Linux-Advocacy Digest #388, Volume #28 Mon, 14 Aug 00 02:13:05 EDT
Contents:
Re: Linsux as a desktop platform (T. Max Devlin)
Re: Are Linux people illiterate? ("Aaron R. Kulkis")
Re: Windows stability: Alternate shells? (R.E.Ballard ( Rex Ballard ))
Re: Linsux as a desktop platform (T. Max Devlin)
Re: Are Linux people illiterate? ("Aaron R. Kulkis")
Re: Are Linux people illiterate? ("Aaron R. Kulkis")
Re: Linux as an investment ("Aaron R. Kulkis")
Re: Linux for Desktop, a missing app... ("Aaron R. Kulkis")
Re: R.E. Ballard says Linux growth stagnating (R.E.Ballard ( Rex Ballard ))
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: T. Max Devlin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy,comp.unix.advocacy
Subject: Re: Linsux as a desktop platform
Date: Mon, 14 Aug 2000 01:36:08 -0400
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Said void in comp.os.linux.advocacy;
[...]
>>>If you read it seven dozen times, how come you don't understand it?
>>>And if you didn't read it, why not? (This should be really good. I
>>>bet anyone ten dollars that he'll say the problem's with the man page.)
>>
>>Because those seven dozen times were spread out over seven years of
>>using Unix intermittently, and the majority of them were to look for a
>>specific piece of information which was not related to the issue under
>>discussion.
>
>You say reading the man page would be "reviewing" it "for no practical
>purpose". But you can't review what you've never read. And there would
>be a very concrete practical purpose: if you read it, there's a chance
>you might understand it.
>
>>Can I get my ten dollars now?
>
>Sure, send me your address.
I'm sorry, you've lost the bet. Are you putting your money where your
mouth is? I didn't say the problem was with the man page; you did. I
said, (I'll paraphrase; you were incapable of understanding it the first
time, I doubt quoting it would help) that unless somebody tells me more
specifically what I'm looking for, my recollection from the numerous
times I've read the man page for some specific reason (none of which
were ever impractical, but all of which did indeed transcend the
concrete purpose, since one has to read more than what one needs to
learn from a man page, if only to figure out which part contains what
one needs) was insufficient to inform me what on that man page might
enlighten me, QED.
Another way of putting it which would be even more difficult for you to
grasp would be "if you don't understand it, reading it only gives you a
chance of being able to learn from it".
In fact, I'd read the man page for chmod enough to know almost
definitely that what I was asking for by way of explanation (which
ultimately turned out to be a print-out of the permissions) was not
presented. In retrospect, I probably underestimated the number of times
I've read it (and forgetting at least once or twice I might have
literally read it straight through, which is actually a pretty bizarre
habit I have), but this is all beside the point.
Plan to admit you've lost the bet? I'd hardly expect you to pay up, of
course, but I'm wondering if you're even close to understanding what I'm
saying.
--
T. Max Devlin
Manager of Research & Educational Services
Managed Services
ELTRAX Technology Services Group
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
-[Opinions expressed are my own; everyone else, including
my employer, has to pay for them, subject to
applicable licensing agreement]-
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------------------------------
From: "Aaron R. Kulkis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Are Linux people illiterate?
Date: Mon, 14 Aug 2000 01:31:31 -0400
"Colin R. Day" wrote:
>
> "Aaron R. Kulkis" wrote:
>
> > >
> > > Change that as Nobel prize winner García Márquez suggested, and
> > > you have spanish with phonetic spelling, no sweat, no information
> > > lost.
> >
> > Russian is even more consistant, with it's use of the Cyrillic
> > alphabet, but still, there is ambiguity
> >
> > When you hear the sound like "ee" in Engish is it
> >
> > "i" (actually written as a backwards "N") or the character
> > that looks like 'bl'
> >
>
> And the gamma looking letter sounds like English hard g,
> except when it sounds like v.
ONLY in "-ogo", except for the word "mnogo"
>
> Colin Day
--
Aaron R. Kulkis
Unix Systems Engineer
ICQ # 3056642
I: "Having found not one single carbon monoxide leak on the entire
premises, it is my belief, and Willard concurs, that the reason
you folks feel listless and disoriented is simply because
you are lazy, stupid people"
J: Loren Petrich's 2-week stubborn refusal to respond to the
challenge to describe even one philosophical difference
between himself and the communists demonstrates that, in fact,
Loren Petrich is a COMMUNIST ***hole
A: The wise man is mocked by fools.
B: "Jeem" Dutton is a fool of the pathological liar sort.
C: Jet plays the fool and spews out nonsense as a method of
sidetracking discussions which are headed in a direction
that she doesn't like.
D: Jet claims to have killfiled me.
E: Jet now follows me from newgroup to newsgroup
...despite (D) above.
F: Neither Jeem nor Jet are worthy of the time to compose a
response until their behavior improves.
G: Unit_4's "Kook hunt" reminds me of "Jimmy Baker's" harangues against
adultery while concurrently committing adultery with Tammy Hahn.
H: Knackos...you're a retard.
------------------------------
From: R.E.Ballard ( Rex Ballard ) <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Windows stability: Alternate shells?
Date: Mon, 14 Aug 2000 05:29:08 GMT
In article
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
Jeff Szarka <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> On Sat, 12 Aug 2000 07:32:54 GMT, R.E.Ballard ( Rex Ballard )
> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> > Furthermore, with operating systems consuming 100
> >megabytes and taking nearly 10 minutes to reboot
>
> Windows 95 on a 486 doesn't even take 10 minutes to reboot. Unless you
> load it with Norton Un-Utilities or such.
>
NT Server takes at least 10-20 minutes on a large system.
NT Workstation takes 7-10.
Win2K takes even longer (more memory for the eye candy)
--
Rex Ballard - I/T Architect, MIS Director
Linux Advocate, Internet Pioneer
http://www.open4success.com
Linux - 42 million satisfied users worldwide
and growing at over 5%/month! (recalibrated 8/2/00)
--
Rex Ballard - I/T Architect, MIS Director
Linux Advocate, Internet Pioneer
http://www.open4success.com
Linux - 42 million satisfied users worldwide
and growing at over 5%/month! (recalibrated 8/2/00)
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.
------------------------------
From: T. Max Devlin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Linsux as a desktop platform
Date: Mon, 14 Aug 2000 01:41:10 -0400
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Said void in comp.os.linux.advocacy;
>On Mon, 07 Aug 2000 21:08:30 -0400, T. Max Devlin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>>
>>I am so SICK of some of you people and your silly and rather pathetic
>>*bullshit*. You may all feel quite comfortable and secure thinking that
>>this repeated pattern of "Max says something clueless, and takes twenty
>>posts before he'll stop defending it" is an accurate perception, but the
>>fact is that I ask question and state opinions in other settings as
>>well, and have found no group of people so eager to ridicule and slow to
>>catch on or even try to grasp any novel consideration as I have here in
>>COLA.
>
>Perhaps you've been talking about softer subjects, where your aversion
>to precision isn't so fatal. Or perhaps you've just been dealing with
>more gullible people.
Well, people are generally more gullible than they like to think, of
course. Especially those who pride themselves on "knowing things".
Experts of all stripes, in fact. Most biologists believe in God, for
instance, and physicists often fall for magic tricks. Professional
magicians themselves, in fact, have been known to believe in the
'miraculous' powers of someone who can do no more than replicate known
magic tricks; they presume that 'they could tell', and if they can't,
they become absolutely rock-solid convinced that its 'real'.
>>Being a huge fan of Linux, I'm not terribly content with that, so I'm
>>afraid you've bought yourself a whole heap of Max on this group.
>
>Darn.
>
>># chmod +s foofile;ls -l
>>-rwsrwsrwx 1 root other 0 Aug 7 20:22 foofile
>> ^ ^
>> ^--^--------- "setuid bit" (Execute permission with setuid set)
>
>And setgid.
Thank you.
[...]
>Word to the wise: when an engineer waffles, ask a different one, or
>consult a written reference.
I don't have any written references, and I don't see any reason to
tolerate engineer's waffling any more than anyone else. Why should I?
--
T. Max Devlin
Manager of Research & Educational Services
Managed Services
ELTRAX Technology Services Group
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
-[Opinions expressed are my own; everyone else, including
my employer, has to pay for them, subject to
applicable licensing agreement]-
====== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News ======
http://www.newsfeeds.com - The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World!
======= Over 80,000 Newsgroups = 16 Different Servers! ======
------------------------------
From: "Aaron R. Kulkis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Are Linux people illiterate?
Date: Mon, 14 Aug 2000 01:36:28 -0400
Andres Soolo wrote:
>
> Aaron R. Kulkis <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> >> Well, no. Or at least, no, unless you are saying that speech has less
> >> information content than writing?
> The speech has also intonation that the writing doesn't. (I've heard
> the Chinese writing system does that by using special strokes above the
> hieroglyphs but since I can't read Chinese, I can't confirm that.)
>
> > Russian is even more consistant, with it's use of the Cyrillic
> > alphabet, but still, there is ambiguity
> > When you hear the sound like "ee" in Engish is it
> > "i" (actually written as a backwards "N") or the character
> > that looks like 'bl'
> The KOI comes in handy now :-)
> Actually, it depends on the local dialect. There are some other ambiguities
> too:
> - written "o", when stressed, often becomes "a";
Actually, it's the other way around. Unstressed "o" often gets
pronounced
as "a". And in some regions, it's the reverse (unstressed "a"
pronounced as "o"
> - written "go" becomes "wo", like "segodnq" (pronounced "sevodnya");
> - "e" is called "ye" but pronounced "e" except when in the beginning of
> a word or following a vowel (Alekseev is pronounced "Alekseyev");
ee(umlaut) ("her") is pronounced "ye-yo"
> - there's a letter, e-umlaut, pronounced "yo" but almost always written
> without the umlaut so it could easily be confused with "ye" like in
> the word "ev" (pronounced about "yozh" and means hedgehog).
see above.
>
> There are some nonintuitive mappings in KOI. I've used so far:
> - v is the letter that looks like >|< (doesn't have exact pronounciation
> in English fonetics but is vaguely like `zh');
are you talking about transliterations?
>|< is Zh. Don't know how you bet "v" out of it.
"V" is written with the character that looks identical to "B"
> - y is the letter that looks like bI (pronounced like the first vowel in
> `know');
yes, y in it's vowel form is identical to bl.
> - q is the letter that looks like reversed R (pronounced "ya").
Weird mapping.
>
> Overall, Russian spelling is much closer to the pronounciation than of
> most European languages--even though to its having terribly many, often
> contradicting, morphological rules and exceptions. Of course, Finnish
Actually, the spelling is quite straightforwards....the difficult
part is the damn GRAMMAR.
> and Estonian writing systems are even more phonetical but I can't brag
> much about them since there aren't many people in c.o.l.a who could
> understand them :-)
>
> >> Let's face it, english spelling is complex for no particular reason :-)
> There is a reason: the pronounciation has changed faster than the spelling.
> Old English writing system was based on Latin and as Latin itself was
> pretty phonetical.
>
> --
> Andres Soolo <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>
> This ASEXUAL PIG really BOILS my BLOOD ... He's so ... so ... URGENT!!
--
Aaron R. Kulkis
Unix Systems Engineer
ICQ # 3056642
I: "Having found not one single carbon monoxide leak on the entire
premises, it is my belief, and Willard concurs, that the reason
you folks feel listless and disoriented is simply because
you are lazy, stupid people"
J: Loren Petrich's 2-week stubborn refusal to respond to the
challenge to describe even one philosophical difference
between himself and the communists demonstrates that, in fact,
Loren Petrich is a COMMUNIST ***hole
A: The wise man is mocked by fools.
B: "Jeem" Dutton is a fool of the pathological liar sort.
C: Jet plays the fool and spews out nonsense as a method of
sidetracking discussions which are headed in a direction
that she doesn't like.
D: Jet claims to have killfiled me.
E: Jet now follows me from newgroup to newsgroup
...despite (D) above.
F: Neither Jeem nor Jet are worthy of the time to compose a
response until their behavior improves.
G: Unit_4's "Kook hunt" reminds me of "Jimmy Baker's" harangues against
adultery while concurrently committing adultery with Tammy Hahn.
H: Knackos...you're a retard.
------------------------------
From: "Aaron R. Kulkis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Are Linux people illiterate?
Date: Mon, 14 Aug 2000 01:41:23 -0400
Matthias Warkus wrote:
>
> It was the Wed, 09 Aug 2000 02:28:01 GMT...
> ...and Courageous <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >
> > > > > > "Payed" is much more logical than "paid".
> > > > > > Just try to *logically*
> > > > > > explain why "shure" is a misspelling.
> >
> > "Shure" is a misspelling, because it *is* -- by
> > definition. But if you want a system that makes
> > sense, switch to a purely phonetic system which
> > makes use of natural dipthongs. All you would need
> > is some mechanism of distinguishing long vowels
> > from short ones.
>
> Using a phonetic alphabet that makes all the words that sound the same
> *look* exactly the same, too, would reduce the information content of
> the text. Not a good idea.
>
> That's the reason why the discussions about introducing phonetic
> spelling for French never went for long...
They're trying it in the US schools with this "invented spelling"
bullshit.
And look at how stupid these kids are now that they are graduating.
...or should I say...being shoved out the door, as a mass of
uneducated boobs.
>
> mawa
> --
> If a man is uneducated, he may steal a freight car. If he has a
> college education, he can steal the whole railroad!
> -- David Johnson, NPR
--
Aaron R. Kulkis
Unix Systems Engineer
ICQ # 3056642
I: "Having found not one single carbon monoxide leak on the entire
premises, it is my belief, and Willard concurs, that the reason
you folks feel listless and disoriented is simply because
you are lazy, stupid people"
J: Loren Petrich's 2-week stubborn refusal to respond to the
challenge to describe even one philosophical difference
between himself and the communists demonstrates that, in fact,
Loren Petrich is a COMMUNIST ***hole
A: The wise man is mocked by fools.
B: "Jeem" Dutton is a fool of the pathological liar sort.
C: Jet plays the fool and spews out nonsense as a method of
sidetracking discussions which are headed in a direction
that she doesn't like.
D: Jet claims to have killfiled me.
E: Jet now follows me from newgroup to newsgroup
...despite (D) above.
F: Neither Jeem nor Jet are worthy of the time to compose a
response until their behavior improves.
G: Unit_4's "Kook hunt" reminds me of "Jimmy Baker's" harangues against
adultery while concurrently committing adultery with Tammy Hahn.
H: Knackos...you're a retard.
------------------------------
From: "Aaron R. Kulkis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Linux as an investment
Date: Mon, 14 Aug 2000 01:42:26 -0400
Jeff Szarka wrote:
>
> On Sat, 12 Aug 2000 21:20:11 -0400, "Aaron R. Kulkis"
> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> >> Far be it for me to tell anyone how to analyze companies, but revenue growth
> >> is generally a riskier indicator than profits.
> >
> >
> >Revenue growth DOES mean that the market, as a whole, is putting more
> >and more resources into purchasing your product and/or services.
>
> Yea but when you start at nothing there is only one way but up.
true. first-year increases should be taken with a grain of salt.
--
Aaron R. Kulkis
Unix Systems Engineer
ICQ # 3056642
I: "Having found not one single carbon monoxide leak on the entire
premises, it is my belief, and Willard concurs, that the reason
you folks feel listless and disoriented is simply because
you are lazy, stupid people"
J: Loren Petrich's 2-week stubborn refusal to respond to the
challenge to describe even one philosophical difference
between himself and the communists demonstrates that, in fact,
Loren Petrich is a COMMUNIST ***hole
A: The wise man is mocked by fools.
B: "Jeem" Dutton is a fool of the pathological liar sort.
C: Jet plays the fool and spews out nonsense as a method of
sidetracking discussions which are headed in a direction
that she doesn't like.
D: Jet claims to have killfiled me.
E: Jet now follows me from newgroup to newsgroup
...despite (D) above.
F: Neither Jeem nor Jet are worthy of the time to compose a
response until their behavior improves.
G: Unit_4's "Kook hunt" reminds me of "Jimmy Baker's" harangues against
adultery while concurrently committing adultery with Tammy Hahn.
H: Knackos...you're a retard.
------------------------------
From: "Aaron R. Kulkis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Linux for Desktop, a missing app...
Date: Mon, 14 Aug 2000 01:43:58 -0400
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>
> IBM's much-hyped support for Linux does seem to be almost completely
> limited to the server arena. Of course, Lotus is notorious for not
> suppoerting much of anything: it required an IBM buyout plus two years
> arm-twisting before they were willing even to port SmartSuite to
> IBM's own OS/2. The plug was pulled on a SmartSuite port to Linux (again
> citing "no demand").
>
> The primary reason I dumped SmartSuite on all platforms I formerly used it
> on. :)
>
> --Kevin
>
Bad business is it's own reward.
> On Sun, 13 Aug 2000 05:00:26 -0400, Aaron R. Kulkis <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >Tim Hanson wrote:
> >>
> >> Call me suspicious, but this sounds like one of those stories where we
> >> keep hearing "no demand," or some other lame excuse, but years later
> >> someone gives the real reason in testimony in front of some judge. The
> >> reason always turns out to be some kind of Microsoft arm twisting.
> >>
> >
> >Yep.
--
Aaron R. Kulkis
Unix Systems Engineer
ICQ # 3056642
I: "Having found not one single carbon monoxide leak on the entire
premises, it is my belief, and Willard concurs, that the reason
you folks feel listless and disoriented is simply because
you are lazy, stupid people"
J: Loren Petrich's 2-week stubborn refusal to respond to the
challenge to describe even one philosophical difference
between himself and the communists demonstrates that, in fact,
Loren Petrich is a COMMUNIST ***hole
A: The wise man is mocked by fools.
B: "Jeem" Dutton is a fool of the pathological liar sort.
C: Jet plays the fool and spews out nonsense as a method of
sidetracking discussions which are headed in a direction
that she doesn't like.
D: Jet claims to have killfiled me.
E: Jet now follows me from newgroup to newsgroup
...despite (D) above.
F: Neither Jeem nor Jet are worthy of the time to compose a
response until their behavior improves.
G: Unit_4's "Kook hunt" reminds me of "Jimmy Baker's" harangues against
adultery while concurrently committing adultery with Tammy Hahn.
H: Knackos...you're a retard.
------------------------------
From: R.E.Ballard ( Rex Ballard ) <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: R.E. Ballard says Linux growth stagnating
Date: Mon, 14 Aug 2000 05:54:43 GMT
In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] (fred) wrote:
> On Mon, 07 Aug 2000 06:50:41 GMT, R.E.Ballard ( Rex Ballard )
> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> >In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
> > [EMAIL PROTECTED] (fred) wrote:
> >> Now if only he'd realize that the reality is probably half what
he's
> >> claiming, i.e. around 20 million. :)
> >
> >Actually, this is about the right number for ofically reported sales
> >of shrink wrapped woftware. This would not include CDs included with
> >books. It also wouldnt include multiple installs from a single CD.
> >Usually, when school starts, the kids start passing arounnd Linux
> >like a virus. They help each other do the installs, and pretty soon
> >you have a big jump in demand for the next upgrade (because the kids
> >don't want to wait.
> Ahh, but does it include multiple CD's per install?
Actually, yes. My assumption is that each user will upgrade
at least once a year. I can estimate next year's sales based
on current number of sales and multiplying times 3.
> I have about 10 versions of various boxed Linux installations sitting
> on my bookshelf all related to one install in my office.
>
> Let's see, there's Yggdrasil, then a RedHat 4.0, then 4.2, then 5.0,
> then 6.0, then 6.1, not to mention Caldera Linux 2.3, and a Debian
> 2.1, and about 3 versions of Slackware rangine from my first floppy
> set on up to this latest version 6 or 7 or whatever it is.
IDC doesn't even include Slackware in it's counts. The Red Hat 6.1
and Caldera 2.3 would both count. You'd count as two sales for a single
user.
On the flip side, you have people who have "Install Party's" with a
single (or pair) of Linux CD's cloned on a CD-Burner. And you have
the kids in the classroom passing around a copy of Linux, doing 10-20
installs per month.
IDC also doesn't count Cheap-bytes or Linux Mall "Calling Cards"
($2 freely distributable versions). They specifically count Licenses
shipped. Since there are no actual licenses (nothing to buy), they
don't get counted. Many people buy "sample packs" when they want
to try all the different flavors.
Note that there are licenses (RSA, GIF, LZW, shareware) associated
with the commercial versions sold in the local stores.
> How could you possibly count this, since most Linux purchases are to
> repeat customers... i.e. upgraders.
Yup! What's significant is that the actual sales seems to triple
every year. Furthermore, most people pick a distribution and stick
with it for a specific machine. In fact, many users were very
upset that Mandrake 7.1 did strange things when installed as an
upgrade to Mandrake 7.0. Previously only slackware couldn'd be
installed over an existing installation.
Mandrake also encourages on-line updates. I checked in and found
out what upgrades would be needed to turn my 7.0 into 7.1 and it
was relatively easy, but I hate waiting around for 56k modem downloads.
(Cable modem coming soon).
> >> Or well, maybe if he'd just stop posting. :)
> >
> >What. And miss all that FAN MAIL? Not Likely :-)
>
> Damn
>
Hey, I only publish 30 pages a week. I also support ZDNet,
Yahoo, and Cnet. But I figure since they're not paying
me as a columnist (think I'd be any good? :-), I'll publish
on "Free" boards and let the reporters look me up.
I do get follow-ups via e-mail from Journalists, and usually
respond pretty quickly. Until recently, I couldn't be quoted,
and still can't be quoted as a spokesman for my employer.
--
Rex Ballard - I/T Architect, MIS Director
Linux Advocate, Internet Pioneer
http://www.open4success.com
Linux - 42 million satisfied users worldwide
and growing at over 5%/month! (recalibrated 8/2/00)
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.
------------------------------
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