Linux-Advocacy Digest #890, Volume #28 Mon, 4 Sep 00 14:13:06 EDT
Contents:
Re: [OT] Public v. Private Schools (T. Max Devlin)
Re: Anonymous Wintrolls and Authentic Linvocates - Re: R.E. Ballard
says Linux growth stagnating
Re: Anonymous Wintrolls and Authentic Linvocates - Re: R.E. (Roberto
Alsina)
Re: Notebook/Windows rebate? (s. keeling)
Re: Sun cannot use Java for their servers!! (Markus Laun)
Re: Open lettor to CommyLinux Commy's, and all other commy's to. (Michael Vester)
Re: The Test: Dial-up Connections (Paul E. Larson)
How did Tux the Penguin come about? (Adam Shapira)
Re: Do you people really think that GNU/Linux is a great OS? (Mark Johnson)
Re: Anonymous Wintrolls and Authentic Linvocates - Re: R.E. Ballard
says Linux growth stagnating
Re: Computer and memory
Re: Anonymous Wintrolls and Authentic Linvocates - Re: R.E. Ballard
says Linux growth stagnating
First Library Available: (Adam Shapira)
Re: Qt goes GPL (abraxas)
Re: [OT] Public v. Private Schools ("Aaron R. Kulkis")
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: T. Max Devlin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
comp.os.os2.advocacy,comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: [OT] Public v. Private Schools
Date: Mon, 04 Sep 2000 12:06:51 -0400
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Said Steve Hix in comp.os.linux.advocacy;
>In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>wrote:
>
>> Said [EMAIL PROTECTED] () in comp.os.linux.advocacy;
>>
>> > US Welfare programs specifically discourage upward mobility.
>>
>> How?
>
>If you do anything to move up, the benefits are cut such that
>you end up worse off by working some than by working not at all.
That would be a catch 22 situation, to be sure. That's catch 22
situations discouraging upward mobility, though, not welfare. Very much
fewer people are caught in this situation than we might think, I'd
wager. There is, unfortunately, nothing that can be done, without
making either welfare sub-substistance or guaranteeing all jobs are
above 'minimum wage'.
I still don't think this situation discourages upward mobility, any more
than the existence of welfare itself does. And I can't see the Reps
point on that; it seems to me that lack of opportunity for upward
mobility, and the risk factor attendant on attempting upward mobility,
which discourages upward mobility. Who the hell would want to live on
welfare? People so lazy they're disfunctional? Well, the
disfunctional, of course, deserve welfare. You see what I'm saying?
--
T. Max Devlin
-- Such is my recollection of my reconstruction
of events at the time, as I recall. Consider it.
Research assistance gladly accepted. --
====== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News ======
http://www.newsfeeds.com - The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World!
======= Over 80,000 Newsgroups = 16 Different Servers! ======
------------------------------
From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: Anonymous Wintrolls and Authentic Linvocates - Re: R.E. Ballard
says Linux growth stagnating
Date: Mon, 4 Sep 2000 09:10:05 -0700
Reply-To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Roberto Alsina <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> [EMAIL PROTECTED] escribió:
> >
> > Roberto Alsina <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> > news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> >
> > > They don't. And anyone can clone it. And if they sue the cloner,
> > > as long as the cloner didn't do anything illegal, the cloner will
> > > win. Big deal.
> >
> > Unless the cloner does not have enough money to fight back. Then the
one
> > who is in the right would lose and possibly be made destitute in the
> > process.
>
> Well, that is hardly TT's fault, is it?
> By the same token, anyone else could sue you for any reason and
> you would become just as destitute. If so, why single out TT?
Because it is their intentions that are the subject of fear, uncertantity,
and doubt in this discussion. How many people would have the personal
finances to combat in court a company like Trolltech? If Trolltech brought
a suit that they coud not win against an individual of even a groups of
individuals and keep the issues tied up in court long enough to drain their
opponents resources, it would be Trolltech's fault. That is the one of the
claws of FUD that makes people hesitent to produce a drop in replacement for
Qt.
If it is a fact that the harmony project has died from lack of interest what
has caused that lack of interest? Was it because of satisfaction with Qt?
Was it the technical difficulty of the project? Or, was it the FUD from
Trolltech?
Of couse this many soon all become a moot point with the release of Qt/Unix
2.2 under teh GPL. Although this message does reinforces point of
centention. A possible true reason for KDE to have used Qt instead of
somethine else, since Matthias Ettrich, founder of the KDE project is a
Trolltech employee.
>From http://www.trolltech.com/company/announce/gpl.html
Trolltech offers a choice in licensing with the addition of GPL licensing
for the upcoming release of Qt
(2000/09/04) -Trolltech announced today that it will license the upcoming
free version of Qt/Unix 2.2 under the GPL (GNU General Public License).
Developers will have the option of using the open-source version of Qt 2.2
under either the QPL (Q Public License) or GPL license, depending on their
licensing requirements.
Qt licensed under the GPL will allow developers of free software to use
Trolltech's GUI application framework for free. Any software produced with
Qt under the GPL license, and any derivatives of this software, must also be
released under the GPL. As before, any user who wishes to create proprietary
or closed source software must first purchase a development license from
Trolltech.
"I am very pleased to see that Qt is now available under the GPL," said
Richard Stallman, President of the Free Software Foundation. "This is a big
win for free software and a great gift from Trolltech to the community."
"The release of Qt 2.2 under the GPL license will reinforce our commitment
to the open source and free software movement," said Eirik Eng, President of
Trolltech. "The GPL and QPL are similar, both having the intent of
encouraging development of free software. We have many users who enjoy using
Qt under the QPL license because they can choose the open source licensing
they use, such as the BSD and Artistic licenses, but there has also been a
demand for a GPL license. We have now provided our users a choice."
Open-source industry leaders also applaud the decision by Trolltech. "We
have always been impressed by Trolltech's commitment to open source," said
Ransom Love, President and CEO of Caldera Systems, Inc. (Nasdaq: CALD).
"This move will make it even more desirable to choose Qt for open source
projects."
"We are delighted to see Qt licensed under the GPL," said Bob Young,
Chairman of Red Hat, Inc. (Nasdaq: RHAT). "After this bold move from
Trolltech, free software projects can now use Qt without any licensing
concerns."
"Debian is excited to see Trolltech take this step," said Wichert Akkerman,
leader of the Debian project. "This will encourage the acceptance of Qt as a
building block for free software."
The K Desktop Environment (KDE), one of the largest open source projects
based on voluntary work from all over the world, will benefit greatly from
the new licensing. In the past, KDE has received some criticism for choosing
Qt as its basis. "While Qt was without a doubt the best technical choice,
some members of the free software community didn't agree with Qt's
licensing," explains Matthias Ettrich, founder of the KDE project and
Trolltech employee. "Thanks to Trolltech's new licensing scheme, the
upcoming KDE-2.0 will receive full acceptance throughout the community."
------------------------------
From: Roberto Alsina <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: Anonymous Wintrolls and Authentic Linvocates - Re: R.E.
Date: Mon, 04 Sep 2000 13:36:09 -0300
[EMAIL PROTECTED] escribió:
>
> Roberto Alsina <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> > [EMAIL PROTECTED] escribió:
> > >
> > > Roberto Alsina <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> > > news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> > >
> > > > They don't. And anyone can clone it. And if they sue the cloner,
> > > > as long as the cloner didn't do anything illegal, the cloner will
> > > > win. Big deal.
> > >
> > > Unless the cloner does not have enough money to fight back. Then the
> one
> > > who is in the right would lose and possibly be made destitute in the
> > > process.
> >
> > Well, that is hardly TT's fault, is it?
> > By the same token, anyone else could sue you for any reason and
> > you would become just as destitute. If so, why single out TT?
>
> Because it is their intentions that are the subject of fear, uncertantity,
> and doubt in this discussion. How many people would have the personal
> finances to combat in court a company like Trolltech? If Trolltech brought
> a suit that they coud not win against an individual of even a groups of
> individuals and keep the issues tied up in court long enough to drain their
> opponents resources, it would be Trolltech's fault. That is the one of the
> claws of FUD that makes people hesitent to produce a drop in replacement for
> Qt.
So, you are blaming TT for something they have not done yet? That's not
fair.
> If it is a fact that the harmony project has died from lack of interest what
> has caused that lack of interest? Was it because of satisfaction with Qt?
> Was it the technical difficulty of the project? Or, was it the FUD from
> Trolltech?
It was the change of Qt's license to the QPL, according to
the people who actually coded harmony. It's in the mailing
list archives.
> Of couse this many soon all become a moot point with the release of Qt/Unix
> 2.2 under teh GPL. Although this message does reinforces point of
> centention. A possible true reason for KDE to have used Qt instead of
> somethine else, since Matthias Ettrich, founder of the KDE project is a
> Trolltech employee.
What is a possible reason?
> From http://www.trolltech.com/company/announce/gpl.html
[snip announcement, Qt is now under the GPL, anyone can follow
the link for details]
--
Roberto Alsina
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (s. keeling)
Crossposted-To:
comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.systems,comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.misc,comp.os.linux.misc,comp.os.linux.portable
Subject: Re: Notebook/Windows rebate?
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Mon, 04 Sep 2000 16:48:12 GMT
On Fri, 18 Aug 2000 00:08:00 -0400, B. Joshua Rosen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
[snip]
> drives up the price of the machine by a thousand bucks. In workstation
> applications SCSI offers no performance advantages, SCSI is only helpful
> in file server applications. The Dell desktops are completely Linux
This is a ridiculous statement. Just ask all those out there who are
overclocking their machines in order to squeeze a few more mhz out of
their cpus, or replacing an obsolete (!) 400mhz PII. Yes, scsi is
expensive, but what's it worth to you to off-load IO handling to a
dedicated specialized chip?
--
[EMAIL PROTECTED] (Stephen) TopQuark Software & Serv. Enquire within.
[sed 's/NO@SPAM./@/g'] Contract programmer, server bum.
Any technology distinguishable from magic is insufficiently advanced.
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 04 Sep 2000 18:53:06 +0200
From: Markus Laun <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
alt.linux.sucks,comp.lang.java.advocacy,comp.lang.java.programmer,comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: Sun cannot use Java for their servers!!
Chris Ahlstrom wrote:
> snipp...
>
> Well, he's a Micros~1 apologist.
--------
love that!
------------------------------
From: Michael Vester <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Open lettor to CommyLinux Commy's, and all other commy's to.
Date: Mon, 04 Sep 2000 11:07:31 -0700
Welcome back Tim. I certainly missed your entertaining
alliterations. How come you post to all these groups too?
alt.society.anarchy, alt.atheism, talk.politics.misc,
alt.christnet, alt.flame.niggers
Anyways, heep up the good work. You are doing more for the
Linux cause than just about anyone else. And you are cute as
a button.
Speaking of the missed Windows advocates, what ever happened
to Drestin Black? I enjoyed his parroting of Microsoft
doctrine and his smirking attitude. I guess he is too busy
changing laser printer catridges and rebooting W2K servers.
Michael Vester
10:59am up 29 days, 1:47, 2 users, load average: 0.07,
0.02, 0.00
Tim Palmer wrote:
>
> Its' Labar day now and every Commy-loving Lie-nux Commy and his dog that
>cappitollists
> paid for think's
> that working peopal bilt this cuontry all by themselfs but let me teal you peepal
> tht they coulda'nt
> done it without capptittallists and there monney. Labar is just a commoddity
> like the masheans it
> opporates. Without Cappitol it just sits thear like a stuppit hoarse or a mual.
> People that want labarers
> to halve all the power want us to be like country's whear poeple like to kill
> each other all the time,
> like Kosovo thoas peppel are fucked up aren't thay? But hear inthe US, we halve
> LAWS. And LAWS protect
> all teh smart peeple with the monney from all the stuppit broots out thear
> that want to take it all
> away and blow it off on hookers and beer and destroy society.
>
> If it wasant' for capitlists, you'd all still be living on farm's, working 20
> ours a day and then
> you'd half to fite off the primait Indions the other for hours and you think
> that 12 is bad? And the
> governmant wouldnt of got rid of the indions withotu cappitol either they wood
> of just let them run all
> over the plaice and we'd halve a MESS today but the capittolists said NO
> THEAS STUPPIT INDIONS ARE
> CAUSTING US MONNY GET RID OF THEM RITE NOW!
>
> Commy union's are gettign what they want now becoze thear is a labar shortadge
> (we halvent replaced it
> all with tecknollogy yet), and all they reelly do is make everyboddy pour even
> the workors. They make
> company's worhtless and noboddy want's to by there stalk so thay half to sell
> it real cheap. We half to
> get rid of union's and there stupit dimmands for higher wages and job securety.
>
> Lixnu is getting stronger to, because company's don't realize how mutch munny
> their losing when they
> don't run Windows. They halve so mutch monny they don't know what to due with
> it, so they make all there
> workors diddle around with Linux all day, and they make Microsoft's stalk go
> down the toob, wich makes
> everyboddy lose monny, because who doesant own Microsoft stalk except Linux
> zellots and those stupit
> peopel at McDonnalds that always get the order rong. Meanwhile, the CommyLinux
> CommyVirus is gettign put
> in place, and pretty soon we'll all half to surrendor to the Commy's because
> if we don't our computors will
> crash and itl'l be like Y2K with no ellectrissitty and all that Capitol has
> done for uss wil be destroyed.
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Paul E. Larson)
Subject: Re: The Test: Dial-up Connections
Date: Mon, 04 Sep 2000 17:28:22 GMT
In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, "Aaron R. Kulkis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:
>[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>>
>> OK, so I finally did it... Tested two machines, one Linux and one Win98
>> SE.
>>
~~~~~~~trimmed~~~~~~~~
>>
>> After one hour the downloads were:
>>
>> Linux - 18MB
>> Windows - 6.5MB
>>
>> After two hours, the accumalated total was (and we stopped here):
>>
>> Linux - 32MB
>> Windows - 14MB
>>
~~~~trimmed~~~~~~~~
>> Other interesting facts:
>>
>> Install times:
>> --------------
>>
>> Linux - 43 Minutes
>> Windows - 45 Minutes
>>
>> Time from start to first working dial-up connection:
>> ----------------------------------------------------
>>
>> Linux - 52 Minutes
>> Windows - 48 Minutes
>>
>> Yes, it took only 3 minutes to configure windows to dial-up. Why? Well,
>> I first had to create a user in Linux and enable that user to make ppp
>> connections. This wasted some time. Aslo I had to enter the ISP's DNS
>> IP in the Linux machine, while this was not an issue with the Windows
>> box. The ISP's version of IE5 was used that did most of the set-up
>> automatically.
>>
>> Time to authenticate:
>> --------------------
>>
>> Average times:
>>
>> Linux: 4 Seconds
>> Windows: 9 Seconds
>>
>> Total Connections per machine:
>> -----------------------------
>>
>> Linux: 5 (3 line drops occured)
>>
>> Windows: 4 (2 line drops occured)
>>
>> Both machines were set-up to reconnect automatically. In all instances
>> we restarted the FTP clients manually.
>>
>> That was that.
>>
>> I am now convinced. Linux IS faster on dial-up then Windows, especially
>> on FTP. Any other person that want to add anything are welcome.
>>
>> PS. This test is still not 100% scientific. I KNOW THAT. Take it for
>> what it is. I believe that this is typical times you should get from
>> other machines in similar configurations.
>>
>
>I have similar results from "cable modem" connections from identical
>machines.
>
Either you are connecting to sites with slow connections or your cable
connection is truly fscked up. I just did 19mb in 55 seconds.
Paul
--
"Mr. Rusk you not wearing your tie." -- Frenzy 1972
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 04 Sep 2000 13:32:54 -0400
From: Adam Shapira <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: How did Tux the Penguin come about?
I was wondering if anyone can tell me how Tux, the Linux
Penguin, came about ... and how this penguin became the
mascot of the Linux OS.
------------------------------
Subject: Re: Do you people really think that GNU/Linux is a great OS?
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Mark Johnson)
Date: Mon, 04 Sep 2000 17:32:28 GMT
It sounds like what you are talking about is BeOS...it's really slick.
This is still an interesting post because IMHO Linux is "just" a free Unix.
I would never think of Linux as an innovative OS or see the Linux community
seeking to further the state of the art or technology of operating systems.
But this isn't their charter, right? I don't think you'll find what you're
looking for in Linux.
------------------------------
From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: Anonymous Wintrolls and Authentic Linvocates - Re: R.E. Ballard
says Linux growth stagnating
Date: Mon, 4 Sep 2000 09:17:10 -0700
Reply-To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Donovan Rebbechi <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> On Mon, 04 Sep 2000 00:15:53 -0400, T. Max Devlin wrote:
>
> >It would appear he didn't intend to threaten anyone, certainly. The
> >question isn't whether he intended to threaten anyone, but whether his
> >action inhibited competition.
>
> Harmony died due to lack of interest. So if your concern is the actual
> effect of his actions, then no, he didn't "inhibit competition".
But, what was the source of the lack of interest?
------------------------------
From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: Computer and memory
Date: Mon, 4 Sep 2000 10:25:40 -0700
Reply-To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Grega Bremec <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> ...and [EMAIL PROTECTED] <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> used the keyboard:
> All apologies (and credits) to those who do not share (consciously or
> subconsciously) these bearings with some, but unfortunately I found it
> to be the (not necessarily nominal, but definitely effective) majority
> of what appears to an outside observer to be "the American public",
> that's presenting that kind of an attitude - in one form or another.
>
> Besides, the whole post was intended to be a kind of a "parrot mode"
> speak, simply revealing to Chad what stupid remark he really made.
>
> I must admit though, that I'm not anywhere near to mastering the
> parrot mode the way some other fine posters of this newsgroup do. :-)
>
Do you know what I find really amusing here? It is that it seems as though
Chad is not recieving the high speed internet service either. I don't know
which connection method he is using but I would guess that it might be by a
cable modem. If that is so, it appears that he is not getting his money's
worth.
Measuring the packet handling speed of his posting host's IP address he
seems to be getting performance similar to what I used to when I was still
using a 14.4k ppp dialups. I am getting far better performance with my v.90
ppp dialup connection than chad appears to be enjoying.
Of course this may be a factor of the time of day since a cable modem
provides a shared connection to the net, and his neighbors could be dragging
down his network connection speed or perhaps he was busy with a large file
transfer at both times I checked.
------------------------------
From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: Anonymous Wintrolls and Authentic Linvocates - Re: R.E. Ballard
says Linux growth stagnating
Date: Mon, 4 Sep 2000 09:33:22 -0700
Reply-To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Bernd Gehrmann <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> On Sun, 3 Sep 2000 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> > Bernd Gehrmann <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> > news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> > > On Thu, 31 Aug 2000 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> > > >
> > > > So long as any clone of Qt were open source and free did nothing to
make
> > > > software using it incompatible with Qt that would be fine with us.
Go
> > > > ahead.
> > >
> > > Ah, and then you "go ahead", take their source code, replace their
> > > copyright notices with yours and release the stuff under the BSD
> > > license. With the above statement, you have a guarantee that they
> > > don't sue you for doing that.
> > >
> > > What crack are you smoking?
> >
> > Have you ever head reimplementing to the same API as another library?
>
> The statement you proposed it cited above for everyone to read.
> This statement implies that anyone could make an illegal ripoff
> of Qt, and Troll Tech would guarantee not to sue him. This is
> a completely stupid statement, so they did not make it.
As I have said before, those were various examples of how the question
could have been handled to avoid ambiguity. However, precise wording would
have been determined by company policy. Before we go down the path of hey
Trolltech is just a bunch of programmers just hanging out together and
knowing ou Qt, realize that Trolltech IS a multinational company which means
that it has to deal with legal issues of operating under the laws of
multiple nations, at least the three nations that they have offices in.
Proving they have legal accum when they need it.
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 04 Sep 2000 13:35:58 -0400
From: Adam Shapira <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: First Library Available:
The first library of the Free Systems initiative is now
available at:
http://www.vic.com/~vorlon/freeos
Of course, currently, there is no organized
documentation, but my intention is for that
to change.
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (abraxas)
Subject: Re: Qt goes GPL
Date: 4 Sep 2000 17:35:11 GMT
Darren Winsper <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Subject says it all really. Check out http://www.trolltech.com
> for more info. All I can say is think of the
> bandwidth saved from all those flame wars :)
>
Its too late. The time wasted in getting to this point has insured Gnome
a place in the large unix market, having just recently displaced CDE as
the default desktop for HP/UX, Solaris, etc.
=====yttrx
------------------------------
From: "Aaron R. Kulkis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
comp.os.os2.advocacy,comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: [OT] Public v. Private Schools
Date: Mon, 04 Sep 2000 13:28:59 -0400
david raoul derbes wrote:
>
> In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
> Joe R. <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> >wrote:
> >
> >> Said david raoul derbes in comp.os.linux.advocacy;
> >> [...]
> >>
> >> >So long as a good education is within reach by essentially all of our
> >> >kids, it is largely immaterial to me how it's accomplished.
> >>
> >> I see that as the reason vouchers are bad on the very face of it. They
> >> are, inherently, skimming the cream of the crop away from the community
> >> schools.
> >
> >As usual, you're presenting your left wing beliefs as if they were some
> >sort of gospel truth.
> >
> >There are an equal number of people who claim that vouchers make it
> >_more_ likely for a lower income person to get a good education. After
> >all, the wealthy can afford tuition even without a tax break. Vouchers
> >might be the only way for some lower income people to get to the private
> >school.
>
> I think that this at present is true. Vouchers would almost certainly
> make it possible for some kids to get out of a public school and into
> a private school. And that seems to me a good thing.
>
> But a better thing would be to make the public schools at least as
> good as the private schools. I believe, perhaps naively, that this
How do you propose to do this without a wholesale slaughter of the
current administrators (who have brought about the current fucked
up conditions in the first place)....
> can be done; and even more naively, that it isn't simply a matter of
> money. Money will be needed, no doubt, but more essential is the
What part of:
"Most public schools spend MORE MONEY per pupil than private schools"
do you not understand?
> education of the parents, and the political will to do what's best
> for the kids.
>
> I share T. Max's fear that a voucher system could ruin even the good
The only thing we have to fear is fear itself.
> inner city public schools if not carefully planned; in particular, I
> do not want any voucher system to take money from the public schools.
>
> Look, a number of people (e.g., George Will) argue very persuasively
> that competition is good. I agree with this. I think most of us would
> agree that the public schools are, at present, losing this competition.
> Now, if money is take from the public schools and given to the private
> schools, is that really going to make the competition tighter? I think
> it is the equivalent of forcing the weaker athelete to wear weighted
> shoes.
>
> I have no objection to vouchers, provided it doesn't take money from
> the public schools. At the same time, I'd work on educating the parents
On what basis do you argue that if 25% of a student body goes off
to private schools that the public school should have the same budget?
> into how to build up and support the public schools in their neighborhoods.
> In Chicago, the local School Councils are now hard-fought political
> positions, and the Chicago public schools are improving very dramatically.
>
> >What a voucher system does is separate those people who care about their
> >kids' education from those who don't.
>
> But the kids should not be punished with an inferior education because
> their parents are ignorant or thoughtless. Let's spend the money,
> educate the parents, and make sure every citizen realizes how important
> a solid high school education is to our children and our society.
>
> Wouldn't it be easier in both the short and the long run to spend the
> money for the first eighteen years, in better schools, than the last
> fifty-two, for a prison cell?
>
> Teacher salaries are not that terrible any more (mine's just fine,
> thank you.) But the schools need money for buildings, for equipment,
> for books. And the government needs to "raise the consciousness" of
> disenfranchised parents. Joe's "people who don't care about their
> kids' education" are very much in evidence. They need to be turned
> around.
>
> David Derbes [[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
>
> >
> >If demand for private schools exceeds available space, more schools will
> >be created.
> >
> >--
> >Regards,
> >
> >Joe R.
--
Aaron R. Kulkis
Unix Systems Engineer
ICQ # 3056642
I: "Having found not one single carbon monoxide leak on the entire
premises, it is my belief, and Willard concurs, that the reason
you folks feel listless and disoriented is simply because
you are lazy, stupid people"
J: Loren Petrich's 2-week stubborn refusal to respond to the
challenge to describe even one philosophical difference
between himself and the communists demonstrates that, in fact,
Loren Petrich is a COMMUNIST ***hole
A: The wise man is mocked by fools.
B: "Jeem" Dutton is a fool of the pathological liar sort.
C: Jet plays the fool and spews out nonsense as a method of
sidetracking discussions which are headed in a direction
that she doesn't like.
D: Jet claims to have killfiled me.
E: Jet now follows me from newgroup to newsgroup
...despite (D) above.
F: Neither Jeem nor Jet are worthy of the time to compose a
response until their behavior improves.
G: Unit_4's "Kook hunt" reminds me of "Jimmy Baker's" harangues against
adultery while concurrently committing adultery with Tammy Hahn.
H: Knackos...you're a retard.
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