Linux-Advocacy Digest #127, Volume #29 Fri, 15 Sep 00 16:13:07 EDT
Contents:
Re: Sun cannot use Java for their servers!! ("Ermine Todd")
Re: End-User Alternative to Windows
Re: The internet was built on WIndow 95? (was Re: How low can they go...?) ("Ermine
Todd")
Re: Linux to reach NT 3.51 proportions in next 2 years
Re: The internet was built on WIndow 95? (was Re: How low can they go...?)
Re: "Real Unix" Vs Linux ("Robert S.")
Re: GPL & freedom (Brian Langenberger)
Re: Anonymous Wintrolls and Authentic Linvocates - Re: R.E. Ballard
says Linux growth stagnating
Re: Anonymous Wintrolls and Authentic Linvocates - Re: R.E. Ballard
says Linux growth stagnating (Roberto Alsina)
Re: Id Software developer prefers OS X to Linux, NT ("Joe R.")
Re: GPL & freedom (Zenin)
Re: End-User Alternative to Windows (RogerB)
Re: Id Software developer prefers OS X to Linux, NT (dc)
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: "Ermine Todd" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Sun cannot use Java for their servers!!
Date: Fri, 15 Sep 2000 12:00:30 -0700
Crossposted-To:
comp.lang.java.advocacy,comp.lang.java.programmer,comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
"Nik Simpson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:xCUv5.10791$[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
>
> "lyttlec" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> > Ermine Todd III wrote:
> > In otherwords SuperRoot held by MS and its "trusted" partners. Otherwise
> > you couldn't apply service packs which, on occasion, do replace SYSTEM
> > functionality.
Let's be clear ... this IS NOT WHAT I WROTE. The above is what "lyttlec"
wrote in an attempt to misquote me.
>
> Bullshit. If something cannot be loaded/unloaded through the normal
> mechanisms then you have to reboot for the change to take effect. In other
> words if foo.sys is soemthing that can't be stopped and started on a
running
> system, the SP install renames foo.sys to foo.sys.old and puts a new
version
> of foo.sys on the disk which is loaded during a reboot. No need for any
> magin "SuperRoot" except in your limited imagination.
>
>
> >For MS service packs to *do* anything, they have to have
> > access at a higher level than granted to administrator. Getting that
> > access does not require the presence of a live human being, just putting
> > a disk in the CD.
>
AGAIN, Let's be clear ... this IS NOT WHAT I WROTE. The above is what
"lyttlec" wrote in an attempt to misquote me.
> Again, more spurious bullshit from somebody who clearly doesn't understand
> NT any better than he/she understands the fundamentals of operating system
> design.
>
>
> --
> Nik Simpson
>
>
--ET--
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ()
Crossposted-To: alt.os.linux,comp.os.linux.misc
Subject: Re: End-User Alternative to Windows
Date: Fri, 15 Sep 2000 19:17:34 GMT
On Fri, 15 Sep 2000 18:33:04 GMT, [EMAIL PROTECTED] <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:
>
> Microsoft's "lead" was miniscule compared to the amount of
> time they sandbagged on fully exploiting the 386 architecture
> or delivering a viable GUI.
Really. I was happily using os/2, with 32 bit pre-emptive multithreading
multitasking it's wonderfull WPS GUI while mickysoft users were using that
pathetic windoze 3.1 running a top dos with nearly nonexistant
multitasking. OS/2 ran dos sessions in V8086 boxes well enough to fool
a windoze 3.1 instalation to run win31 apps perfectly except those that
had to bypass all the microsoft crap and talk directly to the hardware like
communications programs.
7 years later and MS is finally getting around to dumping DOS, but needs
16 times the processor and memory to achive the same results.
Not impressed.
------------------------------
From: "Ermine Todd" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: The internet was built on WIndow 95? (was Re: How low can they go...?)
Date: Fri, 15 Sep 2000 12:13:28 -0700
Crossposted-To:
comp.lang.java.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
That was a good one. I thought I still had my copy but it seems to have
disappeared from my archives. Bummer.
--ET--
"lyttlec" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> The Ghost In The Machine wrote:
> >
> > In comp.os.linux.advocacy, Simon Cooke
> > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > wrote
> > on Wed, 13 Sep 2000 09:20:01 GMT
> > <5FHv5.75675$[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
> > >
> > >"Erik Funkenbusch" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> > >news:nVEv5.1237$[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> > >> "Aaron R. Kulkis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> > >> news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> > >> > Actually, EVERYTHING you now see on the internet was FIRST
developed on
> > >> > Unix.
> > >>
> > >> It was? I wasn't aware that TCP/IP was first developed on Unix
(hint: it
> > >> wasn't). I wasn't aware that routers were first developed on Unix
(they
> > >> weren't).
> > >
> > >And I'm pretty damn sure that the first widely distributed porn was in
print
> > >form...
> >
> > French postcard form, maybe. :-) I do have some pictures of naked
> > ladies constructed entirely out of ASCII characters, though -- if I
> > can find them. (Yeah, like anyone would care anymore, what with
> > the plethora of naked ladies constructed from GIF and JPEG pixels,
> > and animated movies! :-) :-) )
> >
> > >
> > >Simon
> > >
> > >
> >
> > --
> > [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- Porn? :-) 8-) 8-)~~ What porn?
> Remember the life sized one of the lady on the bar stool? I think we
> wore out a couple of Displaywriters printing that one.
------------------------------
From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: Linux to reach NT 3.51 proportions in next 2 years
Date: Fri, 15 Sep 2000 10:14:36 -0700
Reply-To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> On Sat, 09 Sep 2000 16:35:43 GMT, Chad Myers <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:
> >http://www.linuxdevices.com/news/NS7572420206.html
> >It's sad, really. It's sad that they bash on Microsoft for
> >the same things they try to emulate (and do a shitty job
> >of, BTW).
>
> Some of us Linux users will quite willingly criticize KDE
> for going down that "buggy uber app as default user shell"
> garden path...
Those of us Linux users who many not care for a particular environment may
select another. With Linux we can select any of a large number of
environment that we please. At least as long as we remain alert to attempts
to lock Linux into just one environment.
------------------------------
From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
comp.lang.java.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: The internet was built on WIndow 95? (was Re: How low can they go...?)
Date: Fri, 15 Sep 2000 10:41:18 -0700
Reply-To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Ingemar Lundin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:HFkw5.1400$[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> <GASP> and it gets even more FUTILE.....
>
> /IL
>
>
> <> I don't know where or when you *think* you are but in the real world,
> this
> > is still the 20th until the end of this year.
In that case, use correct terminology and you would not have that problem.
If you make such inaccurate statements as 2000 A.D. as being a part of the
21st century, then you are undermining the percieved credibility of the rest
of your statements.
------------------------------
From: "Robert S." <@>
Crossposted-To: comp.unix.admin
Subject: Re: "Real Unix" Vs Linux
Date: Fri, 15 Sep 2000 19:40:39 GMT
Perhaps one day people will learn not to include the text of the post they
are trying to answer in the very answer so that we don't have to scroll our
eyes to much!
Here is the programming formula of all of this thread:
UNIX = SCO
Solaris < SCO (SCO owns copyright)
Commercial Unixes <= SCO
Linux < Commercial Unixes
DO until Mind = nothing
IF home use THEN Linux
IF workstation THEN Linux
IF Server then Solaris
IF ISP provider than SCO (hope I'm right)
ELSE do what you want
LOOP
Forced to learn DOS since I started my Computer Tech. school
I felt kind of DOSperate to learn all those commands which soon
gave me a real sense of power. Batch there is more to it!
My first day I started with MS Windows. I saw no light through that
windows. All the GUIs where having fun and me... studying computer.
When I felt DOSperate enought I went for a Hard drive and walk a
few Blocks, looking for Open architectures, 'cause I have a little
Clusterfobia.
Today I am trying to learn Unixware and I feel the world is falling on me.
Forwardslashes, filesystems, clusters, boot sectors, DNSs, permissions,
submissions, compression, ce piscio, IP, SNMP,
mounting, counting, logging, bugging and all the crabbing is
all falling over on me.
Now these people trying to argue over Linux and over Unix seams to me
its worthed toonies.
I really think that is horrendo
'cause I don't got no sentimento
Throw away PC and buy Nintendo
and put an end to this tormento.
------------------------------
From: Brian Langenberger <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
comp.lang.java.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: GPL & freedom
Date: 15 Sep 2000 19:41:34 GMT
In comp.os.linux.advocacy Zenin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
<snip>
: But the really sad part is that it doesn't even really give it to
: you, it takes them away from you as well because the GPL is a double
: edged sward. -Now with my code mixed with your code, "we've" lost
: any and all "right" or "freedom" to use our own code as we see fit.
: We are now BOTH hostages of the GPL, our code forever infested with
: the GPL.
Uh, no. The code is copyrighted to both authors and released under
the GPL license. Assuming no other code is present, if both (all)
authors agree to change the license, they're free to do so.
The GPL removes the freedom of the extender to release the
extendee's code under a more restrictive license without getting
permission. If the extender doesn't like it, he is still free to
extract the GPL'ed code and replace it with his own, thus
taking copyright on the whole work.
Asserting that the GPL is stripping away freedoms is pure FUD
since coders are always free to not use code released under the
GPL and release it (or not) under any license they want.
------------------------------
From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: Anonymous Wintrolls and Authentic Linvocates - Re: R.E. Ballard
says Linux growth stagnating
Date: Fri, 15 Sep 2000 12:34:35 -0700
Reply-To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Roberto Alsina <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:00091514175300.03276@pc03...
> El vie, 15 sep 2000, [EMAIL PROTECTED] escribió:
> >Roberto Alsina <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> >news:00091510525300.02676@pc03...
> >> El jue, 14 sep 2000, [EMAIL PROTECTED] escribió:
> >> >Roberto Alsina <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> >> >>
> >> >> I am not saying there is no other connection. If you know of another
> >> >> one, say what it is. It's probably as small as the search form.
> >> >
> >> >You stated that MieTerra sells KDE T-shirts. What becomes of the
profits
> >> >from the sales of those T-shirts?
> >>
> >> I don't know. Usually these kind of things put a percentage away as
> >> donation to KDE e.V. Now, if you know, why not say it? As I said,
> >> I am not here to do your research.
> >
> >Both correct and incorrect.
> >
> >On http://www.kde.org/kde-stuff.html it is stated: "This T-shirt and
other
> >KDE designs are offered by MieTerra. Half of the profits from the selling
of
> >these T-shirts will be donated to the KDE project." Besides the T-shirts
> >from MieTerra that page also lists the following merchandise; "Konqi, the
> >KDE Mascot (stuffed toy)", "The Koffee mug", and "Mouse pad" sold by
> >Freiberg Net. There is no such statement on kde-stuff.html reguarding
> >shareing of proceds from the sale of that merchandise. Freiberg Net is
not
> >listed on http://www.kde.org/thanks or as sponsor on
> >http://www.kde.org/credits.html
> >
> >So the only such merchandise listed as providing a financial benefit to
KDE
> >is the T-shirts by MieTerra. On their page
> >http://www.mieterra.com/cgi-bin/store/web_store.cgi it is stated "Keep in
> >mind that your purchase supports KDE, since MieTerra will contribute half
of
> >all profits on MieT-shirt sales to KDE. Even more reason to proudly wear
the
> >KDE colors!" and "Your purchase of this inspirational shirt will support
> >KDE, too: MieTerra will contribute 50% of profits on sales of these
> >MieT-shirts to KDE."
> >
> >
> >The KDE project Official Representatives page
> >http://www.kde.org/representatives.html lists you as a regional official
> >representitive of KDE for South America with the following contact
> >information.
> >
> >South America
> >Roberto Alsina
> >Juan del Campillo 3075 Dto 44
> >Santa Fe
> >Argentina
> >Postal code: 3000
> >Phone: +54(42)558520
> >[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> >
> >As an offical representative you are expected to be (according to the
page
> >"authors of articles about the KDE project, interview partners or
speakers,
> >please contact a representative listed below. " So, you should be used
to
> >being asked questioning about KDE.
>
> Ok, is this an interview, are you contacting me to speak, do you want to
be a
> partner, or are you writing an article?
>
> BTW: I don't see c.o.l.a listed as a way to contact a representative.
>
> > In this light none of the questioning
> >was out-of-line and expecting complete and accurate answers from you is
not
> >unreasonable. Expecting you to have those answers or being able to
aquire
> >those answers is also not unreasonable.
>
> If you want me to act as a representative, contact me in the ways
mentioned
> in the page. This is all personal, here in this group.
What do you mean by "This is all personal, here in this group"?
------------------------------
From: Roberto Alsina <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: Anonymous Wintrolls and Authentic Linvocates - Re: R.E. Ballard
says Linux growth stagnating
Date: Fri, 15 Sep 2000 16:51:28 -0300
El vie, 15 sep 2000, [EMAIL PROTECTED] escribió:
>Roberto Alsina <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
>> If you want me to act as a representative, contact me in the ways
>mentioned
>> in the page. This is all personal, here in this group.
>
>What do you mean by "This is all personal, here in this group"?
That all I write is personal, not in behalf of KDE.
--
Roberto Alsina (KDE developer, MFCH)
------------------------------
From: "Joe R." <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: Id Software developer prefers OS X to Linux, NT
Date: Fri, 15 Sep 2000 19:45:56 GMT
In article
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, dc
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> On Fri, 15 Sep 2000 18:35:24 GMT, Rob Barris <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> wrote:
>
> >In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, Sandman
> ><[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >
> >> In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, Rob
> >> Barris
> >> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >>
> >> > > Stop playing games. You said NeXTStep (AKA OPENSTEP/Mach) uses a
> >> > > BSD
> >> > > kernel. It does not. It uses the Mach kernel. It does use BSD
> >> > > Utilities just like OS X. In fact OS X is just that, NeXT with a
> >> > > candy
> >> > > colored shell.
> >> >
> >> > NeXT couldn't run MS Office, or Adobe Photoshop.
> >>
> >> And niether can MacOSX as of yet. It does do it in a emulated
> >> environment,
> >> something easily achieved on the NeXT platofrm aswell.
> >
> >
> > But even NeXT never got full blown commitment from big vendors like
> >MS and Adobe. Getting them to do Carbonized apps (example, Mac Office
> >2001) is a political victory, being able to run their old ones
> >transparently is a technical one. Apple has both, NeXT had neither.
>
> Except that Apple *doesn't* have both - Office 2001 is a pure 9.04 app
> - not Carbon.
I suspect that's true.
But since Office 2001 will run on OS X, the original statement is
true---even if you believe Microsoft is lying (again) when they say that
they're going to Carbonize Office 2001.
------------------------------
From: Zenin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
comp.lang.java.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: GPL & freedom
Date: Fri, 15 Sep 2000 19:45:35 GMT
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
: Zenin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>snip<
:> The GPL's idea of "alterations" and "enhancements" is farther
:> reaching then common sense would otherwise dictate.
:
: Then common sense is flawed.
:
: It is quite easy to use software to create "barbed wire" fences on
: the "open plains". Free Software seeks to limit this. There is real
: value in this sort of policy.
...by creating barbed wire fences with infectious and deceptive
licenses instead. Oh gee, that's much better. :-P
>snip<
:> If Oracle's SQL*Plus were to use the GNU readline library, without
:> "altering" it in any way would SQL*Plus then be an "enhancement" of
:> the readline library?
:
: No, it would be a derivative work.
That's the problem; it wouldn't be in the slightest, except as
deceptively redefined by GPL terms.
: That is why most libraries are not licenced with the GPL and why GNU
: readline is an aberration that primarily exists as an isolated
: example for people such as yourself.
Perhaps you should seek to relieve RMS of his mental block then, as
the current position of RMS and the FSF is that the LGPL should not
be used for anything, least of all libraries. The rational given is
quite direct and clear; to infect as much code as possible with the
GPL. It has nothing to do with freedom, it has to do with power and
control; or rather an author's lack of such with regards to their
OWN work.
The GPL in effect isn't nearly as evil as the massive amounts of
deception and flat out lies that go with it.
I am amused however, to see that the GPL is somehow too good to use
the GPL itself, the copyright on the GPL of course strictly denying
any and all modifications period. Even if one wanted to keep the
license intact and simply remove the piece of unrelated bullshit of
a preamble, they can't, period. So much for "freedom"...
--
-Zenin ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) From The Blue Camel we learn:
BSD: A psychoactive drug, popular in the 80s, probably developed at UC
Berkeley or thereabouts. Similar in many ways to the prescription-only
medication called "System V", but infinitely more useful. (Or, at least,
more fun.) The full chemical name is "Berkeley Standard Distribution".
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (RogerB)
Crossposted-To: alt.os.linux,comp.os.linux.misc
Subject: Re: End-User Alternative to Windows
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Fri, 15 Sep 2000 19:51:46 GMT
Try turning on a computer in a computer stores. I'm sure you'll find
all the flavors under the rainbow.
On Fri, 15 Sep 2000 13:29:19 -0500, [EMAIL PROTECTED]
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>On Fri, 15 Sep 2000 17:59:34 GMT, [EMAIL PROTECTED] (RogerB) wrote:
>
>> Crap. For years Ms has been the only produce because
>>the stores sell nothing else.
>
>Bull shit. There has *never* been a time when MS didn't have
>any competition. Claiming "they only came out on top because
>the stores sell nothing else" is as stupid as the crap Ray Lopez
>screams about how linux is useless. Lets stick to reality.
>
>
>
>--
>Stephen Whitis
>Email replies should go to...
>scw120198 (at) whitis.com
>
>The address in the header is not valid.
------------------------------
From: dc <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: Id Software developer prefers OS X to Linux, NT
Date: Fri, 15 Sep 2000 15:07:59 -0500
On Fri, 15 Sep 2000 19:45:56 GMT, "Joe R." <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:
>In article
><[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, dc
><[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
>> On Fri, 15 Sep 2000 18:35:24 GMT, Rob Barris <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>> wrote:
>>
>> >In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, Sandman
>> ><[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>> >
>> >> In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, Rob
>> >> Barris
>> >> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>> >>
>> >> > > Stop playing games. You said NeXTStep (AKA OPENSTEP/Mach) uses a
>> >> > > BSD
>> >> > > kernel. It does not. It uses the Mach kernel. It does use BSD
>> >> > > Utilities just like OS X. In fact OS X is just that, NeXT with a
>> >> > > candy
>> >> > > colored shell.
>> >> >
>> >> > NeXT couldn't run MS Office, or Adobe Photoshop.
>> >>
>> >> And niether can MacOSX as of yet. It does do it in a emulated
>> >> environment,
>> >> something easily achieved on the NeXT platofrm aswell.
>> >
>> >
>> > But even NeXT never got full blown commitment from big vendors like
>> >MS and Adobe. Getting them to do Carbonized apps (example, Mac Office
>> >2001) is a political victory, being able to run their old ones
>> >transparently is a technical one. Apple has both, NeXT had neither.
>>
>> Except that Apple *doesn't* have both - Office 2001 is a pure 9.04 app
>> - not Carbon.
>
>I suspect that's true.
>
>But since Office 2001 will run on OS X, the original statement is
>true---even if you believe Microsoft is lying (again) when they say that
>they're going to Carbonize Office 2001.
The counterpoint is true as well:
>> >> And niether can MacOSX as of yet. It does do it in a emulated
>> >> environment,
>> >> something easily achieved on the NeXT platofrm aswell.
------------------------------
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