10 -0700...
...and Chem-R-Us <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Pig wrote:
> >
> > Hi All:
> >
> > I am a newbie of Linux and using the SUSE linux 6.3.
> > I've tried different GUIs.
> > I think the Gnome and KDE are the best.
> > So, which one is better? Pls. suggest.
>
> Given the choice of those two, use KDE (Gnome is slower).
Nonsense. Any statement of the kind "GNOME is fast", "GNOME is slow",
"GNOME is faster than KDE", "GNOME is slower than KDE" is complete
rubbish anyway since neither GNOME nor KDE are a single application
that runs at a determinable speed.
Some GNOME components are faster than their current KDE counterparts
(e.g.: file manager, icon picker).
The inverse may be the case for other components.
Anyway, you are probably confusing Enlightenment with GNOME anyway
like so many people do.
mawa
--
Abdeckstiftbenutzer!
ABS-Bremser!
Achselhaarschneider!
Airbagnachrüster!
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Matthias Warkus)
Crossposted-To:
alt.os.linux,comp.os.linux.setup,comp.os.linux.x,comp.os.linux.networking
Subject: Re: Gnome or KDE
Date: Fri, 28 Jul 2000 18:35:15 +0200
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
It was the Thu, 27 Jul 2000 20:10:14 -0700...
...and Jimmy Navarro <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Pig wrote:
>
> > Hi All:
> >
> > I am a newbie of Linux and using the SUSE linux 6.3.
> > I've tried different GUIs.
> > I think the Gnome and KDE are the best.
> > So, which one is better? Pls. suggest.
>
> I like KDE in my Thinkpad because GNOME is too ugly in my 12.1" viewable
> Active Matrix screen, the bottom horizontal bar to can not set to tiny
> or thinner like in KDE.
You should definitely upgrade to GNOME 1.2.
mawa
--
Abdeckstiftbenutzer!
ABS-Bremser!
Achselhaarschneider!
Airbagnachrüster!
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Clell A. Harmon)
Subject: Re: Aaron Kulkis -- USELESS Idiot -- And His "Enemies" -was- Another
one of Lenin's Useful Idiots denies reality
Date: Fri, 28 Jul 2000 18:14:28 GMT
Crossposted-To:
alt.fan.rush-limbaugh,misc.legal,talk.politics.misc,alt.politics.libertarian,talk.politics.libertarian,alt.society.liberalism
On Fri, 28 Jul 2000 11:09:07 -0400, "Aaron R. Kulkis"
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>> >> >> >Wrong fucking wrong. THE MAJORITY of women do not have brains
>> >> >>
>> >> >
>> >> >That's NOT what I said, and you know it.
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> >> No wonder you can't get laid.
>> >> >
>> >> >my gf says otherwise.
>> >> >hehehehehehe
>> >>
>> >> Yeah, she says 'No'.
>> >
>> >To YOU...
>>
>> Is THAT what she told you? Tsk, tsk. Why do women lie like
>> that? Didn't you wonder why she was so relaxed the next day? You
>> haven't been doing the job boy.
>
>Question: What country are we in?
The one where your woman complains publicly that even Viagra
don't do it for you Aaron...
------------------------------
From: John Jensen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.os.os2.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: Yeah! Bring down da' man!
Date: 28 Jul 2000 18:20:18 GMT
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
: That's all Unix is at it's core: a bunch of components
: operating on loosely structured text files.
Only if you include /usr/include/*.h as loosely structured text files.
John
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Leslie Mikesell)
Crossposted-To: comp.os.linux.misc
Subject: Re: Changing LILO in Mandrake?
Date: 28 Jul 2000 13:21:20 -0500
In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
Cap'n <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
>I'll admit I'm somewhat of a newbie to Mandrake Linux,
>and this is probably a stupid question...but, I need the
>answer.
>
>I just installed Mandrake 7.1 on my system in a dual boot with
>Win98. My hard drive is in four partitions:
>
>Partition 1: Win98 system files (1.5 GB) - hdc1
>Partition 2: Win98 programs (8 GB) - hdc2
>Partition 3: Linux Swap (133 MB) - hdc6
>Partition 4: Linux Native: Mandrake Distro (2.3 GB) - hdc7
>
>After I installed Mandrake and LILO, Linux is the first
>boot option and loads Mandrake after 10 seconds,
>unless I type Windows. I want to set it up so that Windows
>boots after 10 seconds, unless I type Linux.
>
>What's the easiest way to change this in Mandrake? Or
>if someone could point me to a Mandrake HOWTO Web link
>for this, I would appreciate it.
The easiest way is to edit /etc/lilo.conf, moving the section
you want as the default up to be the first entry, then
run /sbin/lilo to activate it.
However, if you like the Mandrake point-n-clik stuff, click on
Drakconf on the desktop, then Drakboot from there and it will
step you through a menu approach to the same thing.
Les Mikesell
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
------------------------------
From: 2:1 <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Crossposted-To: alt.os.linux,comp.os.linux.setup,comp.os.linux.x
Subject: Re: Gnome or KDE
Date: Fri, 28 Jul 2000 19:37:58 +0100
> Sure there is - straight twm - been using it for 10 years[*] and
> have no need for all the desktop clutter, sound, moving menus,
> themes, etc. *tvtwm is available to provide a virtual screen
> larger than the physical screen for those who need such.
All that desktop clutter gets on my nerves. FVWM2 MWM is my personal
favourite. I haven't found that any `better' interfaces actually are
better.
I do like twm, though. I use it to give the xlogin widgit a border and
some comvenienec menues such as shutdown, disable screensaver, etc on my
home system. Its very easy to configure.
>
> scott
>
> [*] before that it was, if I remember correctly, uwm.
>
> (and yes, I've tried gnome and kde)
>
> Besides, twm is available on _every_ unix system.
--
Did you know that the oldest known rock is the famous Hackenthorpe rock,
which
is over three trillion years old?
-The Hackenthorpe Book of Lies
remove foo and revers e-mail address to make it any use
------------------------------
From: Nathaniel Jay Lee <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: Just curious, how do I do this in Windows?
Date: Fri, 28 Jul 2000 13:23:33 -0500
"Aaron R. Kulkis" wrote:
>
> Nathaniel Jay Lee wrote:
> >
> > "Aaron R. Kulkis" wrote:
> > > > Oh, but all three can use it without problems; voila, a netural
> > > > format.
> > >
> > > Has anybody told you that you are a fucking idiot.
> > >
> > > it's true, it's true.
> >
> > Oh god, we can't escape Kurt Angle even on usenet!
> >
> > (THIS JOKE INTENDED FOR WWF FANS. AND IF YOU ARE, IT SPEAKS VOLUMES.
> > HINT: It's not just the catch phrase they have in common.)
> >
>
> Never watch wresting...I don't even watch TV.
>
> Someone else used in another newsgroup, and I thought it was...poignant.
Ah, so that it's not totally lost on you, here is a brief explaination.
Don't take it too personally, it was meant as a joke.
Kurt Angle is a former Olympic gold medal winner that now wrestles in
the WWF. He is extremely egotistical. He uses his Olympic gold as his
excuse for his ego. He comes out and tells the crowd they are nothing
because they don't have 'what it takes' to 'win the gold'. They don't
know what it's like to work for something. They just don't understand
how hard it is to truly work towards your goals. On and on.
He also won a tournament known as King of the Ring and it added to his
ego. He considers himself royalty (and feels it is only appropriate,
after all, he is an Olympic Gold Medalist) and that everyone around him,
including the other wrestlers, are just commoners. He typical goes out
of his way to insult someone, or to insult that crowd, and then as he is
getting booed, he nods his head, holds out his hands and says, "It's
true, it's true!"
Take any part of that you want as offensive. As I said, it was meant as
a joke. As for my wrestling fetish, well, I have my wife to thank for
that. I hardly watched any TV when we started dating. Now she's got me
watching wrestling, Days Of Our Lives, Friends, Frasier, etc....
--
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Nathaniel Jay Lee
------------------------------
From: 2:1 <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: Linux can save you money on electricity!
Date: Fri, 28 Jul 2000 19:46:37 +0100
abraxas wrote:
> B'ichela <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > As someone on this newsgroup said quite snidely. Linux can use
> > the old style of computer equipment called terminals. I was thinking
> > of this and the latest complaints noted by the National Electrical
> > Reliability Council (NERC) in reguards to the electrical consumption
> > of computers expecially in consumer applications. The Nerc reports
> > point to the increasing demand for electrical power and the lack of
> > new generating plants.
>
> Theyre wrong to begin with, the average desktop machine uses as
> much power as two lightbulbs. And you spelled 'especially' wrong,
> you illiterate bastard.
>
> > A terminal is not a major power sucker unlike a workstation. A
> > terminal really draws squat! A Vt100 really only draws perhaps 85
> > watts.
>
> Mine pulls 120 watts actually. The biggest sucker I have is 350watts;
> and thats a PIII 450 w/4 hard drives.
>
And the moniter?
-Ed
>
> -----yttrx
--
Did you know that the oldest known rock is the famous Hackenthorpe rock,
which
is over three trillion years old?
-The Hackenthorpe Book of Lies
remove foo and revers e-mail address to make it any use
------------------------------
From: "KLH" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
misc.legal,talk.politics.misc,alt.politics.libertarian,talk.politics.libertarian
Subject: Re: Anti-Human Libertarians Oppose Microsoft Antitrust Action (was:
Microsoft Ruling Too Harsh
Date: Fri, 28 Jul 2000 11:30:19 -0700
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> Aaron R. Kulkis <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> spewed this unto the Network:
>
> >When YOU go to work as an employee, you live in comfort knowing that
> >at the end of the week, no matter what business is like, you will get
> >paid.
>
> Not so. Employers are always trying to cut wages and fire employees
> to increase profits, whether or not those employees own a share
> or two. When the Board of Directors says they're "trimming the
> fat from the Company", the EMPLOYEES[*], who have to struggle to get a
> ten-cent raise over minimum wage, are "the fat", even if they have
> a couple of shares sitting in a 401(k) somewhere, NOT the CEO and
> the people who own 5% or more of the company.
>
> [*] For your information, not all employees are certified Unix Systems
> Engineers who can easily drop into a new high-paying job whenever they
feel
> like it.
There is something you need to know. What Aaron is saying works for mostly
everyone, at least in my country. Certainly not everyone is certified like
Aaron is. But if you hold a job, you have the right to be paid.
Certainly you can argue that things don't always work that way and there is
an exception to every rule. The system works for the most part.
It is true that companies pay employees not much more than they have to. But
behold the invention of unions and the choice of employees to work
elsewhere. Again, it doesn't alway turn out that way but for the most part,
the system works.
And you know something else, minimum wage isn't that bad anymore.
>
> --
> Microsoft Windows. The problem for your problem.
>
Best Regards,
Kevin Holmes
"extrasolar"
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Loren Petrich)
Crossposted-To:
alt.fan.rush-limbaugh,misc.legal,talk.politics.misc,alt.politics.libertarian,talk.politics.libertarian,alt.society.liberalism
Subject: Re: Aaron Kulkis -- USELESS Idiot -- And His "Enemies" -was- Another one
of Lenin's Useful Idiots denies reality
Date: 28 Jul 2000 18:39:46 GMT
In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
Aaron R. Kulkis <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>> >AFDC
>> >Social Security
>> >WIC
>> >HUD
>> >Dairy price supports
>> >Food Stamps
[Me:]
>> I'm sure that the real reason Mr. Kulkis objects is a lack of
>> virility in this stuff.
>The above programs constitute SLAVERY...as the productive
>people in society are forced to support the lazy and
>unproductive.
So the government is the big exploiter of labor and your elderly
relatives bloodsucking parasites?
--
Loren Petrich Happiness is a fast Macintosh
[EMAIL PROTECTED] And a fast train
My home page: http://www.petrich.com/home.html
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